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Effective date of Bill C24

MUFC

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I really don't understand why you guys think that you will get something as internal information from CIC call clerks when constantly they repeat one thing....The date is not confirmed and they don't know.

By the way the Fake 19th date came from the same unreliable Call centre and you guys still look for information from them. That's why for me was strange to see that some of you took this date seriously.

It's like you like to remind them that they have work to do.

Calling the CIC call centre regarding the actual cut off date doesn't play in your favour guys, I don't know whether you realize that.
 

m22ij

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May 15, 2015
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No assuming you're eligible on the 12th and you're package is still in transit and they apply the rules on the 13th then you're good,, they take the date that they are eligible not the received date... CIC call center clerk told me tho.


screech339 said:
CIC have to give some sort of notice. It is totally unfair to an applicant to send in an application under the old rule, say from BC, and the new law go into effect while the package was in transit to CIC office. CIC would have to return the application since it doesn't meet the new 4/6 rule.

There has to be some form of notice so that applicant can prepare for it.
 

MUFC

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m22ij said:
No assuming you're eligible on the 12th and you're package is still in transit and they apply the rules on the 13th then you're good,, they take the date that they are eligible not the received date... CIC call center clerk told me tho.
This proves again how unreliable source of information they are.
 

surgi

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Feb 20, 2014
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m22ij said:
I called the CIC yesterday and the agent told me that the government doesn't need any notice to enforce the law,,, they have already given a year in advance,, also she mentioned that 19th June isn't a confirmed date no one knows,, it could be that day or any other later date.. I am one of the unfortunate people, but what to do seriously if they change they change it,, lets pray they don't and hope for the best. :( :( :(
This is an example that some workers in the call center of CIC give answers which do not correspond to reality. They have and will give a notice of time before starting the application of the new rules. Just take a look when they change fees, they give a good time of notice before the application of new fees. They do so all the time.
 

MUFC

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I have a feeling that the Call centre clerk are already pissed off of constant asking of a question which is out of their control and for that reason they are giving Fake and Stupid answers which have nothing to do with the reality.

And the most funny thing is that the people keep on asking them, after that they get as an answer another Fake information and start spreading around.

Absolutely ridiculous is to think that the call centre will give the actual cut off date before the official announcement.

Only the Governor will publish the real cut off date folks.

The actual cut off date will not be known from the call centre.
 

shaazdeh

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If people knew that call centre agents don't know anything more than us! they are not even located in the same building as CIC ! just saying!
 

staralihaider

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MUFC said:
I have a feeling that the Call centre clerk are already pissed off of constant asking of a question which is out of their control and for that reason they are giving Fake and Stupid answers which have nothing to do with the reality.

And the most funny thing is that the people keep on asking them, after that they get as an answer another Fake information and start spreading around.

Absolutely ridiculous is to think that the call centre will give the actual cut off date before the official announcement.

Only the Governor will publish the real cut off date folks.

The actual cut off date will not be known from the call centre.
Dear everyone knows about this that official date is the final date. Atleast cic call centre 1 step ahead from us they have more information than us.

We cant say that we have more information.
 

screech339

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m22ij said:
No assuming you're eligible on the 12th and you're package is still in transit and they apply the rules on the 13th then you're good,, they take the date that they are eligible not the received date... CIC call center clerk told me tho.
I gotta say that it is completely false. The date that the CIC received the application will be the official date. Not when the application is signed.

If this is true according to you, everyone can print up the application and have signed backdate to day before the new rule kick in and mail it after the new rule. You see how silly that is.
 

shaazdeh

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screech339 said:
I gotta say that it is completely false. The date that the CIC received the application will be the official date. Not when the application is signed.

If this is true according to you, everyone can print up the application and have signed backdate to day before the new rule kick in and mail it after the new rule. You see how silly that is.
I agree this is completely false. Even when you check your ecas, they put the received fate not a date signed on the website.
 

MUFC

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Everything is normal Guys.

After all we know the source of that BS.

Again the CIC call centre ;D
 

dpenabill

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Regarding how the cut-off will apply:

-- applications dated before effective date?

-- or, only applications actually received as of day before effective date?


I may have been among those who, many months ago (probably last year), expressed a firm opinion that the determinative date would be the date the application was actually, physically received at CIC.

I am not at all certain this is the case any more.

The language of the statutory provisions refer to the date the application was made and the statutory definition for when an application is deemed "made" appears to depend on the date the complete application was signed.

