CIC should revise this express entry system

[sensay]

It looks like LMIA doesn't even matter that much,since the score dropped below 600.it mattered in the first 4 draws but I don't see the cutoff score going above 600 soon.

I am pretty sure it will shoot up again though LMIA has became tougher these days. But there are candidates who have applied for PNP and are waiting. Once those people come in the scene the score will again cross 600+

 

[mf4361]

Would EE be better all round if they deleted that 600 points for LMIA? That way it would be a level playing field and the applicants with the best language, education and work experience would be chosen.

If LMIA worth nothing, it would against CIC's intention of employer-driven immigration system.

But assigning half of the point to just LMIA sabotage the opportunity of people with great potential but without a LMIA (Mind you lots of people already work in Canada don't get the point because LMIA was not required before. They all got trumped by cooks and admins who have LMOs, which was prone to fake pays and exploitation)

Not to mention, because EE is relying on employer's support on immigrant so much, it promotes crooked employers and immigration consultants to exploit their existing or prospective employees. Think of all the claims from consultants about getting you LMIA for a huge fee.

PNP-EE stream is so behind schedule (currently only BCPNP have given 600 points thru PNP) that as of now is pretty much non-existent. Provinces should have been ready to go when EE kicks off but it seems provinces never heard of EE until January 1. Government's bureaucratic efficiency.

 

[susana]

Again bud you are not trying to understand why so many people rejected your opinion... you are frustrated over only 3500 LMIA people who got ITA in EE.... however, you are not looking at the fact that when you were compared with people in high skill category with good salary like yours and Canadian education, they have higher points than you... You need to take blame for that , you should have ensured that your spouse had her IELTS and ECA done...that would bring your point to 478 and you would get your ITA long back....

I was exactly in your scenario with 446 points + Canadian education +IT job, the moment CRS score came out for the first time, I ensured my spouse had her IELTS done... I may or may not agree with you whether all LMIA is genuine or not... however those are very small number... of the 3500 who had 600+ score people, lets say 1500 people had fake LMIA , still you would not get ITA by now...

I ussually don't comment on situations like this , but the OP instead of expressing his frustration towards the system was clearly being scornful against those who work as Chef, Carpenters, plumbers , Restaurant Managers and many other high skill occupations and trades. Those people that he says are less educated than him or have a lower level of English than him might not have A's in their report cards, but might have a sense of humanity . I know many A students who are a failure in the field . Being an A student is not enough to succeed.

He does not know anything about those applicants and for him , they might have a crappy job, but i can assure you that is not for them. Mostly all the people who got an ITA with LMIA are under CEC , FSW, and FST , all of them qualified on their field. Luckier than him ? Oh yes, and i'm happy for them .


Not all the applicants who got an ITA have an LMIA, many with work permits who are LMIA exempt have being invited, He has not being selected yet among the ones within his category, so he either waits or gets the 40 missing points , and sadly two points can make a difference .

I really do not like people who undermines others due to their position in the work force or because they hold a higher diploma and i do agree that the system is not perfect .

 

[Pippin]

I understand the usefulness of an employer driven programme, but if it is rife with fraud what purpose does it serve? At least with WES and IELTS evaluations, one hopes there is minimal to no corruption in these companies.

 

[katja2684]

I am pretty sure it will shoot up again though LMIA has became tougher these days. But there are candidates who have applied for PNP and are waiting. Once those people come in the scene the score will again cross 600+

If CIC holds the draws every 2 weeks,I don't think there will be enough people in the pool with LMIA or PNP to get all the invitations. This is the only way the score could go above 600 again.

 

[itainttrue]

I ussually don't comment on situations like this , but the OP instead of expressing his frustration towards the system was clearly being scornful against those who work as Chef, Carpenters, plumbers , Restaurant Managers and many other high skill occupations and trades. Those people that he says are less educated than him or have a lower level of English than him might not have A's in their report cards, but might have a sense of humanity . I know many A students who are a failure in the field . Being an A student is not enough to succeed.

He does not know anything about those applicants and for him , they might have a crappy job, but i can assure you that is not for them. Mostly all the people who got an ITA with LMIA are under CEC , FSW, and FST , all of them qualified on their field. Luckier than him ? Oh yes, and i'm happy for them .


Not all the applicants who got an ITA have an LMIA, many with work permits who are LMIA exempt have being invited, He has not being selected yet among the ones within his category, so he either waits or gets the 40 missing points , and sadly two points can make a difference .

