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the1forall

Full Member
Feb 10, 2014
29
0
Hello Members,

Its a long read but would really appreciate if someone can please throw some light on this matter.

This is the exact case:

My uncle, aunt and their two children got P.R. in May 2009. They went in May 2009 and came back to India in June 2009 after receiving their P.R. Cards. My uncle has vast businesses in India and thus could not wrap up and just leave for Canada permanently. They again went in May 2010 (entire family together) and my uncle opened a new business and also opened a branch of his Indian business (in Alberta, Canada). He then left for India in about a month leaving his Canadian partner in charge of his business. His wife and kids stayed back in Canada, studied in Canadian school for a year and then again came back to India after a year's stay. (aunt and kids went with uncle in May 2010 came back in July 2011)

In between my uncle kept on making trips back and forth from India to Canada for about 3 to 4 times. None of the family members have been to Canada after July 2011.

So basically my uncle has stayed in Canada for about 165 days and my aunt and their kids have stayed for about 380 days. Since July 2011 they all are in India and haven't gone to Canada. Their Canadian businesses are filing income tax returns since 2010 (Nil returns as they are not very profit making but they employ about 50 Canadians) and the businesses are taken care of by his Canadian Partner. He has maintained an excellent credit report throughout, never used any Government aid financially and has reserves of about CAD $ 30,000 lying untouched in his Canadian bank accounts since 3 years.
Now he wants to wrap up his Indian business and shift all operations of the same business to Canada (Company is already registered in Canada since May 2010).

P.R. expires in May 2014
Number of days completed by my uncle 165
Number of days completed by aunt and kids 380

They want to fly back to Canada in April 2014

1. Will they face any problems in entering Canada in April 2014? Will they be questioned by the Immigration authorities at the Canadian airport? (they have not completed 730 days and P.R. expiring in May 2014)

2. Would they be reported for their absence to CHC? What complications might arise if the Immigration authorities at airport report their absence to CHC?

3. Is it advisable for them to submit a P.R. renewal application to CHC Canada office from India before they fly to Canada in April 2014? (Application for P.R. renewal - IMM 5444E and Supplementary ID Form with all relevant documents)

4. They have active businesses in Canada (which employs 50 Canadians approx) and extremely good funds plus a strong intention to settle in Canada now. (it can be shown from the fact that their last year's Income Tax return of their Indian business did not have much income and it was filed as "Nil return" as they have wrapped up their business operation in India and are shifting base to Canada permanently) In this circumstances what are the chances that their P.R. cards would be renewed?

Request the esteemed members to please reply with as much information as possible

Thanking in anticipation

Many Regards

Michael
 
1) it's quite possible that they will be questioned.
2) it's quite possible that they will be reported. This will trigger the process leading to loss of PR status.
3) PR renewal can only be submitted inside Canada, so the question makes no sense.
4) This will not be a reason for them to keep their PR status, if reported. There is no H&C mitigation.
 
Agreed. If they wanted to keep their PR, they should have thought about meeting the RO. If your uncle had left his wife and children in Canada for another year, they would all meet the RO and his wife would have been able to sponsor him if he lost his PR but it is too late now to correct that mistake.

If their PR cards are still valid, it is possible that they will be able to enter Canada without being reported. If that happens, they should lay low and not apply for anything from immigration until they have spent at least 2 years and they should not leave for the next 2 years either for any reason. That is the price they pay for failing to meet the RO and wanting to set their PR status straight.

If they get reported, they can appeal this. They may stay in Canada for the 12-18 months that the appeal processing may take but this will not count towards their RO unless they win their appeal. With no H&C grounds, it is unlikely that they will be allowed to keep their PR.

If they qualify to apply under one of the immigrations classes there are today, they could of course renounce their old PR right now and apply again.
 
Thanks for the prompt reply friends.

So what is the next step they should do to avoid reporting or losing P.R. ??

Surely there must be something.

Entire family has U.S. multiple visa and they are going to fly on 21 April from Mumbai - New Jersey - Los Angeles and then directly to Calgary (L A to Calgary is by flight)

Is it a wise step? or should i ask them to cross US border and enter Canada by a car?

Also should they submit their P.R. renewal application right now or not??
 
It doesn't really matter HOW they enter Canada. The risk still exists. The USA land border "trick" is mostly used by those with expired cards, as they can't board an aircraft with them.

If they try to renew the cards without meeting the residency obligation requirements, they might as well report themselves... .
 
So Zardos what is the best option for them? Should they fly from L.A. to Calgary? or should they drive from L.A. to Calgary? and if they are not reported at the border what should they do?

Sorry for all the questions again and again but i would want to be really clear on this..

Thanks for your prompt responses
 
In my opinion, there isn't a "best option". A lot will depend on just who they meet at the Point of Entry.
If the officer who deals with them has had a really bad day, they will be in trouble regardless of where they enter.
It's possible that if they fly into a busy airport, they might just get waved through.. Nobody can guess.
 
If this was me, I wouldn't have got myself into this situation in the first place.
Given that 730 days in 1825 of residency is probably the most lenient in the developed world, and your Uncle couldn't even manage a fraction of that, it would suggest that he is not ready for Canadian permanent residency yet.

In his position, I would recognise this and not fight to keep my PR status. Then, once I had really decided that I was ready to make a life in Canada, and prepared to make the transition, reapply under a new immigration stream.
 
Hahaha Zardos....you are no doubt right in your answer.

But what if you do want to retain P.R. ?? in that case what would you have done?
 
All that they can do is try and enter the country normally and hope...

I would personally fly in on a standard flight and take my chances. Messing about on the USA/Canada border doesn't appeal to me at all.

At least at an airport, they might get lost in the crowd, especially if it's near the end of the shift for the CBSA officers.
 
One last question Zardos

Since they do have a valid P.R. card with them they will be atleast allowed to enter Canada right?

They will take a flight from L.A. to Calgary but the airport immigration officers will not deport them or confiscate their P.R. cards correct? :-X
 
Correct. They ARE permanent residents until it's formally revoked.

See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf04-eng.pdf (Section 11)
 
Zardoz one more thing which I could think of is this - Can they show that since they have business operation in Canada in the same name as Indian business they were in India as an "employee" of that Canadian business?

Is that possible or would that piss off the Canadian officers more that we are trying to bend the law?

Please share your input on the same

Regards
 
the1forall said:
Zardoz one more thing which I could think of is this - Can they show that since they have business operation in Canada in the same name as Indian business they were in India as an "employee" of that Canadian business?

Is that possible or would that piss off the Canadian officers more that we are trying to bend the law?

Definitely not possible. CIC shut down this loop hole years ago and will certainly not let them get around the rules this way. (If it was that easy to cheat the residency obligation, everyone would be doing it.)

To count the time spent outside of Canada, your uncle would have to first have been hired by a real Canadian company for a real job in Canada. After working in Canada for a while, the company could have then transferred him to a position outside of Canada. This is the scenario that would have allowed your uncle to count time outside of Canada as time in Canada.