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Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review

Rehman48

Full Member
Sep 12, 2018
36
0
address history in FROM section, i should have wrote the date I got my PR card which was less then 5 years which was 1 October 2013. But instead of writing 1October 2013, I wrote 22 July 2013 from feb2014, I because for a second I though that they are asking for the date we moved in that house. But that’s the only part which was wrong, Is it going to create trouble for me???
Anyways would it be a problem, like would they return the application it’s just a minor mistake?? Can I use webform to inform IRCC when my application is processed after 3 months?

Plus I do complete 1300 residency days

I submitted my application two weeks ago.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,791
1,883
address history in FROM section, i should have wrote the date I got my PR card which was less then 5 years which was 1 October 2013. But instead of writing 1October 2013, I wrote 22 July 2013 from feb2014, I because for a second I though that they are asking for the date we moved in that house. But that’s the only part which was wrong, Is it going to create trouble for me???
Anyways would it be a problem, like would they return the application it’s just a minor mistake?? Can I use webform to inform IRCC when my application is processed after 3 months?

Plus I do complete 1300 residency days

I submitted my application two weeks ago.
I have responded in the other topic where you posted about this:

I do not quite get what you did, but I can offer some observations:

OVERALL: If you are currently in Canada, there should be NOTHING to worry about. You probably just need to wait. Relax and wait. The cake is in the oven. You have been in Canada now for more than two years straight (according to your reporting) and you are thus well in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Odds are all is well. Worst case scenario is you made some mistakes in the application which could trigger a delay in processing. If so, there is nothing you can do now that will avoid that. But that should just be a matter of time. AND, if as you report, you have been in Canada since the latter part of 2015, and your were established in Canada prior to your absence that year, there really should be NO PROBLEM. IRCC can and often does sort out applicant mistakes. IRCC is far more competent and efficient, even when dealing with not-so-competent clients, than many give them credit.


Beyond that:

Inaccurate information does not ordinarily result in the return of an application . . .
 

sunnybh

Hero Member
Dec 11, 2017
476
85
address history in FROM section, i should have wrote the date I got my PR card which was less then 5 years which was 1 October 2013. But instead of writing 1October 2013, I wrote 22 July 2013 from feb2014, I because for a second I though that they are asking for the date we moved in that house. But that’s the only part which was wrong, Is it going to create trouble for me???
Anyways would it be a problem, like would they return the application it’s just a minor mistake?? Can I use webform to inform IRCC when my application is processed after 3 months?

Plus I do complete 1300 residency days

I submitted my application two weeks ago.
As it seems you have recently applied, I would suggest you to withdraw your application and apply afresh with the correction. This will take away all doubts, and moreover will also take away chance of IRCC sending your application for SR. Because if it goes to SR due to a small mistake, then there is no timeline for processing.
As dpenabill has also said - "And compromised credibility can be problematic DEPENDING on the nature and extent of inaccuracies . . . while I do not fully understand what you did, it does NOT appear your mistakes will be a problem.
Gaps in information can result in the return of an application. To what extent a gap in address history might cause IRCC to return the application, I do not know. My sense, just a bit stronger than a guess, is that a gap of months in the address history probably will not cause IRCC to return the application. But I do not know this."
No one here can suggest you accurately, but I have read many cases in various threads here, where the applications were sent for secondary review for small mistakes, and then it takes more than 12 months for processing. IRCC may consider the mistake as misrepresentation also.
With 1300 days of physical presence, you can apply for citizenship directly, and not for PR card renewal unless there is an urgency to travel. And the citizenship application seems to be simpler than PR card renewal application.
 

Bleuxu008

Member
Sep 11, 2018
19
4
Received the email to send additional information today (passport pages + entry/exit proof + proof of residence). Application received Jun 6th and the processing started on Sep 17th. Now wondering if it really takes a whole year to process the additional information!!
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,791
1,883
Received the email to send additional information today (passport pages + entry/exit proof + proof of residence). Application received Jun 6th and the processing started on Sep 17th. Now wondering if it really takes a whole year to process the additional information!!
This will be a LONG POST (TWO long posts actually). The reason for this is to provide an overview of the process if and when a PR's compliance with the Residency Obligation is challenged in the course of IRCC processing an application for a new PR card.

