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Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review

Discussion in 'Permanent Residency Obligations' started by Pual Newman, Nov 16, 2014.

  1. CBSA record does help. Travelling through US is a cake walk with COPR. PRTD may be a challenge though
     


  2. @Bleuxu008: CAUTION! Much of what has been suggested above is rooted in misconception or misunderstanding, failing to recognize the difference between inquiries conducted by a local office (which is current status of your application) to obtain additional information relevant to assessing PR Residency Obligation compliance versus other types of review, such as PRC applications referred to the PRCC Sydney Client Service Unit (name of this unit may have been changed in last year or so) "for a second-level review."

    Be aware that your PRC application has already been processed by PRCC Sydney and referred to the local office, and it clearly has been determined that there is a factual question as to RO compliance requiring additional information (See sources listed below, and specific references to sources in further explanation below.) The nature and extent of review for a referral to the local office, which is your case currently, is very different from that review conducted if the PRC application is referred to the PRCC Sydney Client Service Unit (we know very little about this review, since this is well behind the confidential-investigatory-methods non-public information curtain).

    Main immediate things to be aware of (subject to my previous observations about seeing a lawyer if certain circumstances are in play for you):

    There is NOTHING to be gained by withdrawing the application now

    Follow the instructions in the IRCC communications, including timely submit the response to requests

    There is little or NOTHING to be gained by making further inquiries to IRCC (no point making an ATIP application)



    References to authoritative sources; the IRCC Operational Guidelines relevant to PR card application processing:


    -- Operational Manual ENF 27 "Permanent resident card" (Section 8 in particular)

    -- Operational Manual OP 10 "Permanent Residency Status Determination" (technically this does not directly apply to PRC applications, since this is about visa office processing PR Travel Document applications, but nonetheless provides information which illuminates important aspects of assessing PR RO compliance and related processing or practices)

    -- Operational Manual ENF 23 "Loss of Permanent Residence Status" (for PR RO in particular, see Section 7)

    -- Operational Bulletin 536 (modified) - December 19, 2016 (technically focused on PRC applicants perceived to be outside Canada, but is also very instructive in regards to the nature and types of review there are for PRC applications)​

    To see the above Operational Manuals and Bulletins, follow links from: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals.html


    FOREMOST: AGAIN, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO WITHDRAW THE APPLICATION; AND BE SURE TO FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS IN TIMELY PROVIDING THE DOCUMENTS REQUESTED, AS BEST YOU CAN.

    I generally avoid stating what amounts to advice except to the extent noted in my signature. And the main thing I am advising is consistent with that: FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS, including those in the communication you have received from IRCC. BUT I am going a bit beyond that in also advising you to NOT withdraw the application. I will at least partially explain:

    I do not have time to fully explain at the moment BUT A CAUTION is warranted.

    I do not know why, but significant propositions in the posts by @sunnybh are, at best, NOT reliable information.

    Most prominently, the suggestion to withdraw your PR card application. There is NOTHING to be gained by withdrawing your application now.

    To withdraw PRC application or not (spoiler alert, again, there is NOTHING to be gained by withdrawing the PRC application):

    Either there is something problematic in your PRC application or there is not.

    If there is nothing problematic in the PRC application, if for example you have received the request for additional documents due to a QA review (randomly selected) or because a detail in your case triggered one of the triage criteria but does not actually invite significant concerns or suspicions, the request for additional documents does NOT necessarily mean there will be a lengthy delay in processing . . . more than a few forum participants here have reported getting their PRC within one to three months after submitting their response. In contrast, those who receive notice of SR but no request for additional documents tend to be among those reporting much longer timelines.

    If there is something problematic in the PRC application, IRCC has already begun its review and withdrawing it now will NOT preclude IRCC from completing its review or investigating further. The notice at the bottom of the FAQ answer (linked by @sunnybh) for how to withdraw states that IRCC can "refuse a withdrawal request if the card has already been processed." This is a bit of an understatement, especially given other internal IRCC information which significantly restricts PRC application withdrawal, at least once processing has started. Your PRC application has already been processed by PRCC-Sydney. We know this because you have received a request additional documents, which happens following a referral from PRCC Sydney to the local office.

    Contrary to
    the source of the request for additional documents does NOT illuminate much, and to the extent this suggests it is possible an IRCC office in Sydney (there is NO CIC anymore, not for nearly THREE years now) is "just confirming PR RO" it is outright wrong. The office in Sydney that processes PRC applications is PRCC Sydney. It does NOT conduct a factual review to determine compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. PRCC Sydney does review the application for completeness and RO compliance, but the latter review is about ascertaining whether RO compliance can be determined "based on the information at hand" (OB 536) (I tend to describe this as a determination made on the face of the application, although it may involve not just reviewing the applicant's account of presence in Canada but also comparing travel history to the CBSA travel history).

