Ray Of Hope-86th Draw

[BEA78]

Thanks Man

Do you have any links which will guide me on process of how to do that?

On this page you'll find the links to all PNP programs, except Quebec (they have their own program separate from Express Entry but you can check it out, too).
Some provinces require a valid job offer for nomination, some do not. You can read about each program in detail in their websites.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/provincial-nominees/eligibility.html

 

[vensak]

1. Are we referring to the same people? I'm talking about people with ~440 points as the context of conversations is going on. Spouse usually drag down the scores for these guys.

2. For people with <400 CRS, It would be better to let their spouses to become main candidate, assuming their spouses will have better score. If these people choose to let their spouses to become main applicant and their score go up to 400++. They fall back to the (1) situation already

3. For people with <400 CRS, and their spouses is worse than them. Yeah, sure if spouse have high IELTS and Bachelor will increase their scores. But isn't it will fall back to (2) which in turn fall back to (1)?

Of course there might be some out liner cases. But that generally is not the case for most of the people.

Again incorrect. You will loose certain points because of your spouse, but your spouse can give you even more points. So funny enough you can end up having more points if:
Your spouse has a university degree (Bachelor or higher) 8 to 10 points
And also has high language skills (CBL 9 on all 4 skills). 20 points
Because you will loose somewhere around 20 - 25 points from your score, but you can get back even more (28-30 points without any need to have anything Canadian).
And would there be a Canadian work experience there, then you would he hitting a jackpot.

What is happening that people are not really trying to max their points (not going for ECA or for the language assessments). And then they wonder why are they loosing points.

 

[benzboksas]

I may invite you to our group for TEF learning purpose, that's whatsapp group, just contact my sister @trumprefugee and she may arrange that.
Hope you get your desired score if you pass one more time.
Good luck!

Thank you for your best wishes.
I'm not using WhatsApp yet, but if I do I'll keep in mind this invitation. Thanks.

 

[OdinNguyen]

Again incorrect. You will loose certain points because of your spouse, but your spouse can give you even more points. So funny enough you can end up having more points if:
Your spouse has a university degree (Bachelor or higher) 8 to 10 points
And also has high language skills (CBL 9 on all 4 skills). 20 points
Because you will loose somewhere around 20 - 25 points from your score, but you can get back even more (28-30 points without any need to have anything Canadian).
And would there be a Canadian work experience there, then you would he hitting a jackpot.

What is happening that people are not really trying to max their points (not going for ECA or for the language assessments). And then they wonder why are they loosing points.

Dude read my post. If your spouse have Bachelor or higher and >=CLB 9 for all skills, why don't you let him/her become main applicant? Unless yours are also on the same ground and you even have Canadian Experience. If that is the case, you already had an ITA and will not sitting here arguing about this.

Some thing wrong with your logic that I am trying to point out.

 

[vensak]

Dude read my post. If your spouse have Bachelor or higher and >=CLB 9 for all skills, why don't you let him/her become main applicant? Unless yours are also on the same ground and you even have Canadian Experience. If that is the case, you already had an ITA and will not sitting here arguing about this.

Some thing wrong with your logic that I am trying to point out.

Your spouse might be missing a stable work experience for example. (thus mussing lot of transferability points)
Or your spouse might be older than you (age penalty).
Plus for just a bachelor degree you will not get full transferability either.

But from that very simple example you can see that it can give you plenty points.

Another example:
If you have spouse with CBL 7 on all 4 skills and a bachelor degree, that will give you back 20 points. But such profile by itself would not be very appealing as a main applicant (missing 50+ points on transferability).

And you can also get 21 points from a spouse that has just a high school but a perfect language skills. Which is again no suitable CRS points winner as a main applicant.

 

[rbnjacob90]

It is Masters. Bachelors and Masters are not dual degrees.

thanks a lot!!

 

[OdinNguyen]

Your spouse might be missing a stable work experience for example. (thus mussing lot of transferability points)
Or your spouse might be older than you (age penalty).
Plus for just a bachelor degree you will not get full transferability either.

But from that very simple example you can see that it can give you plenty points.

Another example:
If you have spouse with CBL 7 on all 4 skills and a bachelor degree, that will give you back 20 points. But such profile by itself would not be very appealing as a main applicant (missing 50+ points on transferability).