Moreover, this is actually OFF-TOPIC here. This topic is about referrals for Secondary Review. However, this post by @Bleuxu008 does NOT appear to be a referral for Secondary Review. It does, however, reflect a rather common confusion about the relationship between PR RO compliance concerns and referrals to Secondary Review, and offers an opportunity to provide information and analysis that will, I HOPE, better illuminate important aspects of BOTH procedures, that is, the SR process as well as what these posts will focus on: a PR RO compliance determination when IRCC requests additional proof of RO compliance, potentially challenging the PR's compliance.

I have oft emphasized that SR is almost always about something MORE than PR RO compliance EVEN if it was triggered by concerns about PR RO compliance . . . UNLESS it appears the PR is abroad (or headed abroad), in which event in some of these cases IRCC, in effect, as a practical matter, appears to often (not always) make the SR referral so that RO compliance can be addressed and determined when the PR applies for a PR Travel Document or upon arrival at a Canadian PoE. (Note: additionally, sometimes, it appears possible that some SR referrals are somewhat or even largely about WAITING to see whether the PR is in fact settled in Canada, and continues to stay in Canada; my suspicion is this may happen for PRs who are cutting-it-very-close and who appear to not be settled permanently in Canada, and it appears possible they will go outside Canada for such periods of time as to become in breach even if at the time of the PRC application they were technically in compliance.)

IN CONTRAST, which is what @Bleuxu008's situation appears to be, if upon opening a PR card application IRCC perceives a potential and current PR RO compliance issue, IRCC can and typically will initiate procedures to more promptly conduct a Residency Determination. This is NOT a referral to Secondary Review. Indeed, SR referrals go back to the CPC in Sydney. This procedure, conducting a Residency Determination based on requests for additional evidence, is ordinarily referred to and done in the local office (as best I can sort things out . . . recognizing IRCC is less than transparent about these procedures and forum reporting is sporadic, typically sketchy at best).

In any event, @Bleuxu008's situation appears to fit into the procedure for promptly conducting the Residency Determination. Not a referral for SR.

There are obvious reasons why IRCC will promptly proceed with the Residency Determination when it has overt questions about RO compliance. It would be unfair to PRs, for example, to delay a potential decision which terminates the PR's status to live in Canada. Indeed, it would almost be cruel to let the PR go on living and making a life in Canada for many months and then proceed to a decision resulting in a Departure Order and loss of status. Additionally, it is otherwise better practice to address and assess the PR RO as timely as possible. The longer a PR remains in Canada after applying for a new PR card, the more complicated the decision-making can be . . . so long as no departure order has been issued, no 44(1) Report made, the days the PR is in Canada after applying for the new PRC must be considered and COUNTED in deciding whether the PR is inadmissible due to a breach of the PR RO. Those days and the extent of the PR's establishment in Canada during this period MUST also be considered in weighing whether to allow the PR to keep status EVEN IF a breach of the PR RO is found.

Thus, for example, among one of the things that can happen next for @Bleuxu008 is being scheduled for an in-person interview. Technically IRCC's decision about the PRC application is based on presence during the five year period as of the date the application was made. Which is likely to be at least three or four months prior to the date of the interview. Technically, if IRCC determines that as of the date the application was made, the PR was NOT in compliance, the PRC application can be denied. Practically, almost always, IRCC will assess compliance as of the date of the interview and then proceed to a potential negative determination as to the PRC application date, ONLY if the PR is also NOT in compliance as of the interview date. The assessment as of the interview date may be informal, but if the PR is present (that is, the PR's participation is not telephonic from outside Canada) and the PR appears to be in compliance as of the day of the interview, any previous breach of the RO is effectively cured and it would be a waste to deny the PRC application and make the PR apply again, this time in compliance.

The latter is why I sometimes qualify the conventional wisdom to wait a full two years or otherwise until the RO is solidly met, to apply for a new PRC, noting that making the application a little earlier than that has relatively low risks (better to wait, for sure, to reduce risks, since just cutting-it-close already involves significant risks).

