Travelling to Canada on a valid PR card, but not meeting 730 days rule
- Thread starter gauri.gupta08
- Start date
Hi Gauri
After reading what you wrote i can explain what happened with me. I was in a similar situation last year i.e. 2013. Was unable to meet 730 day rule but still had a valid PR. In one of the CIC documents OP-10 (Permanent Residency Status Determination) i had read that even if a person stays away from Canada for many years and than comes back and stays for 730 days , they will continue to be a PR. So a status is not lost. I took a print out of this document and kept it handy with me.
As i was waiting for my turn to Check In at China Eastern Airlines counter , the girl got furious when she determined that i was not meeting the 730 day rule. Please note she was just an airline rep , not even an immigration officer. I tried explaining her the things , but she took my tickets , put those on hold and told me to get out of the line. After i realized that things turned out of my way , i showed her the documents and asked for her supervisor. He seemed helpful and called CIC directly. They asked for my PR card number over the phone and told them to let me go and i was let off.
The people at Delhi Airport are least sympathetic. So , please ask your mother to take a hard copy of OP-10, just as a reference and also have them call CIC if they have any doubts. As per Law even CBS cannot deny entry , they can report someone , but not deny entry. So , how the hell can a airline representative , without consulting an immigration officer or CIC or their supervisor , not let a person go.
I hope this helped. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks
After reading what you wrote i can explain what happened with me. I was in a similar situation last year i.e. 2013. Was unable to meet 730 day rule but still had a valid PR. In one of the CIC documents OP-10 (Permanent Residency Status Determination) i had read that even if a person stays away from Canada for many years and than comes back and stays for 730 days , they will continue to be a PR. So a status is not lost. I took a print out of this document and kept it handy with me.
As i was waiting for my turn to Check In at China Eastern Airlines counter , the girl got furious when she determined that i was not meeting the 730 day rule. Please note she was just an airline rep , not even an immigration officer. I tried explaining her the things , but she took my tickets , put those on hold and told me to get out of the line. After i realized that things turned out of my way , i showed her the documents and asked for her supervisor. He seemed helpful and called CIC directly. They asked for my PR card number over the phone and told them to let me go and i was let off.
The people at Delhi Airport are least sympathetic. So , please ask your mother to take a hard copy of OP-10, just as a reference and also have them call CIC if they have any doubts. As per Law even CBS cannot deny entry , they can report someone , but not deny entry. So , how the hell can a airline representative , without consulting an immigration officer or CIC or their supervisor , not let a person go.
I hope this helped. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks
Until I see a Federal Court ruling on this or a clause in the IRPA the CBSA liaison officer has no authority to review your RO at the overseas airport (excluding pre-clearance) or deny you onward travel to Canada even if in breach where you hold a valid PR Card. The recommendation to the airline is nothing but bully boy tactics to circumvent the PRs right to due process under the IRPA. If CBSA can tell the POE you are en-route why bother with this unless its some power trip. Board a different airline - the minute the check in agent starts acting like an immigration officer (subject to your paperwork being in order) tell them you want to deal with their boss and when he/she shows up ask them what authority they have to deny you boarding despite you having a valid PR Card?hobbes said:That you can count on getting to the PoE with a valid PR card.
If some CBSA officer at the airport (as mentioned by PMM) determines that I may not meet RO, he can just ask the airline not to board me? Wow!
Just to add the reason this whole pre-check in thing is farcical is that the IRPA has exceptions for absences. So what if I'm a PR accompanying a Canadian Citizen spouse...do I have to show the check in agent my marriage certificate, spouses passport and all other paperwork showing the accompanying timeline? The check in agent ain't no visa officer so he/she should stick with checking my PR card is valid, belongs to me and I have a confirmed booking on the flight...for extra measure as way of good service she/he should wish me a pleasant flight with a smile on their face (helpful if I'm equally as friendly and polite).
That was scary.
A person with a valid status document is presumed to have the status indicated, as per A31(2)(a). Even if a CBSA agent determines that a PR does not satisfy RO, and even if the said PR does not possess a valid PR card, the moment it is validated that the person seeking entry is a PR, the most he can do is file an A44 report, but would still have to let the PR in.
I wonder if the OP's mother would be entitled to some compensation, as this was clearly their blunder. And I wonder if the CBSA will now be more likely to pull her to secondary, and give her a hard time (since the 'visa issue' would have been entered to the file)...
A person with a valid status document is presumed to have the status indicated, as per A31(2)(a). Even if a CBSA agent determines that a PR does not satisfy RO, and even if the said PR does not possess a valid PR card, the moment it is validated that the person seeking entry is a PR, the most he can do is file an A44 report, but would still have to let the PR in.
I wonder if the OP's mother would be entitled to some compensation, as this was clearly their blunder. And I wonder if the CBSA will now be more likely to pull her to secondary, and give her a hard time (since the 'visa issue' would have been entered to the file)...
