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Ray of Hope - 145th Draw - CEC

indianstudent96

Hero Member
May 22, 2017
778
525
Ontario, Canada
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
CPC Sydney
NOC Code......
2281
App. Filed.......
27-06-2020
Doc's Request.
18-08-2020
AOR Received.
27-06-2020
Med's Done....
16-04-2020
I think eventually, there will be quotas placed on the number of immigrants they accept from one country in express entry annually

I think whenever there is an influx of immigrants from one country like there is now from India, there will be calls for limiting their numbers.

I prefer a purely meritocratic system, but i think there will be a growing number of voices saying that to protect Canada's demographics, it should place constraints on the number of immigrants coming from one country, especially when it dominates EE as much as it does.

But i don't think you have to worry about that immediately, i think there are still a few years before this stance gathers momentum politically.
I respectfully disagree. If they implement quotas, it will be just as disastrous as the US. People wanting to immigrate legally will find ways to stay back in the country legally. As I said earlier, the wait time for EB-2 green card (permanent residency) is 151 years for people born in India (their citizenship does not matter just the country of birth). The quota system will do the same to the Express Entry system and it will lead to immigrants who don't best fit the needs of the Canadian economy. The immigration system will evolve over the period of time but implementing quotas will be devolution. Most FSW outland candidates have to have a Master's degree, excellent English, and 3+ years of foreign skilled work experience to immigrate. I don't see how Indians have a systematic advantage over say someone from other Asian countries.

Just out of curiosity, who will be calling for limiting their numbers? If that really happens, that would be as bad as the Chinese Exclusion Act.
 
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Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
2,110
1,338
I respectfully disagree. If they implement quotas, it will be just as disastrous as the US. People wanting to immigrate legally will find ways to stay back in the country legally. As I said earlier, the wait time for EB-2 green card (permanent residency) is 151 years for people born in India (their citizenship does not matter just the country of birth). The quota system will do the same to the Express Entry system and it will lead to immigrants who don't best fit the needs of the Canadian economy. The immigration system will evolve over the period of time but implementing quotas will be devolution. Most FSW outland candidates have to have a Master's degree, excellent English, and 3+ years of foreign skilled work experience to immigrate. I don't see how Indians have a systematic advantage over say someone from other Asian countries.

Just out of curiosity, who will be calling for limiting their numbers? If that really happens, that would be as bad as the Chinese Exclusion Act.
I think there is a way to make it work, in the sense that let's say the quota is 40k per annum, once that quota is met during the year, the profiles from that country of origin would be inelligible until next year, when the quota resets again and your profile is elligible. You'd still benefit in a tie-breaker situation based on when you submitted your profile. The reason why i don't think it will get as bad as the U.S is because they have an antiquated, first come first served system, whereas EE is still competition-based and you will still rise to the top based on your score.

I understand your point on having the most qualified people, but there is also the question of how much it affects demographics in the country. I think a quota system would somewhat balance that out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/02/03/indians-immigrating-to-canada-at-an-astonishing-rate/#214bfb442b5f

So that's more than 80k PRs from India in 2019 out of around 90k in total for express entry, i don't think that level of immigration from only one country is sustainable politically.

People will start saying if it continues unabated for a consistent period that it will change Canada's demographics too drastically.

Immigration is still a hot button issue here, and i think many conservatives will not like having such a significant number of immigrants from one country.

There is still talks of mass immigration being an issue here, and immigration in general is becoming less popular among Canadians, with many polls stating Canadians think that Canada is accepting too many immigrants.

I actually think the main problem is the U.S, if the number of people on H1B visas remained in the U.S and pursued PR there, this would not become an issue. But because of Trump and his anti-immigrant policies, many of them are jumping ship and applying to Canada. That also boosts the numbers significantly.

I'm not saying this to be negative, and it won't affect any of you immediately, but it's an interesting discussion which i think will occur in the near future.
 
Last edited:

indianstudent96

Hero Member
May 22, 2017
778
525
Ontario, Canada
Category........
CEC
Visa Office......
CPC Sydney
NOC Code......
2281
App. Filed.......
27-06-2020
Doc's Request.
18-08-2020
AOR Received.
27-06-2020
Med's Done....
16-04-2020
I think there is a way to make it work, in the sense that let's say the quota is 40k per annum, once that quota is met during the year, the profiles from that country of origin would be inelligible until next year, when the quota resets again and your profile is elligible. You'd still benefit in a tie-breaker situation based on when you submitted your profile. The reason why i don't think it will get as bad as the U.S is because they have an antiquated, first come first served system, whereas EE is still competition-based and you will still rise to the top based on your score.