In any event, that brings this back to the recent posts by @Bleuxu008, to be further addressed in the next post.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,791
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Continuing discussion from previous post; again, this will be very long.

Received the email to send additional information today (passport pages + entry/exit proof + proof of residence). Application received Jun 6th and the processing started on Sep 17th. Now wondering if it really takes a whole year to process the additional information!!
As previously noted, this does NOT appear to be a referral for Secondary Review. Rather, it looks like this is about compliance with the PR Residency Obligation as of the date you made the application for a new PR card. That is, IRCC is questioning your account of actual presence in Canada during the relevant five years (June 4, 2013 to June 3, 2018), and is requesting documentation to corroborate (prove) your travel history, residence, and thus also your presence in Canada.

This may be little more than a program integrity check, perhaps even random, or perhaps triggered by technical criteria, in which case there should be NO problem so long as you made no misrepresentations, no big mistakes, and you have solidly been in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, and you timely and appropriately respond to the requests.

OR it may have been triggered by overt concerns or even suspicions about you in particular, which if this seems possible (looking at things from the perspective of IRCC), including just the fact of cutting-it-close (if, say, you have spent less than 900 days in Canada between June 4, 2013 and June 3, 2018). The seriousness of this will VARY widely, depending on the specific facts and circumstances and reasons for questions, concerns, or suspicions. Unlike the better-practices approach for the application itself (for which it is prudent to follow the instructions and ONLY SUBMIT specifically what is requested), IF YOU APPREHEND the POSSIBILITY this was triggered BY OVERT CONCERNS (if for example, you have been cutting-it-close), it may be a good idea to lean toward submitting more proof, additional documentation tending to show where you have been living in Canada (including when), what you have been doing in Canada (again, including when), and to verify dates you entered Canada.

If you applied short of meeting the 730 days RO, and especially if your application purports to show you met the RO but in fact you were short, OR there is a significant risk IRCC has reason to suspect misrepresentation or you are currently short of complying with the RO, YOU MAY WANT TO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER SEEING A LAWYER.

What I have to offer is NO SUBSTITUTION for what a competent immigration lawyer can offer. No where near it.


Here is what I can offer about the process going forward:

Depending on the quality and persuasiveness of the documentation you submit, the next step may be:
-- a favourable decision to issue a new PR card, or
-- scheduling an in-person interview in a local IRCC office, to conduct a formal determination of compliance with the RO, or
-- referring the application for further review, that is, a referral for Secondary Review​

There are other possibilities, but one of the above is the most likely next step. How it goes will depend in significant part on what you submit. This is your best opportunity to submit proof of your presence.

IF you reasonably apprehend this was more or less a program integrity check (possibly even random), that is that there is no factual basis for IRCC to have actual concerns about the truthfulness of what you submitted in the application and no reason to have concerns about your compliance with the Residency Obligation, the main thing is to timely make a responsive submission of the requested documents. Thus, for example, if your information was accurate (but for, say, some small errors) and you have been well-settled permanently in Canada for well over two years (and thus have a margin of presence significantly over 800 days), and you are currently living in Canada (even if you often travel abroad for short periods), odds are good there is no reason to worry. Submit a timely response. And wait and watch for further communication from IRCC.

This process does NOT ordinarily take nearly so long as many of those cases which are referred to SR, but will typically take a few months more than the routine process, which will be longer if there is an in-person interview scheduled.

The shortest timeline will happen if the next step is a favourable decision to issue a new PR card. Of course this will only happen if the documentation and information you now submit is deemed credible AND it objectively documents you were actually present in Canada for MORE than 730 days during the period June 4, 2013 to June 3, 2018 (precise dates based on the date you signed the application).

If you are scheduled for an interview that does not necessarily mean your response was inadequate. The interview may be mostly about verifying your information, including your identity and current presence in Canada.

However, if you are scheduled for an interview AND there are potential reasons for IRCC to have overt suspicions, or you are significantly short of compliance (especially if so as of the date the interview is scheduled, that is, in terms of presence during the five years immediately preceding the day of the interview), AGAIN it may be prudent to obtain the assistance of a lawyer.


