CIC should revise this express entry system

[gakki_prpr]

I was just about as disappointed as you did like 2 months ago, but now I have an ITA (456 kind of lucky). There are not many LMIA holders in the pool from what I can see, at least not as many as the first few draws.

You get really good chance to be picked in the next 2 draws, just be patient.

You may not know I have applied through the old system last year. I made a tiny mistake and my file was returned. I corrected it, delivered again and waited for another 3 months only to be told the 'CAP' of 8000 has been reached. Even if I can get an AOR, it takes almost a year to process and EE has promised to get it done within 6 months. You tell me which system is better.

 

[itainttrue]

I think the system is working exactly as it should. If there are Canadians or PRs that can do your job then they should get it. Everything placed on a LMIA application is subject to investigation and must be justified. LMIAs have an approval rate of just over 20% so trust me, LMIA holders are not your problem. Furthermore low skilled TFWs do not qualify under EE and those are the ones who tend to exploited. LMIA holders who are eligible for EE must also qualify for FSW so its no easier for them.

Under the old system, someone who had a valid job offer supported by an LMIA would have had to wait an eternity for their PR to come through if they did not get a work permit while waiting for PR. How does it benefit Canada when a company has demonstrated its need for a skilled worker to fill a position and is forced to wait months or years to bring that employee over?

Look at the big picture and do not allow yourself to be blinded by self interest.

Then let me ask you this,
why keep CEC then? If they are gonna prioritize PNP holders or LMIA holders, why keep CEC as a separate category? if they are not going to give the same weights to applicants eligible under CEC, then they should just get rid of CEC and just have PNP and FSW so that they don't confuse people.

what you are saying would've made much more sense if they have gotten rid of CEC category for good.

plus, are you then saying everyone on PGWP with valid jobs to just ditch their current job and start looking for another, most likely in a smaller company requiring less qualification just to be able to immigrate like others?
would forcing PGWP holders to look for other jobs help improve the Canadian economy then? No, because you are forcing more qualified people with demonstrated better skill sets(it's the reason why we got chosen over local people in the first place) to give up their jobs just to make openings for local people who competed for those positions and lost in the first place.
You don't make a valid point at all.

and why would companies want to hire local people just to satisfy Canadian government?
it's not like companies hired us to avoid hiring local people you know, they hired us because we had better qualifications.
just by enforcing PGWP holders with valid jobs to get a new job with LMIA won't make it any easier for local people to get jobs. companies would still look for candidates with their standard.
If those local people didn't get hired in the first place after competing with PGWP holders, that just means they weren't qualified.

screwing PGWP holders and making them look for another job that can support LMIA will create more job openings for local people for sure. but these would be positions that they weren't qualified for in the first place.
If those local people that you are so worried about didn't get those jobs in the first place, they probably won't qualify for the new openings either.

You make it sound like PGWP holders are good-for-nothing nobodies who are just snatching job openings from local people.
But in reality, we are the ones that are actually helping Canadian economy grow with our skill sets.
and that's EXACTLY the reason why CIC created CEC category in the first place.

 

[itainttrue]

it seems like a lot of you don't get it and believe that the new system is working exactly as it should.
how does giving priority to people with lower language skills or to people who's never been in Canada before over people who had full education in Canada and have working experience in Canada with great language skills help Canadian economy in any imaginable way?

just to give immediate openings to local people?
You are so blinded by immediate concerns that you forget to realize that once these people get their PR, they become one of the so-called local people.
Are you then saying giving ITAs to people with lower language skills and working in LMIA-based positions because they weren't good enough to get hired by regular Canadian companies is better for Canada?
look at the big picture here.

 

[luckyb]

Hello itainttrue,

A few things to consider:
- You have 5 years of (work?) experience in your home country, would this not increase your score? (Assume you would consider FSW)
- You have worked 1.5 yrs now, so you have 1.5 yrs left on your PGWP, you've got time to wait this out!
Think on a bright side, another half a year more, you will have 2 years of Canadian experience, that will increase your score further

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I understand your frustration - I felt the same way a while ago when my old CEC application was in limbo (second review) forever.
I was so upset that I paid over 2k deduction every month, but yet I was not a PR. I 'contributed' to the economy.