I understand your point on having the most qualified people, but there is also the question of how much it affects demographics in the country. I think a quota system would somewhat balance that out.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/02/03/indians-immigrating-to-canada-at-an-astonishing-rate/#214bfb442b5f

So that's more than 80k PRs from India in 2019 out of around 90k in total for express entry, i don't think that level of immigration from only one country is sustainable politically.

People will start saying if it continues unabated for a consistent period that it will change Canada's demographics too drastically.

Immigration is still a hot button issue here, and i think many conservatives will not like having such a significant number of immigrants from one country.

There is still talks of mass immigration being an issue here, and immigration in general is becoming less popular among Canadians, will many polls stating Canadians think that Canada is accepting too many immigrants.

I actually think the main problem is the U.S, if the number of people on H1B visas remained in the U.S and pursued PR there, this would not become an issue. But because of Trump and his anti-immigrant policies, many of them are jumping ship and applying to Canada. That also boosts the numbers significantly.

I'm not saying this to be negative, and it won't affect any of you immediately, but it's an interesting discussion which i think will occur in the near future.
Again, that system will not work due to a number of reasons. Let's talk about this hypothetical situation, assuming the current cut-off trend is around 470s and I just qualified for Express Entry with a score that will get me an ITA in the next round; however, I can't get it due to the quota system and I would have to wait until 2021 to qualify, this is what would happen: the cut-off score will plummet to below 450 and will probably have small up-downs until the quota resets by the new year. The first few draws after the new year will have insanely high cut-off scores which will again take nose dive after the quotas are fulfilled. Now, 475 in mid-2020 will not be sufficient in early 2021 in this hypothetical situation, meaning candidates with sub-par language skills from other countries will get a chance to immigrate ahead of someone with almost native English speaker level proficiency.

This is my experience (anecdotal), Canadians, in general, oppose high immigration targets only for valid reasons. The valid reasons are lack of English (or French) proficiency, inability to assimilate (living in their own communities), low level of education, older people who are more likely to strain the social welfare system, values (kind of included in assimilation factor), and asylum seekers (not refugees). Express Entry address all these factors except assimilation (hard to predict it) and that's how the Comprehensive Ranking System was established. My English has really made the difference between being employed and under-employed.


I am not gonna jump into the views of the extreme-right as most of their views are questionable and hypocritical. In short, some Canadians think Canada is accepting too many immigrants because of the quality of immigrants they see around them. These are probably the effects of immigration in the last decade or 5 years. A quota system will only increase this anti-immigrant sentiment.

I believe the current system should not be compromised in the name of diversity. The US has a controversial diversity immigration lottery system (something along those lines) and most people are not fond of it. Let's hope Canada does not go down that path.
 
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Islander216

Champion Member
Nov 27, 2019
2,110
1,338
Again, that system will not work due to a number of reasons. Let's talk about this hypothetical situation, assuming the current cut-off trend is around 470s and I just qualified for Express Entry with a score that will get me an ITA in the next round; however, I can't get it due to the quota system and I would have to wait until 2021 to qualify, this is what would happen: the cut-off score will plummet to below 450 and will probably have small up-downs until the quota resets by the new year. The first few draws after the new year will have insanely high cut-off scores which will again take nose dive after the quotas are fulfilled. Now, 475 in mid-2020 will not be sufficient in early 2021 in this hypothetical situation, meaning candidates with sub-par language skills from other countries will get a chance to immigrate ahead of someone with almost native English speaker level proficiency.
I think it works, it's just whether you think it's desirable or not, which is obviously at the person's discretion. But IEC works in a similar manner already from what i understand, as there are allotments by country. So it's not something new to implement for IRCC.

I think you're underestimating the rest of the pool a bit, there are still highly competitive candidates from other countries, i don't think if let's say this was imposed on one country, that cut-off scores would go down sub 450. It would definitely go down, but i don't think to that extend, and the vast majority of candidates would have at least CLB 9 at those scores which is good enough to immigrate to Canada.

This is my experience (anecdotal), Canadians, in general, oppose high immigration targets only for valid reasons. The valid reasons are lack of English (or French) proficiency, inability to assimilate (living in their own communities), low level of education, older people who are more likely to strain the social welfare system, values (kind of included in assimilation factor), and asylum seekers (not refugees). Express Entry address all these factors except assimilation (hard to predict it) and that's how the Comprehensive Ranking System was established. My English has really made the difference between being employed and under-employed.
I think all of those reasons are valid. But i think the biggest issue with having a lot of immigrants from one country is precisely this risk of ghettoisation, these immigrants over time will have this tendency to group together in neighbourhoods and become less likely to assimilate. And we see a lot of that in Europe. Now of course, these immigrants are still highly educated, well qualified, and productive people, so i don't want to overstated this point, but with so many people from one country, it does also create the potential for a lack of assimilation.