It still does not make sense to me. 20/40 is only 50%. People who can be consider competitive must be ~440 which is > 50% of 600.

And who the hell is the spouse who has high degree, high language skill but no job experiences? Not even take into account that most old people don't even have high language skills to begin with.

Yes, on paper, I admit you are correct. What I'm trying to say is that this will rarely happen in real life situation. Try to find me someone who has CLB 9+, master degree, 35+ years old and have no job since graduate. Things are not added up.

 

[rohitpahwa]

On this page you'll find the links to all PNP programs, except Quebec (they have their own program separate from Express Entry but you can check it out, too).
Some provinces require a valid job offer for nomination, some do not. You can read about each program in detail in their websites.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/provincial-nominees/eligibility.html

Looks like only ontario is the only one which lets you apply without a job offer or french as first language

 

[Addy123]

It was Ray of hope when scores were 413, now it is ray that confirm a need to retake IELTS for 8777

Made my day

 

[prpurohit]

Your spouse might be missing a stable work experience for example. (thus mussing lot of transferability points)
Or your spouse might be older than you (age penalty).
Plus for just a bachelor degree you will not get full transferability either.

But from that very simple example you can see that it can give you plenty points.

Another example:
If you have spouse with CBL 7 on all 4 skills and a bachelor degree, that will give you back 20 points. But such profile by itself would not be very appealing as a main applicant (missing 50+ points on transferability).

And you can also get 21 points from a spouse that has just a high school but a perfect language skills. Which is again no suitable CRS points winner as a main applicant.

Hi @vensak , we were specifically discussing a young man's case who had maxed out his IELTS and ECA and yet had 440 point. The discussion was if having a spouse was an advantage or not. In his case having a spouse was not an advantage.
No doubt spouse's ECA and ielts can compensate for the points lost due to married status. But the point is that it compensates what's lost and does not add anything further.
So for someone who is unmarried and at 440 with maxed out ECA and ielts, having a spouse is not necessarily an advantage unless the spouse has better education and work experience...in which case she should be the primary applicant.

 

[BEA78]

It still does not make sense to me. 20/40 is only 50%. People who can be consider competitive must be ~440 which is > 50% of 600.

And who the hell is the spouse who has high degree, high language skill but no job experiences? Not even take into account that most old people don't even have high language skills to begin with.

Yes, on paper, I admit you are correct. What I'm trying to say is that this will rarely happen in real life situation. Try to find me someone who has CLB 9+, master degree, 35+ years old and have no job since graduate. Things are not added up.

There are so many possibilities, it has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

For example: I have a Bachelor's degree, CLB 10, but no work experience in the last 5 years, because I left my job to care for our kids while they were still young, and just now looking to get back into the workforce. My husband has a master's, CLB 9 and lots of experience, hence he is the main applicant even though he is older than me (because the age points difference is less than the work experience issue). But my degree and language level, has given him 28 points. Oh and another 15 for my Canadian PR brother. So even though I may not have worked in 5 years, I think I have given him a considerable boost . If I hadn't gotten the ECA and IELTS he would've just lost a lot of points. And I do know many families with a similar situation.
Even if that wasn't the case, any points you can get for your spouse can make a difference, so yeah I agree with the poster that said spouses should get ECA and sit for IELTS if possible.

BTW, what do you consider old? Hahaha, I'm sure the majority of EE applicants are 45 and under (but I disagree about old people not having high language skills, a lot of "old" people are bilingual)

 

[vensak]

It still does not make sense to me. 20/40 is only 50%. People who can be consider competitive must be ~440 which is > 50% of 600.

And who the hell is the spouse who has high degree, high language skill but no job experiences? Not even take into account that most old people don't even have high language skills to begin with.

Yes, on paper, I admit you are correct. What I'm trying to say is that this will rarely happen in real life situation. Try to find me someone who has CLB 9+, master degree, 35+ years old and have no job since graduate. Things are not added up.

Example one:
He has a master degree but is 39 years old. He has plenty work experience and very high language skills. But because of the age he would be penalized heavily.

She has a 3 bachelor degree and then 1 year of additional specialized a accounting studies. She is 31 and has just 3 years of a consistent work experience (they have 2 children so she was at home for some time).

Who is better to be the main applicant? She of course.
But since he has his diploma and strong language skills he will give her plenty points while there will be almost no age penalisation there.

