Travelling to Canada on a valid PR card, but not meeting 730 days rule

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi,

My mother is a Canadian PR and has a valid PR card due to expire in June 2015. She has not been able to meet the 730 days rule as she has been in and out of Canada for the last 4 years and has been in the country for only about a couple of months in total. She last travelled to Canada in 2011. Both her children that is me and my brother are in Canada and hold citizen/resident status. She was recently denied to board the flight to Toronto from the Delhi Airport, was refused to check in by the airline staff.

Is this correct?

Hope for a quick response!

Thank you,
Gauri

 

[Msafiri]

All the airline cares about is that she can be admitted into Canada by immigration. Presenting a valid PR Card is more than good enough. Who exactly denied her boarding -the check in agent? The check in supervisor? Why did she not get the airline duty manager involved? Even if there a was a visa post liaison officer (CIC staff) at the airport they can't review her RO at the airport. An RO review requires paperwork and/or detailed discussion about absences. Your situation doesn't add up sorry unless there is something you haven't stated?

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi,

Thank you for the response!

I know the story doesn't add up and that's the reason why I am really surprised at this turn of events about 2 hours ago.

This was Austrian airlines, at the Delhi Airport, just when my mum was entering the check in queue, the agent came to check her documents. My mum was caught off guard and didn't question him much, apparently he was very rude as well. All that he said was that her PR is expired [even though the card is valid until next year], and wrote on the ticket print out 'Off-load'. What can be done about this now?

 

[Msafiri]

1. Contact the Airline Duty Manager (there is always one at the airport) and explain the situation including providing names, dates and times. No one knows what was going through the agent's mind though in some countries they hassle you for bribes at exit (especially if you are travelling to a developed country) and it may be your mother was targeted. It could also be sheer incompetence but that's the airline's problem you want this resolved.

2. Do you want to use the same airline or do you want your money back and to take your business elsewhere? This will provide some direction when you make the call.

 

[PMM]

Hi

1. Contact the Airline Duty Manager (there is always one at the airport) and explain the situation including providing names, dates and times. No one knows what was going through the agent's mind though in some countries they hassle you for bribes at exit (especially if you are travelling to a developed country) and it may be your mother was targeted. It could also be sheer incompetence but that's the airline's problem you want this resolved.

2. Do you want to use the same airline or do you want your money back and to take your business elsewhere? This will provide some direction when you make the call.

$ to donuts, it was a CBSA officer that determined that she hadn't met her PR obligations, you know they are at Delhi Airport checking departing passengers for Canada?

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Thanks again!

I just spoke with the Airline customer care in Toronto and have been told to get a letter from the Canadian immigration department. Will this be easy to get? How long would they take to respond if I send them an email now?

My mom has some connecting flights from Toronto, and I am not sure what to do with these bookings!

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi


$ to donuts, it was a CBSA officer that determined that she hadn't met her PR obligations, you know they are at Delhi Airport checking departing passengers for Canada?

Sorry, not sure I get that. Please explain.

 

[gauri.gupta08]

I just spoke with the local Airline staff at the Delhi Airport and have been informed that this is the Vienna Border Police that checks the travel documents for all passengers. Is this even possible?

 

[Msafiri]

Hi


$ to donuts, it was a CBSA officer that determined that she hadn't met her PR obligations, you know they are at Delhi Airport checking departing passengers for Canada?

Not usually one to question you given your solid immigration background but if I may - Under what section of the IRPA/ IRPA regs is this authorized? Why wasn't a sec 44 report prepared? No report implies a pass on the RO? Also PRs with a valid PR Card (which is the very same status document the law says is for travel purposes giving presumptive proof of PR status) can't be denied a return to Canada by the liaison officer (they would be acting illegally) unless their PR is revoked which takes due process so why should CIC if its the case be allowed to circumvent immigration laws by 'suggesting' airlines deny boarding. Surely they could have just flagged her for inspection upon arrival in Canada with a referral to Secondary for the sec 44 paperwork to be done.

Doesn't seem the passenger was actually questioned about her immigration situation...as it seems someone just decided not to board her based on a 'travel document' i.e. PR Card issue which if its valid doesn't make sense. My take is CBSA liaison officers check more on documentation authenticity and validity vis a vis the presenting passenger e.g. if document belongs to the actual traveler, if the document and visa are genuine as cross referenced with database of visas issued by CIC etc. CBSA would then keep the fake document.

Until the OP confirms if the PR Card was taken away still unclear. Maybe the PR mother was under report and it was effected by a lack of appeal but OP would have stated so.

I just spoke with the local Airline staff at the Delhi Airport and have been informed that this is the Vienna Border Police that checks the travel documents for all passengers. Is this even possible?

Indian passport holders don't need a transit visa for Austria (if not leaving the transit area read airport) so why would Vienna border officials have an issue with this given she had a valid PR Card? Unless this is an exemption/concessionary immigration policy and they can still bounce you if they think you will not be leaving. She should ask for a refund and go to a different airline...why waste time with an airline that acts as if they are Canadian immigration. Who did she use before when she had a smooth travel process? Does she still have her PR Card or was this taken and if so by whom?