I came to Canada to do my grade 12, finished university in the 5 years program (with coop), got hired after graduation and landed a decent job.
At one point, my old CEC was still under second review and I received ITA (my score was 466). I was considering to submit another EE application, as the processing time is much shorter.
And few days after, I got my MR/ RPRF from the old CEC. Needless to say, everything worked out well for me now.

I just want to say, there is nothing much that you could do with the immigration system in placed.
But on a bright side, your score is pretty high. I am confident that you will receive ITA soon.
I know the waiting part is really hard, but you'll get through it soon!

All the best.

 

[JB1234]

I am still shocked on you not being a permanent resident even after spending 16 years in Canada

 

[ButterflyChemist]

it seems like a lot of you don't get it and believe that the new system is working exactly as it should.
how does giving priority to people with lower language skills or to people who's never been in Canada before over people who had full education in Canada and have working experience in Canada with great language skills help Canadian economy in any imaginable way?

just to give immediate openings to local people?
You are so blinded by immediate concerns that you forget to realize that once these people get their PR, they become one of the so-called local people.
Are you then saying giving ITAs to people with lower language skills and working in LMIA-based positions because they weren't good enough to get hired by regular Canadian companies is better for Canada?
look at the big picture here.

You are the one passing judgments and name calling. EE entry is ranking system, not an immigration program. You keep talking about lower language skill and you assume that people who score around 300 points without a job offer or PNP nomination must have poor language skills which is not the case. They most likely score in that range if the are without Canadian experience.

Also, at no point did I say you PGWP holders should quit their jobs etc. You, however, need to realise that the impact of higher a foreign national is looked at during the LMIA process. Canada has determined that worker will have a positive impact on the labour force. Similarly, PNP holders have been deemed necessary by the provinces by whatever method they have in place so CIC says, OK, we'll let these guys come in first, they didn't say they would let ONLY those people in.

How am I blinded by immediate concerns and how can you possible know what my "concerns" are? All economic immigration categories remain and they will stay that way as CIC sees fit. LMIA workers aside, there have been many draws with cut off scores under 600 points and many PGWP holders have been chosen. It would seem that despite all your years in Canada etc you are still below many other CEC/PGWP holders in the pool and so you haven't yet received an ITA. Clearly, even in your own category (PGWP holders) there are many still more qualified than you. Wait your turn and stop complaining and denigrating other categories of workers. There's room in Canada for everyone.

 

[gss89x]

You studied for a very long period and you went back home. That was completely your choice, so you can't complain about that duration( 14 years). But yeah I agree EE is bit hard for people on PGWP. I know people who came here in 2011, completed a quick 2 years diploma and the are PR now. 8)

 

[itainttrue]

You are the one passing judgments and name calling. EE entry is ranking system, not an immigration program. You keep talking about lower language skill and you assume that people who score around 300 points without a job offer or PNP nomination must have poor language skills which is not the case. They most likely score in that range if the are without Canadian experience.

Also, at no point did I say you PGWP holders should quit their jobs etc. You, however, need to realise that the impact of higher a foreign national is looked at during the LMIA process. Canada has determined that worker will have a positive impact on the labour force. Similarly, PNP holders have been deemed necessary by the provinces by whatever method they have in place so CIC says, OK, we'll let these guys come in first, they didn't say they would let ONLY those people in.

How am I blinded by immediate concerns and how can you possible know what my "concerns" are? All economic immigration categories remain and they will stay that way as CIC sees fit. LMIA workers aside, there have been many draws with cut off scores under 600 points and many PGWP holders have been chosen. It would seem that despite all your years in Canada etc you are still below many other CEC/PGWP holders in the pool and so you haven't yet received an ITA. Clearly, even in your own category (PGWP holders) there are many still more qualified than you. Wait your turn and stop complaining and denigrating other categories of workers. There's room in Canada for everyone.