I really do not like people who undermines others due to their position in the work force or because they hold a higher diploma and i do agree that the system is not perfect .

sense of humanity is not what should be getting you ITAs, although it would be cool if it did.
plus, luck shouldn't play this big of a part when it can clearly mess with someone else's' lives.
Yes, I've been choosing more and more extreme words for the examples to make my points but don' you think it's because of people like you who chose to criticize me for pointing out the flaws of the current system?

and did you say "instead of expressing his frustration towards the system"?
in case you haven't noticed, I criticized the system in my initial post.
go read it before making false assumptions.
I've gone out of line by choosing extreme words because people like you chose to criticize me for criticizing the system. so stop with the witch-hunting, will you?

I'm happy for people most people who received ITAs but the point I'm making is that there are a lot of people who received it over clearly more deserving candidates. I'm sure there are plenty in CEC sector who got screwed by this new system.
If you are so humane, you should also feel sorry for them
you don't have to feel sorry for me cuz I've gone out of line to make my points to people who didn't see the point I'm making and chose to criticize me for criticizing the system.
but at least feel sorry for all other people who are waiting helplessly for ITA while many less qualified candidates are receiving it over them by your so-called "luck".

 

[Jaxon911]

I've had it with this Express Entry system.
CIC should revise this system as soon as possible.
They claim that this new system is to pick the best candidates that will benefit Canadian society but they've got it all wrong.

It's really ridiculous if you think about it.
People like me are apparently the biggest victim of this new system.
I have a total score of 448(0 points from spouse).
I scored perfect score on IELTS except on writing section,
I've been in Canada since 16 years ago and graduated from Canadian secondary school and university with superb academic standings.
I'm currently working in a big Canadian IT company with high salary on PGWP.
I got hired after competing with Canadian citizens because of my skill set
but I get no bonus points for working for a regular Canadian company.
Legit Canadian companies like mine can't come up with a reason to apply for LMIA because I competed for the position with Canadians fair and square.

BC has temporarily stopped receiving further PNP applications and legit Canadian companies like mine has hard time coming up with a reason(for LMIA) for "not being able to hire local people suitable for the position".
so basically I'm stuck at this point waiting helplessly for ITA.

However, even people with 300 points who barely met minimum score on IELTS, didn't go to any Canadian schools, and worked for small international agencies(for example) for being able to speak their first language got invitations already ONLY BECAUSE they received 600 bonus points for holding LMO/LMIA.
It's super easy for companies like that to come up with a reason for "not being able to hire local people suitable for the position".
Plus, they make only half my salary.

This has gone beyond the point that it's not even funny anymore.
No bonus points for working for a legit Canadian company, no bonus for high salary, no bonus for graduating from Canadian secondary&university, no bonus for achieving great academic standing.
and why do I need a job offer with LMIA to score additional 600 points when I already have a valid position?
Wow...just wow.

Why you should need LMIA for extra points? Because LMIA proves that you're truly worth those extra points, to be honest! If your employer isn't able to do LMIA for you, then in very simple terms it means they're not willing sponsor your visa, which means you don't get extra points.

If they start awarding BONUS points for every other thing you mentioned, you'd only be at a disadvantage again because bonus points will get awarded to everyone in the pool, which means cut-off score will increase accordingly.

Plus to an extent it seems that you'd like them to have a special system for candidates you, which isn't practically possible. You have a decent job, but there could also be people who don't have a good job but are working for Canadian company, CIC cannot make special rules to award you extra points but not to the other guy! However, they have LMIA for those qualified for extra points!

You also have to keep in mind, however tough Canadian immigration system may feel, it is one of the easiest immigration system if we compare it with those of US, UK and AUS IMHO!

One thing I couldn't understand is if you've been in Canada for 16 years, how did you fail to get into one of the FSWP?

However, you are wasting your time here, you've got 448 points which is a good score, you'll most likely get an ITA in next couple of draws!

 

[Jaxon911]

If CIC holds the draws every 2 weeks,I don't think there will be enough people in the pool with LMIA or PNP to get all the invitations. This is the only way the score could go above 600 again.

You're right, when EE started, there were many people waiting to get in with LMIA! But that's not going to be the case any longer.

 

[itainttrue]

Why you should need LMIA for extra points? Because LMIA proves that you're truly worth those extra points, to be honest! If your employer isn't able to do LMIA for you, then in very simple terms it means they're not willing sponsor your visa, which means you don't get extra points.

If they start awarding BONUS points for every other thing you mentioned, you'd only be at a disadvantage again because bonus points will get awarded to everyone in the pool, which means cut-off score will increase accordingly.