 

[rajmalhotra7]

I just spoke with the local Airline staff at the Delhi Airport and have been informed that this is the Vienna Border Police that checks the travel documents for all passengers. Is this even possible?

Did your mother show her PR card to the officer, so called Vienna Border Police Officer. There could be a possibility that who so ever was the officer saw your Mother's passport and noticed that there is no valid visa on it and denied boarding.

You can buy another ticket for your mother and if possible travel with her (yourself or your brother). because once she gets to Canada she may have hard time at immigration due to non-compliance of RO.

 

[PMM]

Hi

Not usually one to question you given your solid immigration background but if I may - Under what section of the IRPA/ IRPA regs is this authorized? Why wasn't a sec 44 report prepared? No report implies a pass on the RO? Also PRs with a valid PR Card (which is the very same status document the law says is for travel purposes giving presumptive proof of PR status) can't be denied a return to Canada by the liaison officer (they would be acting illegally) unless their PR is revoked which takes due process so why should CIC if its the case be allowed to circumvent immigration laws by 'suggesting' airlines deny boarding. Surely they could have just flagged her for inspection upon arrival in Canada with a referral to Secondary for the sec 44 paperwork to be done.

Doesn't seem the passenger was actually questioned about her immigration situation...as it seems someone just decided not to board her based on a 'travel document' i.e. PR Card issue which if its valid doesn't make sense. My take is CBSA liaison officers check more on documentation authenticity and validity vis a vis the presenting passenger e.g. if document belongs to the actual traveler, if the document and visa are genuine as cross referenced with database of visas issued by CIC etc. CBSA would then keep the fake document.

Until the OP confirms if the PR Card was taken away still unclear. Maybe the PR mother was under report and it was effected by a lack of appeal but OP would have stated so.
Indian passport holders don't need a transit visa for Austria (if not leaving the transit area read airport) so why would Vienna border officials have an issue with this given she had a valid PR Card? Unless this is an exemption/concessionary immigration policy and they can still bounce you if they think you will not be leaving. She should ask for a refund and go to a different airline...why waste time with an airline that acts as if they are Canadian immigration. Who did she use before when she had a smooth travel process? Does she still have her PR Card or was this taken and if so by whom?

1. The PR card was taken away.
2. If a CBSA officer on pre-board check-in determines that a passenger hasn't met their PR residency, they would inform the airline that is the officer's opinion that person is not in compliance. It is the airlines choice whether to board the person or not.
3. The CBSA officer would also refer the person to the CHC and tell them to apply for a TD.
4. Thats the way it is supposed to happen.
5. If the airline decided to board the passenger, then the officer would inform the Port of Entry by way of a "look out" in Caips.

 

[Msafiri]

1. So CBSA are effectively 'circumventing' the right of PRs with valid PR Cards to reach Canada's borders by telling airlines who they think they should or should not board? Why bother if they can report the PR at POE arrival?

2. Under what authority does CBSA have the right to take the PR Card if it is validly held? Until there is a hearing the PR can travel in and out of Canada as he/she pleases no matter how much this annoys CIC so by taking the PR Card are CBSA not acting beyond the law and impacting the PRs right of entry to Canada right especially if there is no sec 44 report and as such apparently no legal basis other than a suspicion that the RO has been breached? For all we know the courts may deem PR has been retained if there are H&C grounds.

The OPs info is as we sometimes see in the forum is piecemeal with not all the detail provided...for example there is nowhere mentioned the PR Card was taken but you state it was so you know presumably via pm? Oh well there is always re-entry via a US land border as an option.

 

[gauri.gupta08]

Hi both,

Thank you for your expert comments , they are extremely valuable.

Just a couple of more points from my side to shed more light:
-Her PR Card was not taken away. She showed her PR card and the agent said that there is some new rule according to which she can travel on PR status only if she travels to Canada every year and since she last traveled to Canada in 2011, she cannot use PR status and needs a separate visa to fly. Have you heard of something like this before?
-When I called the Austrian airline's local office in Delhi, they told me that this was Austrian Border Police that checks passengers and makes these decisions. Austrian Airlines has no role to play. I do not understand this one bit. They said they cannot give any clarifications, and if I need any, I should contact the Austrian Border Police.
-When I called Lufthansa in Toronto (the ticket was booked originally thru Lufthansa and was unfortunately a code share with Austrian Airways), they say in the notes of the itinerary it is mentioned by Austrian Airlines, that she was not allowed to travel due to a visa issue.

Honestly, to me it looks like this is some sort of a local scam, and the airline was probably looking for a soft target. Has something like this been reported elsewhere?

 

[hobbes]

All this is very strange. No, this has never been reported here, but pretty much invalidates a lot of stuff that is being said on this forum.

 

[Msafiri]

All this is very strange. No, this has never been reported here, but pretty much invalidates a lot of stuff that is being said on this forum.

What does it exactly invalidate according to you?

To me this appears to be some bravo sierra from the airline check in agents with apparent 'confusion' of first PR validity and travelling to Canada every year (yeah right!) then Austrian 'border' control - I see scam written all over this. To the OP just change airlines. It helps if your mother gets a transit visa in her passport for countries she intends to transit through since some have a concession depending on if PR Card is held, duration of stay etc that not every check in agent knows about or 'conveniently' forgets is operational.