In particular, IF this request was triggered by overt suspicion:

If this request was triggered by overt suspicion, either about possible misrepresentation, or about how much you were actually in Canada between June 4, 2013 and June 3, 2018, it is fairly likely the next step will be an in-person interview, in large part a procedure to verify the information submitted. How this goes will depend, again, on what you submit, but also on what it is that IRCC has suspicions about.

If you apprehend there could be some substantial concern about possible misrepresentation, or about how much you were actually in Canada between June 4, 2013 and June 3, 2018, it is important to OBJECTIVELY assess your situation and respond accordingly. The potential seriousness of this varies widely depending on what the facts are and what the facts might APPEAR TO BE.

If there are small discrepancies between your account of facts (such as travel dates), and what IRCC perceives, these are no big deal. The bigger the discrepancy, the bigger the deal, the more serious it can be.

Similarly as to concerns about being short of 730 days in Canada during the last five years. If you have been in Canada more than 900 days between June 4, 2013 and June 3, 2018, no big deal, not likely there is an issue. If, in contrast, you have been cutting-it-close (which obviously you have at least sometime since becoming a PR if you were once outside Canada for more than 1000 days in a stretch), HOW CLOSE matters. It MATTERS how well settled in Canada it APPEARS you have been in the last two to three years.



IF THERE IS AN IN-PERSON INTERVIEW:

If there is an in-person interview, the outcome of that could be:
-- a favourable decision to issue a new PR card, or
-- a negative decision resulting in a Departure Order (which would constitute loss of PR status, subject to an appeal if you appeal), or
-- referring the application for further review, that is, a referral for Secondary Review​

The rest of this post is ONLY relevant if there are reasons to be concerned about proving your RO compliance or there are possibly big discrepancies between the information you have provided and other information IRCC might have.

IF THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED WAS INACCURATE:

If the information you provided in your application was inaccurate in any material respect, this is potentially a SERIOUS matter. Minor mistakes, small omissions, or slight oversights are NOT a problem. If there are big discrepancies between what you stated in the application and what information IRCC might otherwise find, it would be time to LAWYER-UP.


IF, IF YOU WERE SHORT OF 730 DAYS:

That is, IF you were in Canada fewer than 730 days between June 4, 2013 and June 3, 2018, by how much matters. In this regard, it also matters how many days you have been in Canada in the five years as of the date you send off your response to these requests, and likewise as of the date you attend an interview. The last is probably the most important. Thus, for example, if you are scheduled for an interview December 3, 2018, the number of days you have been in Canada between December 3, 2013 and December 3, 2018, is the MOST important calculation (if the total is less than 730 as of this date, there is a serious risk of being issued a Departure Order, or its equivalent).


IF, IF YOU WERE SHORT OF 730 DAYS and INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED WAS SIGNIFICANTLY INACCURATE: AGAIN, probably time to LAWYER-UP.
 
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sunnybh

Hero Member
Dec 11, 2017
476
85
Received the email to send additional information today (passport pages + entry/exit proof + proof of residence). Application received Jun 6th and the processing started on Sep 17th. Now wondering if it really takes a whole year to process the additional information!!
The simple answer to your question:
  1. If you have received email from CIC Sydney, then your file is not transferred, and they are just confirming PR RO.
  2. If you have received email from CIC local office, then most probably it has been referred to for SR.
In both the cases, it is considered as non-routine, and may take time between 6-12 months.
The situation will be clearer if you get ATIP notes, which usually takes 1 month. https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/welcome.do?lang=en
  • If anywhere in ATIP notes, it is mentioned TRIAGE I or TRIAGE 2, then it is referred to SR to local office.
  • If in ATIP notes it is mentioned that the file is "referred to Review team" and "Return to queue", then it is still in Sydney office.
I know two cases(including mine), one for each mentioned above, and in both cases it took 12 months and more to receive the PR cards.
I repeat my previous post - I would suggest you to withdraw your application and apply afresh with the correction. This will take away all doubts, and moreover will also take away chance of IRCC sending your application for SR. Because if it goes to SR due to a small mistake, then there is no timeline for processing.
Once it goes to SR, it becomes impossible or withdraw also.
 