    If there is a factual question about PR RO compliance, or based "on enhanced triage criteria" (ENF 27 Section 8), PRCC Sydney will refer the file to the local office where the "application is assessed to determine whether additional information is required." (See OB-536 and discussions about OB-536 throughout this forum; also see somewhat cryptic reference which is probably, most likely, a reference to this in Section 8.5 "Referral of the application to a local IRCC office" in ENF 27 "Permanent resident card" which was essentially rewritten as of April last year. Again, these can be found by following links at this IRCC webpage: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals.html)

    I do not have time to elaborate further now. There are some complicating variations in what is described as "COMPLEX" Phase II card processing, and there are other significant misstatements or misleading information in the posts above. I will make an effort to return and address the more important ones later. Most of what you need to know is provided in the communications from IRCC. Unless one of the problematic situations I reference in my earlier post applies, in which case you should see a lawyer, you should be fine simply following IRCC's instructions and appropriately responding to their requests.

    It is too soon to consider making a request for urgent processing. If you have travel plans, you may need to accommodate the inconvenience of having to obtain a PR TD or alter your plans.

    In particular, if IRCC will allow urgent processing at this stage, it is likely your PRC application will be finalized and the PRC issued relatively soon anyway, that is soon after receiving your response to the requests. That is, if IRCC is satisfied with your response there should be little or no further delay in sending the PRC application back to PRCC Sydney with a positive determination whereupon a new PRC should be promptly issued and mailed.

    If, in contrast, the local office is not satisfied, at least not without further inquiry or, as I discussed in my previous posts, not without an in-person interview, it is almost certain urgent processing will NOT be allowed.
     
  3. Thanks for your input...I will most likely not to cancel at this point but re-enter the country using COPR through US border
     
  4. I have a question in this context and I’ll be glad if anyone cane share the answer, I have received a request to submit additional documents from the Sydney office within 30 days, I have worked hard to collect all almost all the required documents before the 30 days deadline, I had almost all documents ready 2 days before the deadline and I sent those documents by mail but they will be received by IRCC 3-5 days after the deadline.
    Since I was expecting delay in getting the documents ready before the deadline, I sent an email to PRCC-Sydney (as instructed in the IRCC email sent to me) 5 days BEFORE the deadline asking for 10 days extension but no reply, I also I called IRCC on the day I sent the documents (which is 2 days before the deadline) and told them the situation and the email I sent for extension but they were not able to see any note in my file for extension but they told me they will put a note in my file that I have collected and sent the documents.
    Will this delay negatively affect my application?? The IRCC email sent to me earlier mentioned that failure to submit the document will cause them to refer my application to a local IRCC office which may cause significant delay. They also mentioned that if you need more time send us an email which I did BUT only 5 days before the end of the 30 days!!!!
    Thank you all for taking time to read my long question.
     
  5. Mostly: As long as you send off documents responsive to the request, per the instructions, within a couple weeks or so, there should NOT be any problem due to how long it has taken you to send in the response.

    (Whether there is a risk some other issue might arise and cause problems is a separate matter; but a short delay in submitting the requested documents should NOT, not in itself, cause any problems or significant delay.)

    As I will explain below, it will help advance our understanding, @Real55, if you could specify or describe more about what documents in particular were requested. Among those of key interest, relative to the nature of the request you received, is whether the request asked for documents like Exit/Entry Records from other countries or documents to prove where you were living (rental or ownership documents), or documents such as history of health care usage, or documents to prove your employment in Canada.


    Further Observations:

    On one hand you provide more detail than many others have about the actual request, and related communications with IRCC, and this helps. But whether your PR card application will face delays or how the situation might otherwise affect you, that depends on many other factors specific to your situation. (By the way, while it is not a good idea to share too many personal details in a venue like this, the more detail there is with a query, the easier it is for forum participants to identify the relevant issues and provide helpful information; so longer queries are often better, definitely better than a too short query which fails to disclose key elements, and importantly they help advance our understanding of the process generally.)

    Assuming the delay in sending off your submission of requested documents is NOT lengthy, and what you submit satisfies the request, this should NOT delay the process by much. But of course it is important for you to FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS and submit the documents requested as soon as you practically can. The longer it takes you, the longer it will take IRCC. That much is hardwired into such a request.

    Thus, there is already some delay. At the least there is the amount of time you are taking to submit the requested documents. There is quite likely also some queue involving some waiting for action to be taken on your file AFTER IRCC receives the response.

    As for missing the deadline, or getting an extension, not all deadlines are created equal. It can be dangerous to miss some deadlines, while other deadlines are inherently soft or at least not a strict deadline. Most procedures involving requests for additional submissions allow for a significant buffer beyond the deadline and typically no IRCC personnel will take action on the file until some time after that buffer has passed, and sometimes this is actually a formal part of the process where there is a BF date assigned, pursuant to which the BF (Bring Forward) date is typically well past the deadline.



