Ray of hope - FSW - 1

[ConstanceM]

I hope they have a draw for FSW in March.

I don’t think it’s possible. Based on what I knew, IRCC are waiting and working on the enrollment of more CEC into the pool. Instead of making a draw on FSW, I think they may make another huge draw on CEC only AGAIN...I don’t think we could see a draw on FSW until end of 2021 (at least after Oct.)

 

[cansha]

Canada's top ranked university is ranked 29th in the world. Canada can never attract top talent like U.S.or Germany for that matter. Also after moving, one realizes that there is a lot of hype surrounding immigrating here. Nothing great tbh.

Canada and Australia both have no choice but to offer direct residency because it is hard to attract top talent. Most students who choose Canada and Aus do so only because of the work permit and eventual transition to permanent residency as means to a perceived better way of life. Its not because the academics in the two countries are great, it's just to live in a first world country.

Lastly, Canadian and Aus universities even though they have high entry requirements for foreign students, they don't hold the same weight as their counterparts in other countries do.

Canada is not a back door entry into the U.S or the U.S job market. Also salaries in Canada are much lower and there is a lot of nepotism too.

The direct residency pathway will always be open to attract talent that is left.

Very well written. And all are great points and lots of truth. Canada is a great option for many of us who want to live in a First World country but if Canada tried to restrict residency like USA they would not be successful in long run. Canada's charm is that they allow easier residency. Canada is nobody's first choice if they are looking for a great job market .. not even for Canadians. I worked in USA for many years and know of a lot of Canadian citizens who were dying to get a chance to work in the USA. The reason is very simple, it is almost impossible for a new grad here in GTA to make enough money to afford housing in GTA region. Hence, people want to move to US to make money.

Lot of people moved to Canada because of GC issues in USA and did not waste a single month in Canada once they got citizenship to move back to US for work. It is not to say that Canada is not a good country but the difference in salary is just too huge to ignore and if you moved in recently you are priced out of housing market.

People may argue that nepotism exists everywhere and it is true to a large extent. But given that opportunities are limited in Canada it is just more prominent and very hard to miss.

And for a first world country the number of fraud schemes that go on unabated is mind boggling. Just see CBC Marketplace on youtube and you would be surprised to see things that happen.

Having said all that, there are good things which are just too good to ignore. The healthcare system is much better than USA. Atleast you would not go bankrupt or untreated if you don't have private insurance. It has it's challenges but it largely works. The schools are more or less pretty good everywhere and you won't have to fight for that one good school district like in the USA. Also, crime rate in GTA is way lower compared to some of the large cities in USA and luckily much lower risk of gun related violence.

Whether one will like Canada or not depends on what stage of life you are and what things you value more. It is definitely not a bed of roses so be prepared to be shocked.

 

[willapp]

all CECs are invited. IRCC can only wait for a whole year for CECs to build up again. say 500 CECs per month join the pool (no way it's 500 per month considering the number of jobs available due to covid) it's 6000 CECs by December 2021. let's about double that and say 10000 CECs joined back in the pool by December and IRCC invited them all. that's just 2 5k CEC draws. also that'll mean they messed up their 2022 plans because it would literally mean there are no immigrants to land in 2022. if you invite all CECs in 2021, who are already in canada, it means you have nobody new landing in 2022. they just kind of have to conduct 5k fsw draws again somewhere between june - sept this year.

Many were not in the pool because they had low scores and many can accumulate work experience because they are given work permit extension for free so you are underestimating the potential numbers. There are almost half a million temporary residents in Canada and they are trying to invite those people to apply for PR.
FSW most definitely will come back in the future but the Immigration Minister has sent pretty clear signal that they will focus on inland people in the near future. They can also change the CEC criteria to make it easier for those people to qualify too.

 

[Igethope]

why did ircc reject for owing a company?

He didn’t state he’s a director in a company

 

[jrossi]

all CECs are invited. IRCC can only wait for a whole year for CECs to build up again. say 500 CECs per month join the pool (no way it's 500 per month considering the number of jobs available due to covid) it's 6000 CECs by December 2021. let's about double that and say 10000 CECs joined back in the pool by December and IRCC invited them all. that's just 2 5k CEC draws. also that'll mean they messed up their 2022 plans because it would literally mean there are no immigrants to land in 2022. if you invite all CECs in 2021, who are already in canada, it means you have nobody new landing in 2022. they just kind of have to conduct 5k fsw draws again somewhere between june - sept this year.

500 CECs por month? No way.
Man, the pool gets around 300 new candidates/A DAY in the 470+ range (which according to 2019 EE report, is a range occupied mostly by CECs, not FSWs).
Probably more than double of that (600/day) if we consider the whole 0-1200 range.

 

[Windsor37]

We're talking about slightly different things. In the example of vaccine research, the more well connected PhD is likely to get a job, not to mention, is much more likely to be interviewd in the first place. This is true regardless of country. It's not about canadians preferring canadians. We should be comparing similar profiles, so two PhDs both having equal work authorization int eh country, just that one has better conenctions in the industry.