I do not understand where do you get those -40 points from.
Let me take simulation example:
Main:
30 years old 105 / 95
dual diploma 128 / 119
CBL 9 124 / 116
Netto difference - 27 points.

Transferability points, Canadian education, siblings, French bonus and the second language are not affected if you have a spouse or not
Only other thing affected is Canadian work experience (but if you get that one, your score usually is over 450).

Second example:
35 years old 77 / 70
3 years bachelor diploma 120 / 112
CBL 10 136 / 128

Netto difference - 23 points

So again where are your 40 points coming from?

 

[OdinNguyen]

Example one:
He has a master degree but is 39 years old. He has plenty work experience and very high language skills. But because of the age he would be penalized heavily.

She has a 3 bachelor degree and then 1 year of additional specialized a accounting studies. She is 31 and has just 3 years of a consistent work experience (they have 2 children so she was at home for some time).

Who is better to be the main applicant? She of course.
But since he has his diploma and strong language skills he will give her plenty points while there will be almost no age penalisation there.

I do not understand where do you get those -40 points from.
Let me take simulation example:
Main:
30 years old 105 / 95
dual diploma 128 / 119
CBL 9 124 / 116
Netto difference - 27 points.

Transferability points, Canadian education, siblings, French bonus and the second language are not affected if you have a spouse or not
Only other thing affected is Canadian work experience (but if you get that one, your score usually is over 450).

Second example:
35 years old 77 / 70
3 years bachelor diploma 120 / 112
CBL 10 136 / 128

Netto difference - 23 points

So again where are your 40 points coming from?

Oh my god, did you even read the CRS point distribution website? It is at the top table in the page: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/become-candidate/criteria-comprehensive-ranking-system/grid.html

Like I said another million times. You calculation is good on paper. I already admitted that. It just does not make sense in real life. Just find me two real cases that are the same as what you are saying.

Oh wait, never mind, I really don't want to drag this conversation further. I already made my points and you already made yours. Let's call it a day.

 

[OdinNguyen]

There are so many possibilities, it has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

For example: I have a Bachelor's degree, CLB 10, but no work experience in the last 5 years, because I left my job to care for our kids while they were still young, and just now looking to get back into the workforce. My husband has a master's, CLB 9 and lots of experience, hence he is the main applicant even though he is older than me (because the age points difference is less than the work experience issue). But my degree and language level, has given him 28 points. Oh and another 15 for my Canadian PR brother. So even though I may not have worked in 5 years, I think I have given him a considerable boost . If I hadn't gotten the ECA and IELTS he would've just lost a lot of points. And I do know many families with a similar situation.
Even if that wasn't the case, any points you can get for your spouse can make a difference, so yeah I agree with the poster that said spouses should get ECA and sit for IELTS if possible.

BTW, what do you consider old? Hahaha, I'm sure the majority of EE applicants are 45 and under (but I disagree about old people not having high language skills, a lot of "old" people are bilingual)

You only gave him a big boost because of your Canadian brother Canadian PR brother +15 points. You need to follow the whole discussion to know what we are talking about. We never say anything about Canadian PR siblings.

By the way, with your profile you would get ITA sooner or later. Which in return out of the discussion on the topic that we are talking about.

One more time, please read the discussion from the beginning. Don't just jump into the middle.

 

[vensak]

You only gave him a big boost because of your Canadian brother Canadian PR brother +15 points. You need to follow the whole discussion to know what we are talking about. We never say anything about Canadian PR siblings.

By the way, with your profile you would get ITA sooner or later. Which in return out of the discussion on the topic that we are talking about.

One more time, please read the discussion from the beginning. Don't just jump into the middle.

Without her Canadian brother she already gave him 28 points. Which is more than what he lost for being married.

And her testimony is your real example.

Reality check. every year app. 3 000 000 people wants to get to Canada. (and that number is rising proportionally with the population explosion in some countries).
That is 10x more than the whole yearly quota.

So at the end of the day it is all about competition.
And yes those paper examples are hard but NOT impossible to reach. And if there will be enough people to reach them, then of course competition will be harder. So even your spouse needs to bring in points and not just to take a free ride.

What I understand as completely unfair for all those married when they are trying hard to get all CRS points together, are the cases where one suddenly decides to marry right after his AOR. And I strongly doubt that it is Las Vegas type of a decision.

But again that is for immigration to cope with it and see where it will lead.