Part of the reasoning for my earlier view was based on changes to provisions of immigration law and regulations, in response to a Federal Court decision which related the date a sponsorship application was "made" back to the date it was originally signed and submitted (pre-dating the condition of two years cohabitation for sponsored partners), in conjunction with how CIC processed applications when they increased the fees without advance notice in February 2014 (which apparently did result in dozens or hundreds of applications being returned for failure to pay the increased fees) and when there were some changes to what documents were required with the application, when the date that took effect came without advance notice and again many applications caught in transit were returned to applicants (I forget which change this was, may have been the requirement to include proof of language . . . in any event, it was a change for which, like these pending residency changes, there had been plenty of notice the change was coming but as to the actual date there was no advance notice).

That is, those prior events signalled that CIC processed the application based on the date it was received at CIC, not based on the date of signature.

But again, looking at the language of the statutory provisions, they refer to the date the application was made and the statutory definition for when an application is deemed "made" appears to depend on the date the complete application was signed.

It does no good to reason what would be the most logical way for this to be applied. The statutory language is controlling, not reasoning about how it should work.

I do not know. My sense is that it is likely to be based on the date the application was signed, but I do not know if CIC will look at posting dates to apply a cut-off based on the conjunction of the application being signed and actually shipped on the day before the revised provisions take effect or not.

By the way, regarding dating applications earlier than the date actually signed (back-dating). There is no prohibition against this. There is a policy regarding stale-dated applications, based on those dated . . . I think the policy is based on ninety days prior to the date received at CIC.

If the cut-off is based on the date application is signed, the applicant must nonetheless be qualified as of the day before the application is signed, so the capacity to send in an application a few days later than it is signed does not really change anything of much import . . .

. . . take for example if the effective date is June 1st (noting, sure, July 1st is more likely), and a PR met the eligibility requirements as of May 26th but in reliance on MUFC's opinion (no reason to anticipate a date earlier than July 1st) contemplates holding out to build a bit of a buffer before applying.

-- If this PR signed and shipped the application on May 27th, in time to arrive at CIC May 29th, with no buffer, the application should for sure (assuming it is complete) be processed under the current law (3/4 rule)

-- If this PR waited, to build a little buffer (which would be very reasonable to do), and then on June 1st discovers that the law took effect that day, then:

-- -- if the new law applies based on date application arrives at CIC, this PR will have to wait and apply under the 4/6 rule

-- -- if the new law applies based on date the application is signed, this PR could sign and date the application as of May 29th, say, which would give the PR a two-day buffer, and so long as it is sent to CIC as a complete application and arrives at CIC before CIC's stale-dated policy applies, the application should still be processed pursuant to the 3/4 rule

The latter would not enable someone who did not become eligible until July 1st to back-date the application. That is, if the latter applies, it could only be used by those applicants who are actually qualified before July 1st.

But again I do not know. I do not know either what the source is for those who are so adamantly sure the cut-off will be based on the date the application arrives.


Reminder regarding need for notice: Notice has already been given. The SCCA received Royal Assent June 19th, 2014, and was published in Part III of the Gazette in August 2014. That is official notice of these changes.

The question is whether or not CIC will ask the Governor in General to publish the Order in advance, giving some notice of the precise date the changes take effect, for practical reasons. There is no legal requirement for any further notice. Many such laws take effect with no further notice than that already given for this change in the law. I anticipate some notice, again for practical reasons but there is NO guarantee there will be much if any notice of the precise date.
 

m22ij

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Thank you..


dpenabill said:
Regarding how the cut-off will apply:

-- applications dated before effective date?

-- or, only applications actually received as of day before effective date?


I may have been among those who, many months ago (probably last year), expressed a firm opinion that the determinative date would be the date the application was actually, physically received at CIC.

I am not at all certain this is the case any more.

The language of the statutory provisions refer to the date the application was made and the statutory definition for when an application is deemed "made" appears to depend on the date the complete application was signed.

Part of the reasoning for my earlier view was based on changes to provisions of immigration law and regulations, in response to a Federal Court decision which related the date a sponsorship application was "made" back to the date it was originally signed and submitted (pre-dating the condition of two years cohabitation for sponsored partners), in conjunction with how CIC processed applications when they increased the fees without advance notice in February 2014 (which apparently did result in dozens or hundreds of applications being returned for failure to pay the increased fees) and when there were some changes to what documents were required with the application, when the date that took effect came without advance notice and again many applications caught in transit were returned to applicants (I forget which change this was, may have been the requirement to include proof of language . . . in any event, it was a change for which, like these pending residency changes, there had been plenty of notice the change was coming but as to the actual date there was no advance notice).