Yes, but you're comparing people with similar credentials. Which means from an employer's perspective they're now only looking at the minor nuances which separates one applicant from another, this can go down to grooming, life perspectives and yes connections, none of which relates to roles and responsibilities of the job. Nepotism is explicit preference to someone you know, irrespective of another applicant's skillset.

 

[guelphite]

Very well written. And all are great points and lots of truth. Canada is a great option for many of us who want to live in a First World country but if Canada tried to restrict residency like USA they would not be successful in long run. Canada's charm is that they allow easier residency. Canada is nobody's first choice if they are looking for a great job market .. not even for Canadians. I worked in USA for many years and know of a lot of Canadian citizens who were dying to get a chance to work in the USA. The reason is very simple, it is almost impossible for a new grad here in GTA to make enough money to afford housing in GTA region. Hence, people want to move to US to make money.

Lot of people moved to Canada because of GC issues in USA and did not waste a single month in Canada once they got citizenship to move back to US for work. It is not to say that Canada is not a good country but the difference in salary is just too huge to ignore and if you moved in recently you are priced out of housing market.

People may argue that nepotism exists everywhere and it is true to a large extent. But given that opportunities are limited in Canada it is just more prominent and very hard to miss.

And for a first world country the number of fraud schemes that go on unabated is mind boggling. Just see CBC Marketplace on youtube and you would be surprised to see things that happen.

Having said all that, there are good things which are just too good to ignore. The healthcare system is much better than USA. Atleast you would not go bankrupt or untreated if you don't have private insurance. It has it's challenges but it largely works. The schools are more or less pretty good everywhere and you won't have to fight for that one good school district like in the USA. Also, crime rate in GTA is way lower compared to some of the large cities in USA and luckily much lower risk of gun related violence.

Whether one will like Canada or not depends on what stage of life you are and what things you value more. It is definitely not a bed of roses so be prepared to be shocked.

I'm from the US (citizen by birth) and moved to Canada on a work permit and am trying to make it permanent. Wages in some sectors, especially tech, are absolutely higher in the states. Much higher.

But holy eff is that country a mess and it is just going to get worse.

If you want to make a lot of money, have tons of police to maintain order despite the inequality and poverty, and have to pay for literally everything out of pocket, why bother? You can do that many places in the world. The appeal of Canada is something else... a promise that you won't be on your own. Sure it doesn't always succeed, no place is perfect, but that idea is worth more to me than money.

 

[guelphite]

As for FSW draws, I used to be completely confident they would restart in 2021. I do still think is the most likely outcome.

However I can also imagine situations (economy doesn't recover, perhaps Trudeau holds an election and loses to the conservatives) that things change. In that case, perhaps FSW will become much more targeted by language and profession, like Ontario PNP for example. That's probably the worst case scenario?

 

[Adam Tsao]

He didn’t state he’s a director in a company

Ah, thanks

 

[Windsor37]

Lol. The differentials in the examples you cite are just too big. Immunity may apply if you are a C-suite exec working in Europe for a multi-national company, and now want to move to Canada for some reason.

That PhD candidate you mention better be a Oxcam guy from EU, or a Ivy league guy from the U.S. I wonder why will they even want to move to Canada.

I know foreign PhDs driving Uber. One I know also teaches at a community college.(basic Finance 101). Now here's where nepotism would have worked: had this PhD known someone who is the chair, or Dean at a university(usually a much older fellow immigrant from the same country they would have taught at a university). If ones mom/dad/aunt/uncle/sister works in government, they can easily place their children in another department. (Because employees get transferred from one department to the other, so they know everyone in every department, just simple collusion)


Please talk to a lot people who are already here and I hope they open up. Many don't say a thing out of the fear of being looked at as anti-immigrant/unsuccessful.
Foreign credentials are not valued here unless they are from the top universities from respected first world countries.

For a first world country, this nepotism is just too much.

Here's one article(even foreign students with Canadian education are paid lesser):
Read Nicholas Keung's latest article on Toronto Star.

I am done with this topic.

And these foreign PhDs driving Uber, what are their PhDs at? Do their PhDs and skillset satisfy the current job market to the point that it's enough to make a leverage? If not, and they're competing in positions where small nuances can make a different of being hired and rejected, then they are at risk of "nepotism". I see a lot of openings in Canada for AI Data and Research Scientists, Software Design and Verification, and even in specialized medical fields some of which prefers hiring PhDs. I'm assuming their PhDs can do a lot more than teach Finance 101, so why don't they apply there?

If you say, well that's not what their specialization is at, or that's not where their skillset are, then probably "nepotism" isn't to blame here, rather the job market is simply not in their favor.

 

[coolgal]

And these foreign PhDs driving Uber, what are their PhDs at? Do their PhDs and skillset satisfy the current job market to the point that it's enough to make a leverage? If not, and they're competing in positions where small nuances can make a different of being hired and rejected, then they are at risk of "nepotism". I see a lot of openings in Canada for AI Data and Research Scientists, Software Design and Verification, and even in specialized medical fields some of which prefers hiring PhDs. I'm assuming their PhDs can do a lot more than teach Finance 101, so why don't they apply there?

