PR Card successfully Renewed - H&C grounds / Not meeting RO

[SuperMarco]

That's definitely one scenario that should be avoided, but from OP's earlier posts I think the concern from OP is more with the risk of getting a section 44(1) report after getting PRTD approved on H&C, landing in Canada, and then applying for a PR card right away while actually starting the process of getting settled in and living in Canada.... (see e.g. https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...-after-approval-of-prtd.772702/#post-10154075 for the theoretical example of a PRTD applied for with H&C, and being approved but without the RC-1 code: edit: you point out a similar risk in https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...or-re-apply-for-pr-card.872869/#post-11074543 ).

I understand now why OP was interested before in doing things like renewing a DL or health card while overseas... because by the time OP is ready to move back, all such IDs would have long expired, so without the ability to safely apply for a PR card for two years, OP might have a hard time coming up with acceptable IDs for different and various everyday life situations.. (though I guess that most non government uses would be happy with just the foreign passport or FP + PRTD, along with one or two pieces of mail as proof of address.)

Excellent summary. Thanks a lot.
- from your first link i understand that if PRTD is coded RC-1, then renewing the PR card once landed is doable without serious fear otherwise best wait to meet the min nb of days.
- from your last point, exact, renewing DL while abroad (not possible) was an option the time to wait for PR card renew.

 

[abff08f4813c]

i found weird that the same administration say yes for PRTD and no for PR card. I understand of course .. that if you land again with PRTD and go back before receiving the PR card, this is a [logical] consequence.

Yes, I too find that weird that (as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ired-need-pr-card-for-msp.714641/post-9076721 ) being even a few days short of 730 may put your PR at risk, even after you'd already been approved for a PRTD. Now, the other post I linked to earlier from dpenabill goes into great detail explaining why the current system is this way (in short, it's possible that the officer handling the PRTD choses to essentially "wave you thru" the same way a CBSA officer at the land border can chose to do for those who fail to meet RO)...

And I don't think that's unreasonable for a case like someone landing on a PRTD just to renew a PR card, then leaving right away and not returning... but for someone who's just landed and is actively trying to settle for good, that's different.

The other issue here is that a valid PRTD isn't a perfect replacement for a valid PR card inside of Canada itself. See the first post of the same thread, https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...-pr-card-expired-need-pr-card-for-msp.714641/ , where that OP can't get MSP (healthcare in BC for those unfamiliar). A valid PRTD or recently expired PR card didn't seem to help, only a valid (unexpired) PR card was accepted.

This is indeed quite weird. If either one of these were not true then there's not really be an issue. To restate, if A) holding a valid PRTD at the time of application for a PR card "exempted" one from the RO as long as one didn't leave Canada while the application was pending, or B) a valid unexpired PRTD was required by law to be accepted everywhere a valid PR card could be used, then there'd not be much of a problem for PR returnees who failed to meet RO but managed to return to Canada.

I think B) might actually be harder to fully address because things like MSP or driver's licenses are decided by the province. So one would have to convince every province separately in order to get this changed everywhere.

(I can also see an argument like this - if a PR returnee has been gone from Canada for so many years, they likely haven't been paying taxes into healthcare, so why should they get a freebie? An appropriate waiting period makes sense here, but two years / 730 days seems rather quite too long.)

It's not the only thing I find weird about PR status in Canada (why is Canada so strict with PR cards when fly, when it's easy to just allow issuing ETAs in the passport for any PR holder to allow them to fly back home? or why is Canada the only country in the world to strip PR from former refugees for reavailment?) but it's definitely a doozy.

 

[armoured]

In fact, i found weird that the same administration say yes for PRTD and no for PR card. I understand of course what you said previously, that if you land again with PRTD and go back before receiving the PR card, this is a critical albeit logical bad consequence. Thank you again.

You continue to overthink and dawdle.

For those with RC-1 code PRTD who apply for PR card upon return, PROBABLY not an issue to apply right away for the PR card /as long as they remain in Canada/. It may take a while, though.

What you keep getting warned about here is you have repeatedly mentioned leaving after coming to Canada because of [things back home or whatever.] That is potentially a VERY large risk. (It's at least somewhat comparable in risk to returning without a PR through USA and then leaving, with or without a PR card app at that point)

But for you at this point, this is all slicing the onion too finely, which is my idiomatic way of saying further thinking is not helping you. Either apply and 'do it', or hire a professional and follow their advice. Staying outside of Canada longer reduces your chances in all respects, and you are not getting any closer to perfect information - indeed, increasing chances that govt policy gets more strict. Perfect information does not exist.

It seems to me it's a least a few years you are posting questions - basically all along the same lines - and chewing the same cud. Further chewing is not refining the dish, nor making it more palatable. Decide.