When did I ever say that there aren't more qualified PGWP holders than me?
and to add to your comment, I would've received ITA already if I didn't have a spouse.

Plus, I did not "assume" that people who score around 300 without a job offer or PNP to have lower language skills. I'm stating the fact based on what I've "seen".
There are plenty of people around me who've gotten ITA with poor language skills and crappy work, only because they have agreed to get paid lower wage and work like slaves in order to get LMIA.
I didn't say ALL of LMIA holders are like that but it's not hard to find example like that if you didn't know.
and like someone mentioned earlier, even people who've never been in Canada have gotten their ITAs already.
need I give you more examples to make my point?

and I don't mind giving PNP nominees priority. After all, their province wants them.
But what makes PGWP jobs any less valid than LMIA jobs?
If anything, it's PGWP holders who should be getting the bonus points, not LMIA holders.
why? because they have demonstrated that they have what it takes to qualify for a regular position at a regular Canadian company.

All I'm saying is, this ranking system is screwing with people in specific sector and the way it gives scores is unfair. You are the one missing my point and judging others.

 

[susana]

You mentioned that you are married, get your wife to write the IELTS or CELPIP if in Canada and get her credentials assesed by WES.

You have the choice to increase your points .
Applicants who got iTA with LMIA are skilled workers and many choose not to spent money on their ECA and spouses IELTS/ECA.

Many of them have university degrees and without the ITA and proper equivalencies their scores would be the same or higher than you.

They deserve the same opportunity as you .

 

[ButterflyChemist]

You mentioned that you are married, get your wife to write the IELTS or CELPIP if in Canada and get her credentials assesed by WES.

You have the choice to increase your points .
Applicants who got iTA with LMIA are skilled workers and many choose not to spent money on their ECA and spouses IELTS/ECA.

Many of them have university degrees and without the ITA and proper equivalencies their scores would be the same or higher than you.

They deserve the same opportunity as you .

+1 for you susana

 

[ButterflyChemist]

I'm surprised there hasn't been an argument about why married people should get more points because they are more stable etc.. Some people only find fault when things are not in THEIR favour. Personally I say give me EE over the previous first come first serve system. To each is own though so feel free to disagree.

 

[itainttrue]

You mentioned that you are married, get your wife to write the IELTS or CELPIP if in Canada and get her credentials assesed by WES.

You have the choice to increase your points .
Applicants who got iTA with LMIA are skilled workers and many choose not to spent money on their ECA and spouses IELTS/ECA.

Many of them have university degrees and without the ITA and proper equivalencies their scores would be the same or higher than you.

They deserve the same opportunity as you .

Another person who doesn't get the point...
I have no problem with LMIA holders whose score is higher than mine without the additional 600 points they got.
but I'm stating the fact that there are bunch of LMIA holders that received ITA whose score is in lower 300 range without the additional 600 points and have poor language skills and crappy jobs.
what makes PGWP jobs any less valid than LMIA jobs?
If you think about it, PGWP holders have harder time getting the job in the first place because they have to compete with local people. LMIA on the other hand can be given to people who agreed to accept lower wages and work like slaves.

Yes, they deserve the same opportunity as everyone else, but that doesn't mean likes of people that I mentioned in my examples should receive priority over people like me.

Easy for you to say "get your wife to take English tests and get her education assessed".
I'm working on that already but you don't get it do you?
I'm pointing out the unfairness of the system here.
so what if my wife goes thru all that trouble and time to get a few more points? max of 40...? laughable.
in the meantime, those people I mentioned in the examples have gotten 600 points for holding LMIA.

do you wanna talk about education level and skills? fine.
Where in the ranking system does it have any category for evaluating their "skills" and their "education"?
I actually want CRS to add a category like transcript from all schools, annual salary, company info, reference letter, etc.
holding university degree? big deal. most people have that anyway including me.
but does CIC bother checking their transcript to see how they really did in school? NO.
that way, CIC will be able to see who really is more skilled, before giving ITA to lots of LMIA holders with crappy jobs.