If you say, well that's not what their specialization is at, or that's not where their skillset are, then probably "nepotism" isn't to blame here, rather the job market is simply not in their favor.

Nepotism is one of many factors. I didnt centre my whole argument on nepotism. But for a first world country, the level of nepotism stinks.

You will see it for yourself.

You are cherrypicking areas that may have seen a spike in demand. Do you think the entire applicant pool fits into those ? These people are smart enough to get a PhD but not smart enough to know where to apply ?

You expect people to get another PhD to meet the new demands ?

'Who you know and who they know' decides where one will be. Unless you hold patents or wrote international papers with the professors here, and they also like you.

 

[Windsor37]

Nepotism is one of many factors. I didnt centre my whole argument on nepotism. But for a first world country, the level of nepotism stinks.

You will see it for yourself.

You are cherrypicking areas that may have seen a spike in demand. Do you think the entire applicant pool fits into those ? These people are smart enough to get a PhD but not smart enough to know where to apply ?

You expect people to get another PhD to meet the new demands ?

'Who you know and who they know' decides where one will be. Unless you hold patents or wrote international papers with the professors here, and they also like you.

I expect people to do what they need to go, to get what they want to have. If you want a high-earning salary, and a new PhD is standing in your way then get a new one, if that what it takes to get you there. If there's a solid ROI, then why not? The same is true for immigration isn't it? Why are people here considering studying French? It's because the high CRS scores are in their way. They can't turn back time to get to a lower age, so they study French to boost their scores.

Survival is NOT given to the strongest (or smartest), but to those who can adapt the soonest. So either these Uber PhD drivers you mentioned adapt to the constantly changing job markets and make themselves more profitable, or just get stuck in what they have now and learn live to with it.

 

[coolgal]

I expect people to do what they need to go, to get what they want to have. If you want a high-earning salary, and a new PhD is standing in your way then get a new one, if that what it takes to get you there. If there's a solid ROI, then why not? The same is true for immigration isn't it? Why are people here considering studying French? It's because the high CRS scores are in their way. They can't turn back time to get to a lower age, so they study French to boost their scores.

Survival is NOT given to the strongest (or smartest), but to those who can adapt the soonest. So either these Uber PhD drivers you mentioned adapt to the constantly changing job markets and make themselves more profitable, or just get stuck in what they have now and learn live to with it.

Nobody is that desperate to come here(getting another PHD ? Lol). If one needs to do that, their immigration was simply a failure. Doing another is just trying to fix it. Now don't say they are to blame for it because they at that time like you now had a totally different picture in mind.

Just because there is demand and people are willing to learn French to immigrate doesn't change what's on offer once someone lands here.

That old saying 'the grass is always greener on the other side' comes to mind here. That is definitely driving the demand.

I don't want to spoil the party, sounds like it has already started here.

Have fun !!

 

[Windsor37]

Nobody is that desperate to come here(getting another PHD ? Lol). If one needs to do that, their immigration was simply a failure. Doing another is just trying to fix it. Now don't say they are to blame for it because they at that time like you now had a totally different picture in mind.

Just because there is demand and people are willing to learn French to immigrate doesn't change what's on offer once someone lands here.

That old saying 'the grass is always greener on the other side' comes to mind here. That is definitely driving the demand.

I don't want to spoil the party, sounds like it has already started here.

Have fun !!

That's one way to put it, but another reason why people from poorer countries strive to get to Canada is that there's no "grass" we can work to begin with.

My guess is those PhD Uber drivers you mentioned, if they do came from a poor country, is probably making more than twice than they would have, if they stick to the country where they are from and worked as a professor. This is coming from someone whose lives in a country that has an average ANNUAL salary of just $3,000. I wonder how much Canada Uber drivers make in a year.

 

[coolgal]

That's one way to put it, but another reason why people from poorer countries strive to get to Canada is that there's no "grass" we can work to begin with.

My guess is those PhD Uber drivers you mentioned, if they do came from a poor country, is probably making more than twice than they would have, if they stick to the country where they are from and worked as a professor. This is coming from someone whose lives in a country that has an average ANNUAL salary of just $3,000. I wonder how much Canada Uber drivers make in a year.

No grass is an equivalent to a war-torn country, and Canada has done a good job bringing those people in. That is a great humanitarian gesture.

Let me give you the punch line: Economic immigration for the most part is mere exploitation. The big bracket earners(doctors, lawyers etc) pay the highest taxes and that sustains the infrastructure, healthcare etc. The government only needs to fill in the middle, and lower level labour, and immigrants do that for them. Lot of volume here. I just feel sad to see good talent wasted.

So while the barriers to entry are high(CRS scores etc.), they don't give a damn when a PhD works at Tims or is driving a Uber. They are happy as long as one pays whatever taxes are due(big volume--lots of people). They are selling a dream, and people are buying into it.