That is, those prior events signalled that CIC processed the application based on the date it was received at CIC, not based on the date of signature.

But again, looking at the language of the statutory provisions, they refer to the date the application was made and the statutory definition for when an application is deemed "made" appears to depend on the date the complete application was signed.

It does no good to reason what would be the most logical way for this to be applied. The statutory language is controlling, not reasoning about how it should work.

I do not know. My sense is that it is likely to be based on the date the application was signed, but I do not know if CIC will look at posting dates to apply a cut-off based on the conjunction of the application being signed and actually shipped on the day before the revised provisions take effect or not.

By the way, regarding dating applications earlier than the date actually signed (back-dating). There is no prohibition against this. There is a policy regarding stale-dated applications, based on those dated . . . I think the policy is based on ninety days prior to the date received at CIC.

If the cut-off is based on the date application is signed, the applicant must nonetheless be qualified as of the day before the application is signed, so the capacity to send in an application a few days later than it is signed does not really change anything of much import . . .

. . . take for example if the effective date is June 1st (noting, sure, July 1st is more likely), and a PR met the eligibility requirements as of May 26th but in reliance on MUFC's opinion (no reason to anticipate a date earlier than July 1st) contemplates holding out to build a bit of a buffer before applying.

-- If this PR signed and shipped the application on May 27th, in time to arrive at CIC May 29th, with no buffer, the application should for sure (assuming it is complete) be processed under the current law (3/4 rule)

-- If this PR waited, to build a little buffer (which would be very reasonable to do), and then on June 1st discovers that the law took effect that day, then:

-- -- if the new law applies based on date application arrives at CIC, this PR will have to wait and apply under the 4/6 rule

-- -- if the new law applies based on date the application is signed, this PR could sign and date the application as of May 29th, say, which would give the PR a two-day buffer, and so long as it is sent to CIC as a complete application and arrives at CIC before CIC's stale-dated policy applies, the application should still be processed pursuant to the 3/4 rule

The latter would not enable someone who did not become eligible until July 1st to back-date the application. That is, if the latter applies, it could only be used by those applicants who are actually qualified before July 1st.

But again I do not know. I do not know either what the source is for those who are so adamantly sure the cut-off will be based on the date the application arrives.


Reminder regarding need for notice: Notice has already been given. The SCCA received Royal Assent June 19th, 2014, and was published in Part III of the Gazette in August 2014. That is official notice of these changes.

The question is whether or not CIC will ask the Governor in General to publish the Order in advance, giving some notice of the precise date the changes take effect, for practical reasons. There is no legal requirement for any further notice. Many such laws take effect with no further notice than that already given for this change in the law. I anticipate some notice, again for practical reasons but there is NO guarantee there will be much if any notice of the precise date.
 

MUFC

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Based on the practical examples with the fees, it is obvious that the date the application is received in CIC Sydney is the determining factor.

One application with a receipt showing the old fees is again made and signed before the fee changes date, but CIC have returned those applications with a request to be paid with the new fees.
 

m22ij

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May 15, 2015
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Lets just assume that it is the case that you backdated, signed it and submitted it, don't you print out something called online residence calculator which proves you have been in the country for so many days,, if you for example did that, this is called fraud my friend,, first you lied on a government application and you consented on it , 2nd your application will be returned. If you have completed your 1095 you have to sign your application the day after your eligible which would be in total 1096, in the residence calculator you have to show those days, and if you have went out of the country you have to list it, or else RQ would flag big time.

Thanks

screech339 said:
I gotta say that it is completely false. The date that the CIC received the application will be the official date. Not when the application is signed.

If this is true according to you, everyone can print up the application and have signed backdate to day before the new rule kick in and mail it after the new rule. You see how silly that is.
 

m22ij

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I can assure you they have not returned many of my friends applications, they send them a letter or an email saying make sure you pay the difference and send us the the confirmation that is it.



MUFC said:
Based on the practical examples with the fees, it is obvious that the date the application is received in CIC Sydney is the determining factor.

One application with a receipt showing the old fees is again made and signed before the fee changes date, but CIC have returned those applications with a request to be paid with the new fees.