Plus to an extent it seems that you'd like them to have a special system for candidates you, which isn't practically possible. You have a decent job, but there could also be people who don't have a good job but are working for Canadian company, CIC cannot make special rules to award you extra points but not to the other guy! However, they have LMIA for those qualified for extra points!

You also have to keep in mind, however tough Canadian immigration system may feel, it is one of the easiest immigration system if we compare it with those of US, UK and AUS IMHO!

One thing I couldn't understand is if you've been in Canada for 16 years, how did you fail to get into one of the FSWP?

However, you are wasting your time here, you've got 448 points which is a good score, you'll most likely get an ITA in next couple of draws!

you are wrong. my company is doing all it can do to support me and I play a big role in the company.
if you haven't noticed, in order for employers to apply for LMIA, they need to give a good reason for "not being able to hire local people suitable for the position" which in this case is impossible because I competed with local people fair and square to get the job.
It's not like my company is an international agency where it needs someone who can speak a local language of the clients, that can come up with PLENTY of reasons like that.

This means many of high skilled PGWP holders working for a regular Canadian companies cannot get the additional points.
does this mean they are not worth the points? NO
most of them have much better jobs than LMIA holders in reality.

LMIA by no means proves you are truly worth the additional points.
don't look at it from one side, look at the big picture here.

 

[dobes]

I ussually don't comment on situations like this , but the OP instead of expressing his frustration towards the system was clearly being scornful against those who work as Chef, Carpenters, plumbers , Restaurant Managers and many other high skill occupations and trades. Those people that he says are less educated than him or have a lower level of English than him might not have A's in their report cards, but might have a sense of humanity . I know many A students who are a failure in the field . Being an A student is not enough to succeed.

He does not know anything about those applicants and for him , they might have a crappy job, but i can assure you that is not for them. Mostly all the people who got an ITA with LMIA are under CEC , FSW, and FST , all of them qualified on their field. Luckier than him ? Oh yes, and i'm happy for them .


Not all the applicants who got an ITA have an LMIA, many with work permits who are LMIA exempt have being invited, He has not being selected yet among the ones within his category, so he either waits or gets the 40 missing points , and sadly two points can make a difference .

I really do not like people who undermines others due to their position in the work force or because they hold a higher diploma and i do agree that the system is not perfect .

Great post. I understand the OP's frustration with the system, but agree with you about his expressed sense of superiority. +1

 

[Jaxon911]

you are wrong. my company is doing all it can do to support me and I play a big role in the company.
if you haven't noticed, in order for employers to apply for LMIA, they need to give a good reason for "not being able to hire local people suitable for the position" which in this case is impossible because I competed with local people fair and square to get the job.
It's not like my company is an international agency where it needs someone who can speak a local language of the clients, that can come up with PLENTY of reasons like that.

This means many of high skilled PGWP holders working for a regular Canadian companies cannot get the additional points.
does this mean they are not worth the points? NO
most of them have much better jobs than LMIA holders in reality.

LMIA by no means proves you are truly worth the additional points.
don't look at it from one side, look at the big picture here.

I'm afraid my friend but we're talking from different perspective. I didn't mean to judge people based on my personal criteria or based on their personal situation. I was talking purely from the CIC's rules perspective. If your employer isn't able to get an LMIA then that is it. You don't get extra points. LMIA is to fill a gap, if your employer cannot justify that there's a gap then the job isn't worth those extra points. I am certainly not implying that your or someone elses' job is low skilled or less valuable for the employer. But immigration system is not meant to allow all highly skilled people come in, it is primarily meant to fill the gaps.

And I agree with the other post. It's best to keep humanity and respect of others in mind when expressing frustration!

 

[bud_weiser]

Reading this post just seem to be typical stereo type. I understand the PGWP guys but also LMIA guys. Just as there is a need and space for a $9000 Kia sole car there is a space and need for a BMW. However BMW cant say we BMW so Kia is unfair and stealing our market share coz they inferior to us and sell more, or they corrupt.

Yes generally speaking LMIA jobs is not as great as PGWP jobs and they have to slog it out for 12 months before even been able to get considered for a program, but that does not mean they inferior to you PGWP guys it means in some instances they want it more and even smarter than a PGWP holder as not every one is blessed and privileged enough to pay high fees for university to get PGWP. Lots of LMIA holders accept abuse but only need to for a year, there after they to can study but without all the crap that goes with it after PGWP expire.