 

[abff08f4813c]

It seems to me it's a least a few years you are posting questions

Huh, I hadn't realized that it'd been so long. I do recall it going back a few months but I guess I joined the party late.

Either apply and 'do it', or hire a professional and follow their advice.

Decide.

Not sure actually that this is the best advice. From an earlier post https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ads/residency-obligation.870752/post-11064964 (and also in https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...th-1-5-years-left-for-ro.870918/post-11062104 ) OP mentioned that he is caring for a sick relative and that's the reason OP can't come immediately to Canada - this is the cause of the delay.

In fact someone else gave advice to wait on the same thread - see https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ads/residency-obligation.870752/post-11082561 - basically wait until the situation with the sick family member in Europe resolves, and only after then try to enter Canada with H&C (and then don't leave for two years/730 days to make sure RO is met).

The latest post from OP on that thread, which is a few months ago, suggests that if OP were to return to Canada now, OP would still have to travel overseas every couple of months, https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ads/residency-obligation.870752/post-11082689

Perhaps OP could make an H&C case and get a multi-entry PRTD? If that's approved then that's the best case for OP (still some risk but at least a lower risk of getting reported). Otherwise, it seems like rushing to apply now while the family issue remains not fully resolved would compel OP to leave Canada repeatedly prior to meeting RO and put OP's PR at greater risk. Even though waiting longer reduces the odds, OP may be better off waiting...

But agree with the advice to seek a professional. At this point I don't think we have much else to offer but a professional could go into detail on OP's background and situation and thus give more tailored advice, if nothing else. (For example, OP never responded if I asked if OP was the sole family member caring for the sick relative in https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...th-1-5-years-left-for-ro.870918/post-11062128 but OP might be more comfortable sharing this kind of info with a professional representative. )

 

[armoured]

Not sure actually that this is the best advice. From an earlier post https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ads/residency-obligation.870752/post-11064964 (and also in https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...th-1-5-years-left-for-ro.870918/post-11062104 ) OP mentioned that he is caring for a sick relative and that's the reason OP can't come immediately to Canada - this is the cause of the delay.

If that's the case, and is in fact just waiting, then no further refinement to the response is needed.

 

[pursuit]

All,
Today I collected my renewed PR card from IRCC office. I want to share my story here to help whoever else might be in similar situation.

Background
I became a Canadian PR in 2019 when I lived in the US on H1 visa. I travelled to Canada for a day with my COPR letter in 2019 and got the PR card mailed at my address.
Due to unforeseen circumstances I could not move to Canada.

Move to Canada
I finally moved to Canada by road in May 2024 along with my daughter who is an American citizen. (a few days prior to my PR card expiry date).
My plan was to stay in Canada for 2 years and then apply for PR card renewal.
I got 44(1) report at the port of entry.

After the Move
I got my Canadian drivers license and health card within a few days of moving here in May 2024. I found a job in a Aug 2024.

Applications and Attorney experience
In August 2024, I submitted a sponsorship application to sponsor my daughter's PR.

In September 2024, the Minister delegate (MD) called me to say that I have H&C grounds that were not asked about at the point of entry. He offered to drop the 44(1) report if I apply for PR card renewal. He said that IRCC is in a better position than him to make a decision on my H&C grounds.

I hired an attorney who exchanged a few emails with the MD after which he suggested to file for PR card renewal.
Attorney said that since my PR card renewal requires H&C explanation, it would cost much more than a simple PR card renewal.
He quoted a flat fee of $ X for my application, which paid in Full in two-three installments after starting the paperwork with him.

He suggested me to write my reasons for not meeting RO and explanation of H&C grounds that he would review for grammatical error and flow. After a few iterations we had a final draft word document that I signed. And I also provided evidence for each point that I had mentioned in that letter. I also got support letters from various connections in Canada and USA. Meanwhile, I had completed the paperwork to import my car in Canada and get a local title. I submitted a copy of car paperwork also. I have posted that experience here. https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...threads/importing-a-usa-car-in-canada.858467/

Before the submission of my PR card renewal application, the attorney asked for an additional $Y . This $Y was 74% of $X that he had initially quoted as a flat fee. I did not have it in me to fight the attorney because I already had too much else to worry about including a PR card renewal and newcomer settlement issues, etc.
I did request an explanation for extra fees and some reduction because overall they were charging me 174% of the initially quoted prices. He said that it took him more than anticipated time to work on my application, that's why the extra fees. He connected me to his boss who reduce the fee to make the total = 158% of initially quoted amount X.
Still significantly higher but I did not have it in me to fight them. I paid the extra amount and we submitted the application on Nov 30, 2024.


