Work Permit at the Border. Expired previous work permit

[mosor]

Lol, that is hilarious. If you have a look through the forum, you will find MANY members, including myself, regularly quote IRPA. You will also find people "speaking with conviction" when they are completely wrong. Here are just a few of the many threads where I have quoted IRPA:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/section-5-1-c-of-the-citizeship-act-regarding-immigration.361572/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/got-rejected-post-graduation-work-permit-at-niagara-boarder.504848/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-with-student-permit-only-during-semester.303771/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/income-requirement-for-spousal-sponsor.396517/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/need-some-advice-pls-help.466743/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/permanent-residence-travel-document.361772/
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/how-to-visit.352981/

I'm not wrong. Even by your own admission, I'm right that you're visa exempt if you have status in Canada and visit the US and still have status when you come back. This will exempt you from having a work visa to apply at a land POE for a work permit. Our only point of contention is if a flagpole constitutes a visit to the USA. This point of contention can be resolved for anyone here interested, by calling a CBSA office at land POE and talk to a Border Services Officer who works immigration. This is a much simpler solution than applying for a work Visa at some consulate. That way you get it from the horses mouth.

You guys stated some people get rejected to apply for a for a work permit without work visa at the land border. Those instances are few and far between, and it's hard to find posts like that, because generally people are able to get them done there. I also stated the reasons, on those rare occasions why they still may need a work visa at a land border and get refused. If you don't think I know my stuff, then prove it, and show me legislation or policy, not anecdotal posts, where we don't know the full reason why these people were rejected.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I'm not wrong. Even by your own admission, I'm right that you're visa exempt if you have status in Canada and visit the US and still have status when you come back. This will exempt you from having a work visa to apply at a land POE for a work permit. Our only point of contention is if a flagpole constitutes a visit to the USA. This point of contention can be resolved for anyone here interested, by calling a CBSA office at land POE and talk to a Border Services Officer who works immigration. This is a much simpler solution than applying for a work Visa at some consulate. That way you get it from the horses mouth.

You guys stated some people get rejected to apply for a for a work permit without work visa at the land border. Those instances are few and far between, and it's hard to find posts like that, because generally people are able to get them done there. I also stated the reasons, on those rare occasions why they still may need a work visa at a land border and get refused. If you don't think I know my stuff, then prove it, and show me legislation or policy, not anecdotal posts, where we don't know the full reason why these people were rejected.

By my own admission? I never stated that, nor did I ever state that flagpoling did not constitute a visit to the US.

At the end of the day, people have been refused for this reason.

 

[mpsqra]

you need to apply to a work visa to activate your work permit

 

[mosor]

At the end of the day, people have been refused for this reason.

My bad you did not admit, but you made no argument against it other than pointing out you didn't think a flagpole was a visit. I took that as if you didn't disagree with the other stuff.

Here is my question:

A foreign national came to Canada 1 day before their TRV expired and was authorized entry for 6 months. They also hold a US visa and a week later they spent a day shopping in the USA and they came back at a Canadian POE. Would they be visa exempt if they still had status in Canada, even though the visa they used to get into Canada since expired? IRPA190 (3)f says they are. Do you disagree? Is their anything in that regulation that makes you think otherwise?

Now if they are visa exempt, then even by the CIC information you linked, they are exempt from needing a work visa to apply for a work permit.

At the end of the day, people have been refused for this reason.

And we don't know the circumstances why. Maybe their status expired and 190(3)f wouldn't apply.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

My bad you did not admit, but you made no argument against it other than pointing out you didn't think a flagpole was a visit. I took that as if you didn't disagree with the other stuff.

Here is my question:

A foreign national came to Canada 1 day before their TRV expired and was authorized entry for 6 months. They also hold a US visa and a week later they spent a day shopping in the USA and they came back at a Canadian POE. Would they be visa exempt if they still had status in Canada, even though the visa they used to get into Canada since expired? IRPA190 (3)f says they are. Do you disagree? Is their anything in that regulation that makes you think otherwise?

Now if they are visa exempt, then even by the CIC information you linked, they are exempt from needing a work visa to apply for a work permit.

I'm not sure if you misspoke in your first sentence but again, I never said that I didn't think flagpoling constituted a visit; a person who has flagpoled has officially left Canada, which by default means that they were in the US, even if only to be refused.