For my money I respect a LMIA holder and they deserve the points as these guys find a way unlike some PG that expect a way, and normally it’s the under dog that dethrone the king ……….in this case by 600 points the 75% that is real the other 25% LMIA’s that’s not I don’t believe CIC is stupid they been doing this long they will get found out……….

 

[mf4361]

I respect those working under LMO/LMIA and for sure that means something significant.

I just want to make one point I think many here don't seemed to recognize: PGWP deserves some treatment in immigration system because of Canadian-trained WORK experiences, not because of STUDY experiences and ability to pay high tuition in university. Hence, the CEC category granted special treatment for being already lived in Canada for some time and more likely to success. (So as others like ICT, IEC, etc)

"Yes, it's a lot of money and without taking a PR away it's not worth the money" - That's what a lot of students think. I don't think just because one studied in Canadian university as an international student deserves to stay. They deserves to stay because of the work experiences in the Canadian economy, trained by Canadians into Canadian standards of code. Because using foreigners who has Canadian skillset, as oppose to one experienced but not Canadian-trained, means a lower turnaround cost and promotes local training.

IMO the arguing point shall be not be "Who" is to be allowed to stay, but the fact that CIC is discrediting genuine work experiences that were exempted under LMO by CIC, and over-crediting those who are under it, which was a broken system anyway.

 

[itainttrue]

Reading this post just seem to be typical stereo type. I understand the PGWP guys but also LMIA guys. Just as there is a need and space for a $9000 Kia sole car there is a space and need for a BMW. However BMW cant say we BMW so Kia is unfair and stealing our market share coz they inferior to us and sell more, or they corrupt.

Yes generally speaking LMIA jobs is not as great as PGWP jobs and they have to slog it out for 12 months before even been able to get considered for a program, but that does not mean they inferior to you PGWP guys it means in some instances they want it more and even smarter than a PGWP holder as not every one is blessed and privileged enough to pay high fees for university to get PGWP. Lots of LMIA holders accept abuse but only need to for a year, there after they to can study but without all the crap that goes with it after PGWP expire.

For my money I respect a LMIA holder and they deserve the points as these guys find a way unlike some PG that expect a way, and normally it's the under dog that dethrone the king ..........in this case by 600 points the 75% that is real the other 25% LMIA's that's not I don't believe CIC is stupid they been doing this long they will get found out..........

how is it that LMIA holders "find a way" and PGWP holders "expect a way"?
It's not like PGWP holders are avoiding to apply for LMIA when they can.

Unlike LMIA holders who either wasn't working before getting LMIA or was working for a company that can come up with plenty of reasons for LMIA, PGWP holders will most likely have to give up their current job(which requires higher qualification, more pay, etc) and look for jobs that possibly require less qualification and pay less in order to receive LMIA.
It's not as easy as it sounds to just quit the current "better" job and go for "worse" one.
none of the PGWP holders are "expecting a way".
Hell, if I didn't have my current job, I'd go for a job in a company that can come up with plenty of reasons for LMIA right away. why wouldn't any PGWP holders?

 

[itainttrue]

I respect those working under LMO/LMIA and for sure that means something significant.

I just want to make one point I think many here don't seemed to recognize: PGWP deserves some treatment in immigration system because of Canadian-trained WORK experiences, not because of STUDY experiences and ability to pay high tuition in university. Hence, the CEC category granted special treatment for being already lived in Canada for some time and more likely to success. (So as others like ICT, IEC, etc)

"Yes, it's a lot of money and without taking a PR away it's not worth the money" - That's what a lot of students think. I don't think just because one studied in Canadian university as an international student deserves to stay. They deserves to stay because of the work experiences in the Canadian economy, trained by Canadians into Canadian standards of code. Because using foreigners who has Canadian skillset, as oppose to one experienced but not Canadian-trained, means a lower turnaround cost and promotes local training.

IMO the arguing point shall be not be "Who" is to be allowed to stay, but the fact that CIC is discrediting genuine work experiences that were exempted under LMO by CIC, and over-crediting those who are under it, which was a broken system anyway.

Thank you. you nailed the point that I was trying to make to those people(I failed because I have expressed my frustration and anger towards this new system in an extreme way)

just like you said, this new system is discrediting the PGWP holders under CEC category and over-crediting the likes of LMO/LMIA holders when a lot of us know that LMO/LMIA system is broken and can be exploited.

under this new system, PGWP-based jobs are not even considered as "VALID" jobs as CIC and a lot of these people put it, which is non-sense to me because these people fail to see that PGWP-based jobs generally require much higher skills and language fluency in English and that they deserve fair credit for having actual Canadian work experience in a regular Canadian company.