 

[curious_123]

They claim that this new system is to pick the best candidates that will benefit Canadian society but they've got it all wrong.

Clearly , you are not the best candidate... According to CIC the best candidate is people who has LMIA or PNP or high CRS score.... there were 3594 people with 600+ score and 4897 people who had higher score (453+) .... Let assume another 1509 people between the score 448 and 453, so approximately 10000 people above your score...so you are the 10001 best candidate to come to Canada (Assuming no more people are added in the mean time)

Just because you have Canadian education and Canadian work experience does not make you the best candidate... for example, a good candidate who really wants PR would made sure spouse IELTS and ECA is taken care of and stop crying in the blog....

 

[itainttrue]

Clearly , you are not the best candidate... According to CIC the best candidate is people who has LMIA or PNP or high CRS score.... there were 3594 people with 600+ score and 4897 people who had higher score (453+) .... Let assume another 1509 people between the score 448 and 453, so approximately 10000 people above your score...so you are the 10001 best candidate to come to Canada (Assuming no more people are added in the mean time)

Just because you have Canadian education and Canadian work experience does not make you the best candidate... for example, a good candidate who really wants PR would made sure spouse IELTS and ECA is taken care of and stop crying in the blog....

whatever dude.
If you don't get the point, too bad. learn to read and understand what other people are saying before commenting.
I have never called myself the best candidate.
I have never said that I'm more qualified than people who deserve the higher score.
I have never said that I should be granted ITA just because I have Canadian education and work experience.
It's people like you that doesn't understand the point someone's making and make wrong assumptions about that person.

I've only given examples of people who are clearly less qualified than most people under CEC and pointed out how unfair the system can be for people in specific sector(i.e CEC)

 

[ButterflyChemist]

Another person who doesn't get the point...
I have no problem with LMIA holders whose score is higher than mine without the additional 600 points they got.
but I'm stating the fact that there are bunch of LMIA holders that received ITA whose score is in lower 300 range without the additional 600 points and have poor language skills and crappy jobs.
what makes PGWP jobs any less valid than LMIA jobs?
If you think about it, PGWP holders have harder time getting the job in the first place because they have to compete with local people. LMIA on the other hand can be given to people who agreed to accept lower wages and work like slaves.

Yes, they deserve the same opportunity as everyone else, but that doesn't mean likes of people that I mentioned in my examples should receive priority over people like me.

Easy for you to say "get your wife to take English tests and get her education assessed".
I'm working on that already but you don't get it do you?
I'm pointing out the unfairness of the system here.
so what if my wife goes thru all that trouble and time to get a few more points? max of 40...? laughable.
in the meantime, those people I mentioned in the examples have gotten 600 points for holding LMIA.

do you wanna talk about skills? fine.
Where in the ranking system does it have any category for evaluating their "skills"?
I actually want CRS to add a category like annual salary, company info, reference letter, etc.
that way, CIC will be able to see who really is more skilled, before giving ITA to lots of LMIA holders with crappy jobs.

In all fairness it seems like you are the one who doesn't get it. CIC set there language requirements and these must be met, so in this case there is no such thing as "poor language skills"

A PGWP job is "less valid" as you put it because a PGWP is an open permit and so a PGWP holder can take ANY job, it does not have to be in any particular NOC category.

In the past there was abuse of the LMIA (LMO) system, however, those brought in on LMIAs have to be paid at similar levels as Canadians and PR according to the LMIA and an employer who breaches that is penalised if this is brought to the notice of appropriate agencies.

You should know how difficult it is to get an LMIA ( you stated that this is the reason your employer can't get meet the requirements to get you one) yet you devalue its importance to those who have gone through the trouble and expense to get one.

I don't know what you mean by crappy jobs but since EE is applicable to CEC, FSW and FST then it stands to reason that people with "crappy jobs " as you term it would not qualify.

As it relates to your point about skill, you should know that an ITA does not equal PR. The application will be processed under the rules of the applicable program and every criteria will be assessed.

You really need to take a step back and look at the big picture because it seems that your fundamental understanding of how this is supposed to work is a bit flawed.