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Bleuxu008

Member
Sep 11, 2018
19
4
The simple answer to your question:
  1. If you have received email from CIC Sydney, then your file is not transferred, and they are just confirming PR RO.
  2. If you have received email from CIC local office, then most probably it has been referred to for SR.
In both the cases, it is considered as non-routine, and may take time between 6-12 months.
The situation will be clearer if you get ATIP notes, which usually takes 1 month. https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/welcome.do?lang=en
  • If anywhere in ATIP notes, it is mentioned TRIAGE I or TRIAGE 2, then it is referred to SR to local office.
  • If in ATIP notes it is mentioned that the file is "referred to Review team" and "Return to queue", then it is still in Sydney office.
I know two cases(including mine), one for each mentioned above, and in both cases it took 12 months and more to receive the PR cards.
I repeat my previous post - I would suggest you to withdraw your application and apply afresh with the correction. This will take away all doubts, and moreover will also take away chance of IRCC sending your application for SR. Because if it goes to SR due to a small mistake, then there is no timeline for processing.
Once it goes to SR, it becomes impossible or withdraw also.
Do you know how to cancel a current application and resubmit? Also, do you know any successful case (cancel and re-apply without going through the non-routine RO check)?

Thanks a lot for your help
 

sunnybh

Hero Member
Dec 11, 2017
476
85
Do you know how to cancel a current application and resubmit? Also, do you know any successful case (cancel and re-apply without going through the non-routine RO check)?

Thanks a lot for your help
Please check these links, you can withdraw through webform:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=719&top=4
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/contacts/web-form.asp

And check the following for successful cases:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/pr-renewed.100292/#post-1369743
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/email-from-cic-that-pr-card-renewal-needs-secondary-review.251571/page-119#post-5885045 (This person has taken the citizenship oath also now on 21 Sep 2018 after getting his PR card renewed on Mar 2017)
 

Bleuxu008

Member
Sep 11, 2018
19
4
Wow, good to see some positive updates. Thanks for the info. I also applied for urgent processing with proof of plane ticket and doctor's note for my father. Probably will wait to see if the urgent processing is accepted before withdraw the application...But thanks again
 

sunnybh

Hero Member
Dec 11, 2017
476
85
Wow, good to see some positive updates. Thanks for the info. I also applied for urgent processing with proof of plane ticket and doctor's note for my father. Probably will wait to see if the urgent processing is accepted before withdraw the application...But thanks again
I have tried to find a pattern for urgent processing of PR card application, but unfortunately was unsuccessful. As there is no pattern, urgent applications in routine or non-routine, I have seen getting accepted and rejected both. Mine was in SR and urgent request was rejected even with air ticket, doctor's certificate of immediate relative. But I have seen urgent case being accepted if supported by job related issue by canadian employer.
 

Bleuxu008

Member
Sep 11, 2018
19
4
I have tried to find a pattern for urgent processing of PR card application, but unfortunately was unsuccessful. As there is no pattern, urgent applications in routine or non-routine, I have seen getting accepted and rejected both. Mine was in SR and urgent request was rejected even with air ticket, doctor's certificate of immediate relative. But I have seen urgent case being accepted if supported by job related issue by canadian employer.
How did you get notified with a rejection of the urgent request? Did they get back to you right away? And did you end up taking the flight to go back without a valid PR card?
 

sunnybh

Hero Member
Dec 11, 2017
476
85
How did you get notified with a rejection of the urgent request? Did they get back to you right away? And did you end up taking the flight to go back without a valid PR card?
Yes they get back within a week or so by email if email id is mentioned in application. Yes I did, I traveled via US, as I have US valid visa
 

Bleuxu008

Member
Sep 11, 2018
19
4
Yes they get back within a week or so by email if email id is mentioned in application. Yes I did, I traveled via US, as I have US valid visa
Thanks a lot! I have heard passing through US may not be guaranteed option. But willing to try or get a PRTD...
I also didn't get the CBSA travel record when I resubmit the additional documents. Hopefully it is not a big deal.