    REMINDER RE ROUTINE PRC PROCESS:

    The routine PRC application is largely done virtually all-at-once. Technically it is a multi-step process, but in practical terms the routine PRC application is opened, reviewed on-its-face in conjunction with IRCC information at-hand (largely GCMS including FOSS, perhaps also including access to CBSA Travel History), a positive decision is made, a new PRC issued, and mailed. Done. This involves some distinct administrative steps, but again in practical terms the main wait time for routine PRC applications is the queue waiting for a processing agent at PRCC-Sydney to actually open the application. Then there is just the amount of administrative time it takes for PRCC-Sydney (or such) to actually physically create the new PRC and put it into the mail (noting that, according to last disclosed IRCC information, TEN percent of these are randomly selected and sent to a local office to be delivered in-person rather than mailed directly).

    What you describe (albeit also subject to the particular requests) appears to indicate your PRC application is still largely in this track, an almost-routine track, EXCEPT for the request, suggesting that so long as you TIMELY submit documents responsive to and otherwise satisfying the request, the PRCC-Sydney will proceed to approve the application, issue a new PRC, and probably mail it. NO particularly lengthy delay. NO special or secondary review. (Of course, a processing agent assessing the information and submitted documents may still perceive a reason for ADDITIONAL REVIEW, which would constitute further review and some further delays.)


    Which brings me back to my continuing effort to clarify differences in the type of review involved in PRC applications.


    ADDITIONAL REVIEW: BEYOND DISTINGUISHING SR AND PR RO REVIEW

    In this regard, some of the detail in your query, @Real55, is particularly helpful.

    There are actually MULTIPLE types of review which can be part of the PRC process. This particular topic is intended to be about Secondary Review. For nearly FOUR years now, however, queries and observations in this topic have been in reference to multiple types of review, often without clarification about which type of review, and all the while plagued by an overall confusion having to do with failing to distinguish two types of review:

    -- the PR receives a notice of "Secondary Review" BUT NO request for additional information or documentation, versus​

    -- the PR receives a request for additional information or documentation relating to residency or presence or travel history ​

    Detail in your query really helps clarify that some of the queries and observations here may NOT be about either type of additional review, but are simply about a PRCC-Sydney request for documents, for verification purposes. And, indeed, this could explain the difference between those instances in which the PRC is issued, mailed, and received within a month or so versus those which take significantly longer. (It appears to me that this sort of request may be one of the possibilities @sunnybh was referencing, rather than a referral for SR or other Additional Review.)

    In this regard, as I mention above, it will help advance our understanding, Real55, if you could specify or describe more about what documents were requested in particular. Again, among those of key interest, relative to the nature of the request you received, is whether the request asked for documents like Exit/Entry Records from other countries or documents to prove where you were living (rental or ownership documents), documents such as history of health care usage, or documents to prove your employment in Canada. It would also help if you could clarify whether the communication from IRCC specifically mentioned a "referral" for "review" and if so, quote the precise terms.

    The latter request is also extended to all other forum participants who have received communication from IRCC regarding a PRC application which has been referred for any kind of additional review. Please clarify what the precise language is in the communication, such as whether it literally states the application has been "referred," and what it has been referred to or for. For example, does the communication specifically state "Secondary Review?" It is obvious that the discussions here reference procedures in addition to the two groups or types for which I have tried to emphasize the differences. So it will help advance our collective understanding considerably if the precise terms are shared, so that the various anecdotal reports can be put into perspective, illuminating more clearly how the system works.
     
  6. Thanks @dpenabill for your prompt response to my query, I was requested to submit additional documents including passport copies, exit/entry records and proof of physical presence. The communication from IRCC did not mention referral, it states that preliminary review has been completed and additional informations are required before a final review can be completed.
     
  7. MUCH APPRECIATED.

    This helps put many other posts in this and other topics into perspective.

    As I noted, there are multiple types of review. It is difficult to discern whether this is a program integrity check triggered by specified criteria or a random Quality Assurance check. My guess is the latter, but that is just a guess. And probably little practical difference whether it is a PI or QA check. Probably minimal delay once you have submitted your documents.

    And thus probably has little or nothing to do with the trials and tribulations discussed at length by those whose PRC applications have been referred for Secondary Review or subject to a factual inquiry to be conducted by a local office.



    Some further notes, and possible correction as it may be that you have not been referred for further or additional review at all, but merely subject to a PI (program integrity) or QA (quality assurance) check.

    In particular, if the request for documents instructs you to SUBMIT them to PRCC-Sydney, and there is no reference to "secondary review," it is possible you have merely been selected for a PI or QA check.