Sponsorship application update
In Feb 2025, I got a response from IRCC on my daughter's sponsorship application. They asked for additional documents that I uploaded. Since the total size of those additional documents was more than the limit, I had to upload them in 3 different chunks keeping each chunk below the 3.5Mb limit.
That experience is posted here

C

Thread 'Uploading additional Documents - Size Limit'

Feb 2, 2025

I had applied for sponsorship of my child few months ago. They just sent me an email requesting additional information.

They asked for 10 things that combine into 211 pages of pdf, size = 17Mb.

I purchase Adobe subscription, used the compression tool to make it 8Mb with the least resolution possible. At this resolution, some pages are blurry but readable when paid attention.

Broke down the pdf into 4 files of 2Mb each because there is a limit of 2Mb per file to upload.

I am getting this error "Upload document – Size of total documents can’t be larger than 3.5 MB. "

Apparently there...

• Canadahelpme123
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Family Class Sponsorship

C

Post in thread 'Case Specific Enquiry'

Feb 11, 2025

Yes, you need to send for this application too as instructed. Do not ignore this request.

Hello scylla - Thank you for your response. In this request, they have asked for "List Absences from Canada ". I have listed my absences in the following format.

From Date	To Date	Status
Date 1	date 2	present in Canada
Date 2	Date 3	absent from Canada
Date 3	Date 4	present in Canada

They have NOT asked for explanation for absences. That is why I...

• Canadahelpme123

Later in the same month they requested medical for my daughter which we submitted.

PR Card renewal update
In April 2025, my attorney forwarded me a letter from IRCC on my PR card renewal application suggesting me to pick up my card from Etobicoke office on May 7th at 10AM.
The wording on the letter is as follows:
"This is a notification that your permanent resident (PR) card has been prepared for you and is available at the IRCC office indicated below for 180 days from the date of this notice."

Even though the letter sounded like I had to just go and pick up, it was not completely straight forward.

I went at the scheduled time of 10 AM today. I was called at the counter around 11AM where the lady said that my application has H&C grounds , so an officer will review and make a decision. She asked for my expired PR card, passport and any other document that I wanted to support my application. There was nothing specific. So I gave her the originals of some of the documents that I had submitted through attorney. I also gave her my lease agreement, job offer letter, paystubs, etc. The lady was nice and friendly. She suggested me to come back at 1:30PM after lunch time.

I went back at 1:30PM.

And officer called me at 2PM.
Officer asked me to explain why I did not meet RO in last 5 years and my H&C grounds.
I explained
She said that she is convinced with my explanation and plan forward to stay in Canada. And suggested to not let this happen again.

She asked me to wait to get my card and documents.

At 2:30PM I got my new PR card and documents back. New PR card is valid for 5 years (until March 2030)

Hope this helps answer questions for others who might be in similar situation.

I appreciate this forum for addressing my queries all along !!

Next I am waiting for my daughter's PR application to be approved.

Thank you all.

Thanks for your detail informations, I have some followup question, i'll in very similar situation, i am in usa, tried moving the job to canada but company has refused to move the job, so I'd coming to canada without job.

kindly responds with my queries. TIA

- How difficult to get PR extension based on H&C
- Some pointers on what could be possible evicence I can present - Can adding kid education, and spouse illness be consider, aging parent, job relocation
- Can showing property in the canada helps?
- What are the chances the PR status will be revoked?
- Can I and spouse file separately to protect the status, my goal to protect my H4 kid
- Should I travel with land border or airlines
- Does hiring attorney helps? money is not an issue but I dont want to spend time in hassling with them

 

[Besram]

Thanks for your detail informations, I have some followup question, i'll in very similar situation, i am in usa, tried moving the job to canada but company has refused to move the job, so I'd coming to canada without job.

kindly responds with my queries. TIA

- How difficult to get PR extension based on H&C
- Some pointers on what could be possible evicence I can present - Can adding kid education, and spouse illness be consider, aging parent, job relocation
- Can showing property in the canada helps?
- What are the chances the PR status will be revoked?
- Can I and spouse file separately to protect the status, my goal to protect my H4 kid
- Should I travel with land border or airlines
- Does hiring attorney helps? money is not an issue but I dont want to spend time in hassling with them

Not enough information to provide meaningful responses.