If there was no expired TRV in their passport, they would not be allowed entry; the TRV is still required, so they aren't visa-exempt. Visa-exempt = no visa required at all.

 

[mosor]

I'm not sure if you misspoke in your first sentence but again, I never said that I didn't think flagpoling constituted a visit; a person who has flagpoled has officially left Canada, which by default means that they were in the US, even if only to be refused.

If there was no expired TRV in their passport, they would not be allowed entry; the TRV is still required, so they aren't visa-exempt. Visa-exempt = no visa required at all.

That's wrong. If their visa expired and they still have valid status, and they only visited the USA, they are visa exempt when they come back. For instance if someone had a TRV valid for 1 year and was issued a 4 year study permit, they can still go to the USA and back after their visa expires.

Don't believe me, take it from the horses mouth. Here is a link to the CIC/CBSA enforcement manual regarding POE examinations. It's referenced on pages 67 and 68.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf04-eng.pdf

 

[canuck_in_uk]

That's wrong. If their visa expired and they still have valid status, and they only visited the USA, they are visa exempt when they come back. For instance if someone had a TRV valid for 1 year and was issued a 4 year study permit, they can still go to the USA and back after their visa expires.

Don't believe me, take it from the horses mouth. Here is a link to the CIC/CBSA enforcement manual regarding POE examinations. It's referenced on pages 67 and 68.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf04-eng.pdf

They can come back based on the fact that they have an expired TRV. No TRV = no entry.

 

[mosor]

They can come back based on the fact that they have an expired TRV. No TRV = no entry.

No. Expired TRV= No TRV. What gets them back into Canada is their previous unexpired status. Again here is the IRPA regulation 190(3)f:

(3) A foreign national is exempt from the requirement to obtain a temporary resident visa if they are seeking to enter and remain in Canada solely

(f) to re-enter Canada following a visit solely to the United States or St. Pierre and Miquelon, if they

• (i) held a study permit or a work permit that was issued before they left Canada on such a visit or were authorized to enter and remain in Canada as a temporary resident, and
  
  
• (ii) return to Canada by the end of the period initially authorized for their stay or any extension to it;
  

 

[canuck_in_uk]

No. Expired TRV= No TRV. What gets them back into Canada is their previous unexpired status.

The fact of the matter is that refusals can and do happen when non visa-exempt people flagpole because CBSA tells them they don't qualify to apply at a POE. These people are told by CBSA to apply at a visa office or online.

I'm done debating this with you.

 

[mosor]

The fact of the matter is that refusals can and do happen when non visa-exempt people flagpole because CBSA tells them they don't qualify to apply at a POE. These people are told by CBSA to apply at a visa office or online.

I'm done debating this with you.

And again a land POE is different than an airport POE, and that's what's probably confusing you. I gave you the legislation and I even gave you the CIC enforcement manual regarding POE examinations that all tell you the same thing and you can't concede that I have a point that it is possible to get a Work permit at the land border without a work visa and if work permit was issued it wouldn't have been in error.

This forum is meant to help people and instead you're trying to scare or confuse them by presenting ancidotal evidence of situations we don't have the full picture of and say that's the norm.

 

[peace365]

If they meet the elements of regulation 190(3)f, meaning that they already have valid status in Canada, that their status hasn't expired, and they are coming from the United States, even as a flagpole, they can apply for a work permit without a work visa. Now, if they are directly coming from the United States without first gaining status in Canada and they need a TRV, then yes they need a work visa. If their status expired in Canada and they flagpole without first applying for and getting restoration, then yes they need a work visa.

So will they be a 100% successful to apply for a work permit without a work visa at the border? Only if they meet all the elements of 190(3)f. If they don't meet one of the elements they can be refused.



Why do you say that? Personally if someone was quoting IRPA regulations not found on the CIC site, and spoke with such conviction about what the process actually is, I would have thought differently.

That makes sense to me. I will enter Canada as a visitor, get the status and later (in a day or two) I will do a flagpole or even enter US and then request for work permit on my way back to Canada. Let's see what happens..
Applying for work visa either from US or Canada will take 15-16 weeks (as of today). I feel it's better to give it a try at the land border.

I wish the person who started this thread post what happened in his/her case!