    Take note of the query posed by @Real55 above and further post, and in particular the details about sending the documents to PRCC-Sydney AND the caution about a referral to a local office if the documents are not timely submitted. If the request you received similarly, specifically, states these things, that is to send the documents to PRCC-Sydney, and the caution, that is a very good indicator there will be little additional delay beyond the time it takes to submit the documents (unless some further concern or issue is noted or arises) . . . this is especially NOT either type of additional review discussed in depth here.

    Since your request specifically asks for Exit/Entry records and proof of residence, and your query appeared to about additional review (which it now occurs to me you might not have said so specifically, it just appearing to be about additional review since you posted in this topic about Secondary Review), it appeared to be about a request for documents attendant a factual inquiry into compliance with the PR Residency Obligation (which is a review done by a local office, as discussed above), rather than what is more or less a program integrity check to, essentially, verify the information submitted.

    Now, especially given the clear detail provided by @Real55, which helps to put other queries and observations into perspective, in retrospect it is readily apparent that perhaps many queries and posts in this topic have been in reference to this process, which does NOT constitute a referral for additional review, let alone Secondary Review, but rather is a type of program integrity check to verify information before making a final decision. Still in PRCC-Sydney.

    Thus, to be clear, if the request you received instructs you to submit the documents to PRCC-Sydney, and you do so timely, there are pretty good odds there will not be a lengthy delay. But as I observed in response to @Real55, obviously there is some delay given the time to submit the response and whatever the time it takes for a processing agent at PRCC-Sydney to take action (probably not all that long, but nonetheless some weeks or a month or so after receipt of the response). So NOT in time to get a new PRC for travel in October.

    In any event, these recent posts help illuminate more context for some older posts, such as the below


    I had previously failed to give sufficient attention to the specifics of the request in such posts compared to the explicit absence of reference to a "referral" or "Secondary Review."

    NOTE, IN PARTICULAR, THE RELATIVELY SHORT TIMELINE REPORTED BY @momocyl !

    Forum reports are often if not nearly always difficult to sort out. It is clear, now, that not only have many posted about being referred to Secondary Review when in fact it was a Residency Determination review, but many appear to NOT have been referred for Additional Review under the procedures applicable to applications deemed (or meeting the criteria for) "complex" cases (see ENF 27 referenced in previous post) but merely have received requests arising from a PI or QA process pursuant to which it is merely a part of the routine review for PRC applications in PRCC-Sydney. The latter are likely those who have indicated relatively short timelines compared to those whose applications have indeed been referred for complex case types of review. Big differences.
     
  8. hello to all here is my story.i apply for pr card renewal on 12 march 2018 .processing started on june 1 .then i got request to submit the entry/exit from usa because i am us citizen but living in canada and in last 5 year i have residency over 2 year and 6 month .but last day i got responce back from CBP that they have no record so i am in tension know what should i do should i send them my medical record from alberta,car insurance copy,notice of assessment,bank statement please help me i am worried a lot because i have to response them back
     
  9. You can get US entry/exit online, and also request for CBP entry/exit records under ATIP. It takes about 30 days to get CBP records. Other helpful documents will be like rental contract or utility bills etc
     
  10. i already requested from CBP but after 90 days they tell me they have NO record what should i do know anyone please help me it’s really appreciated for your reply
     
  11. In case you were travelling by car, you can request for highway passage report.
    https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html
    To get a highway passage report, provide the licence plate number and a copy of the vehicle's ownership. If you are not the owner, you will need to provide the CBSA with a BSF745 form completed by the owner of the vehicle.
    Else you will have depend on US report and other documents
    https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/#/home
     
  12. If you are a US citizen, you will need to submit a FOIA request to get your US entry/exit record - be sure to open an account and then place a request so that you can see everything online. It takes almost 100 days to receive the FOIA report. The cost is free but you need to list the max amount you are willing to pay in your request.

    The link is:

    https://www.foiaonline.gov/foiaonline/action/public/home
     
  13. i already did that but after 100 days they sent me that they have NO Record but i travel to us 5 times in last 5 year so know i will send that letter to cic that they have no record and i am collecting additional documents can u please help me which documents should i collect
     
  14. That's surprising that CBP doesn't have your record. Am assuming you provided US CBP with your passport details/Alien number when logging FOIA request.

    If you traveled by air, you can provide air ticket receipts. In addition you can provide any other proofs such as pay slips, tax NOAs, bills, medical records etc.
     


  15. That’s unbelievable, you had 1200 plus days.....and the minimum requirements are 730+ days for residency obligations. You had more then enough still went for secondary review?? Or you didn’t submit so many proofs which caused them to think that you are doing misrepresentation or you don’t meet RO?? But that’s horrible even after having 1200+ days they put you on secondary review........
     

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