- There is no "PR extension". You are either a PR, or you are not. If you mean applying for a PRTD or a new PR card with H&C reasons, this is not an easy hurdle to take. Most common advice in the forum for people out of compliance with their RO is to travel to Canada, hope they won't get reported at POE, and then remain in Canada until back in compliance (i.e. up to 2 years). Only then apply for PR card renewal.
- Evidence is based on your situation and depends on the H&C reasons you want to put forward
- Owning property by itself is a weak indication of establishment in Canada. Employment, kids in school, family, etc. are much stronger.
- Impossible to say because you have not posted anything about your situation
- Yes, you and your wife's situation will be assessed independently if you apply for a PRTD. If you make an application at a POE, would recommend you travel separately if this is important to you.
- Can't give advice on land border vs. airport. All things being equal, it doesn't matter. If you don't have a valid PR card anymore, your only option is the land border
- Again, depends on your situation.

Recommend you start a new thread & explain your situation in detail. This will enable forum members to provide more meaningful advice.

 

[abff08f4813c]

Thanks for your detail informations, I have some followup question, i'll in very similar situation, i am in usa, tried moving the job to canada but company has refused to move the job, so I'd coming to canada without job.

That's a shame. Having a job waiting for you in Canada (or at least a job offer) is one of the factors they are allowed to consider, I believe.

- How difficult to get PR extension based on H&C

The general perception is that if you need H&C then it's very difficult. One lawyer reports here that the approval rate is relatively low, https://legalroots.ca/services/pr-card-renewal-and-prtd/

This is why the general recommendation is to try to cross the border and hope to not get reported, and if not reported to avoid interaction with IRCC until the 730 days has passed.

- Some pointers on what could be possible evicence I can present - Can adding kid education, and spouse illness be consider, aging parent, job relocation

Having a kid and ill spouse and aging parent already in Canada, and also having a job waiting for you in Canada, definitely count as evidence. Also as per https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...renewal-for-dependents-not-meeting-ro.876034/ having residential or other community ties helps too.

Not sure if it counts if the kid and spouse and parent are outside of Canada. That might actually hurt instead ("why aren't you giving up on Canada and staying with them to take care of them where they already are?"). It's well known for those who don't have PR but are applying for PR, if a spouse has a disqualifying illness, then the entire family is unable to qualify for PR.

- Can showing property in the canada helps?

Perhaps, my understanding is that this is a tiny tiny factor if it's considered at all.

- What are the chances the PR status will be revoked?

So what happened to OP here is that OP got reported that section 44(1) report. Hard to put a percentage on it, I'd guess it can be in the ballpark of 50/50.

- Can I and spouse file separately to protect the status, my goal to protect my H4 kid

What would you be filing in this case? The sponsorship?

What happened with OP is that OP got reported, and then invited to apply for a PR card renewal. Since OP had been reported anyways, there was no further risk to OP to immediately try and sponsor OP's child. Same story in https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...renewal-for-dependents-not-meeting-ro.876034/

Best case is that you and your spouse enter Canada successfully without getting reported. But then you have to wait the 730 days before trying to renew your PR card.

But in that "best-case" scenario I don't understand what happens with your kid. Aside from US citizens, the best that any foreigner gets is 90 days as a visitor. You could keep trying to get new visitor records for your kid (essentially "renewing" the visitor status), but I'm not sure if IRCC would let you do that for the entire 730 day period, or what your options would be to keep your kid legally in Canada if IRCC denied a renewal.

- Should I travel with land border or airlines

If your PR card is still valid, doesn't matter. The general expectation I think is that the odds are the same at land and airport. (If you don't have a valid PR card though - it's already expired for example - then you probably can't board your flight.)

The general understanding is that if CBSA makes a one-time decision to let you in without reporting vs reporting you when letting you in, the odds here are much better than you asking IRCC for a PR card renewal or a PRTD or sponsorship for your dependents (e.g. child) with H&C reasons. In other words, the impression is that IRCC is much more likely to deny and start the process to revoke your PR than CBSA is.

- Does hiring attorney helps? money is not an issue but I dont want to spend time in hassling with them

It does, if you notice the OP not only hired one but ended up agreeing to pay beyond the original fee - this is how important it is to have a good lawyer involved in cases that need H&C. Also see this really detailed response by dpenabill earlier in this thread expanding on the need to have a good lawyer involved, https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...ds-not-meeting-ro.870718/page-2#post-11101045

- Yes, you and your wife's situation will be assessed independently if you apply for a PRTD. If you make an application at a POE, would recommend you travel separately if this is important to you.

This is an interesting point that I hadn't considered before.

In https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...renewal-for-dependents-not-meeting-ro.876034/ that OP entered separately first without getting reported and then later the OP's wife and kid entered and got the section 44(1) report.

Since this poster is doing this primarily for the kid - I wonder if the presence of the kid makes a difference? As in the spouse who travels with the kid is the one more likely to get reported?

But yeah it seems like in that case one parent has to live outside Canada with the kid for 730 days while the other is stuck in Canada for 730 days, and after the one meets RO then a sponsorship application can be made to IRCC safely.