Thank you for sharing your experience! Wish I had researched this before. Anyhow, now that this whole fiasco has happened, we are keen to go back to the airline and tell them they are wrong instead of booking a fresh ticket (we were not even able to cancel the ticket before the flight took off). I will post back if I have any further questions. Thanks again!JJS said:Hi Gauri
After reading what you wrote i can explain what happened with me. I was in a similar situation last year i.e. 2013. Was unable to meet 730 day rule but still had a valid PR. In one of the CIC documents OP-10 (Permanent Residency Status Determination) i had read that even if a person stays away from Canada for many years and than comes back and stays for 730 days , they will continue to be a PR. So a status is not lost. I took a print out of this document and kept it handy with me.
As i was waiting for my turn to Check In at China Eastern Airlines counter , the girl got furious when she determined that i was not meeting the 730 day rule. Please note she was just an airline rep , not even an immigration officer. I tried explaining her the things , but she took my tickets , put those on hold and told me to get out of the line. After i realized that things turned out of my way , i showed her the documents and asked for her supervisor. He seemed helpful and called CIC directly. They asked for my PR card number over the phone and told them to let me go and i was let off.
The people at Delhi Airport are least sympathetic. So , please ask your mother to take a hard copy of OP-10, just as a reference and also have them call CIC if they have any doubts. As per Law even CBS cannot deny entry , they can report someone , but not deny entry. So , how the hell can a airline representative , without consulting an immigration officer or CIC or their supervisor , not let a person go.
I hope this helped. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks
Yes, we are trying to get in touch with the airline to get some sort of compensation. They are definitely not as approachable as we would like them to be. Also, does seem like my mom may face issues at the Canadian Immigration in Toronto (if she is able to fly), thanks to this whole fiasco.meyakanor said:That was scary.
A person with a valid status document is presumed to have the status indicated, as per A31(2)(a). Even if a CBSA agent determines that a PR does not satisfy RO, and even if the said PR does not possess a valid PR card, the moment it is validated that the person seeking entry is a PR, the most he can do is file an A44 report, but would still have to let the PR in.
I wonder if the OP's mother would be entitled to some compensation, as this was clearly their blunder. And I wonder if the CBSA will now be more likely to pull her to secondary, and give her a hard time (since the 'visa issue' would have been entered to the file)...
Hi again, thank you very very much for your comments. You've been extremely helpful! Could you guide me to some online link owned by the CIC that I could show to the airline to prove them wrong?Msafiri said:Until I see a Federal Court ruling on this or a clause in the IRPA the CBSA liaison officer has no authority to review your RO at the overseas airport (excluding pre-clearance) or deny you onward travel to Canada even if in breach where you hold a valid PR Card. The recommendation to the airline is nothing but bully boy tactics to circumvent the PRs right to due process under the IRPA. If CBSA can tell the POE you are en-route why bother with this unless its some power trip. Board a different airline - the minute the check in agent starts acting like an immigration officer (subject to your paperwork being in order) tell them you want to deal with their boss and when he/she shows up ask them what authority they have to deny you boarding despite you having a valid PR Card?
Just to add the reason this whole pre-check in thing is farcical is that the IRPA has exceptions for absences. So what if I'm a PR accompanying a Canadian Citizen spouse...do I have to show the check in agent my marriage certificate, spouses passport and all other paperwork showing the accompanying timeline? The check in agent ain't no visa officer so he/she should stick with checking my PR card is valid, belongs to me and I have a confirmed booking on the flight...for extra measure as way of good service she/he should wish me a pleasant flight with a smile on their face (helpful if I'm equally as friendly and polite).
Google is your friend type IRPA and go to clause A31(2) - I think you are wasting your time though. Why the big loyalty to an airline that's messing you around. Do you think they will change their mind and say 'we are sorry sir' because they will then have to admit to being wrong in the first place. I'd take my business anywhere but hey to each their own.gauri.gupta08 said:Hi again, thank you very very much for your comments. You've been extremely helpful! Could you guide me to some online link owned by the CIC that I could show to the airline to prove them wrong?
Thanks! Will look that up!Msafiri said:Google is your friend type IRPA and go to clause A31(2) - I think you are wasting your time though. Why the big loyalty to an airline that's messing you around. Do you think they will change their mind and say 'we are sorry sir' because they will then have to admit to being wrong in the first place. I'd take my business anywhere but hey to each their own.
Are you saying I should let all my money go? The ticket was CAD 1400 and because I could not cancel it in time, I have lost all that money. There is no loyalty to the airline whatsoever, but think it's still worth the effort for this kind of money.
Nope I'm not saying that....I'm stating that the airline will likely stall the process to get an alternative flight or refund you...if you are wanting to travel right away then use a different airline as this particular airline won't back down. Ultimately the airline can refuse your business...I just think waiting for them to correct their mistake may delay travel plans but if you are willing to wait then sure why not.gauri.gupta08 said:Thanks! Will look that up!
Are you saying I should let all my money go? The ticket was CAD 1400 and because I could not cancel it in time, I have lost all that money. There is no loyalty to the airline whatsoever, but think it's still worth the effort for this kind of money.
Hi @gauri.gupta08 , What happened later?Thank you for sharing your experience! Wish I had researched this before. Anyhow, now that this whole fiasco has happened, we are keen to go back to the airline and tell them they are wrong instead of booking a fresh ticket (we were not even able to cancel the ticket before the flight took off). I will post back if I have any further questions. Thanks again!