I am not gonna jump into the views of the extreme-right as most of their views are questionable and hypocritical. In short, some Canadians think Canada is accepting too many immigrants because of the quality of immigrants they see around them. These are probably the effects of immigration in the last decade or 5 years. A quota system will only increase this anti-immigrant sentiment.

I believe the current system should not be compromised in the name of diversity. The US has a controversial diversity immigration lottery system (something along those lines) and most people are not fond of it. Let's hope Canada does not go down that path.
Well, in the last 5 years EE has been the main system to immigrate to Canada, so not much has changed.

I think anti-immigrant sentiment is about jostling for resources in society, with people here wanting opportunities and progression, and finding immigrants to be unnecessary competition in the job and housing markets. But i do think that having immigration dominated by one group could act as a lightening rod for wider anti-immigrant sentiment, such as we've seen in Europe and the US.

But i think this isn't something which will happen now or even necessarily in the next few years, but if the Conservatives win the next election, i would not be surprised if they implemented something similar to what i've elicited.
 

dipen135

Full Member
Jun 15, 2019
22
3
Category........
CEC
For CEC only draws, if a person has 1 year of foreign work experience and 1 year of Canadian work experience, will he get points for both work experience or will he get points only for Canadian work experience?
 

ZAtoCD

Champion Member
Nov 3, 2019
1,133
1,329
South Africa
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
1123
Again, that system will not work due to a number of reasons. Let's talk about this hypothetical situation, assuming the current cut-off trend is around 470s and I just qualified for Express Entry with a score that will get me an ITA in the next round; however, I can't get it due to the quota system and I would have to wait until 2021 to qualify, this is what would happen: the cut-off score will plummet to below 450 and will probably have small up-downs until the quota resets by the new year. The first few draws after the new year will have insanely high cut-off scores which will again take nose dive after the quotas are fulfilled. Now, 475 in mid-2020 will not be sufficient in early 2021 in this hypothetical situation, meaning candidates with sub-par language skills from other countries will get a chance to immigrate ahead of someone with almost native English speaker level proficiency.

This is my experience (anecdotal), Canadians, in general, oppose high immigration targets only for valid reasons. The valid reasons are lack of English (or French) proficiency, inability to assimilate (living in their own communities), low level of education, older people who are more likely to strain the social welfare system, values (kind of included in assimilation factor), and asylum seekers (not refugees). Express Entry address all these factors except assimilation (hard to predict it) and that's how the Comprehensive Ranking System was established. My English has really made the difference between being employed and under-employed.


I am not gonna jump into the views of the extreme-right as most of their views are questionable and hypocritical. In short, some Canadians think Canada is accepting too many immigrants because of the quality of immigrants they see around them. These are probably the effects of immigration in the last decade or 5 years. A quota system will only increase this anti-immigrant sentiment.

I believe the current system should not be compromised in the name of diversity. The US has a controversial diversity immigration lottery system (something along those lines) and most people are not fond of it. Let's hope Canada does not go down that path.
This makes no sense. Why would the CRS plummet to 450? Are you seriously suggesting that without India, there are not enough high-scoring candidates looking to live in Canada?

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment that Canada may deem a geo cap to be necessary eventually. And if they do, they will implement it, and there's nothing we can do about it. Fairness is one of Canada's values, yes, but that applies to allowing a fair shot for people from all different cultures into the country.

If a particular country has an enormous population and floods the EE pool every year, you may end up with Canada becoming, as one member here put it earlier, a 2.0 version of that foreign country. That might not play well into political stability. And it certainly doesn't play well into the kind of culturally diverse landscape that Canada prides itself on.

I'm from South Africa, and I would have no problem at all having to wait longer because, hypothetically, there were just too many South Africans already accepted into Canada this year. Fortunately, that's not the case, but if it was, I wouldn't scream about being "marginalized". Their government is allowed to set up the EE system in whichever way they please.

I agree with you, @Islander216, in that if Canada figures they can still receive those 470+ candidates to meet the quota every year, but can also put caps on countries based on population size, or historical emigration, etc. they may (and should be able to) do that.

Yes, EE is merit-based, but they can still say the highest scoring candidates from Country X can enter, up to 1,000 people, then we cap and move to the next one. That's still merit-based. Not as merit-based as just leaving it all open and allowing whomever scores highest in the pool to enter, but it's still merit-based. Just with a layer of geo capping on top of it.

It wouldn't be racism, it wouldn't be "marginalization", it wouldn't be unfair discrimination. It would be Canada deciding to protect its cultural diversity through tweaking the EE system. I fully understand how this might upset some people, but if I could accept that (and I haven't even received an ITA yet), then others should be able to as well.

The point is, Canada has come as far as it has, and is one of the best nations in the world to live in. Hence, I assume, why we're all in this forum. The government, through IRCC, is going to do whatever they think is best for Canada, regardless of the opinions of potential immigrants overseas, and I trust that they know what they're doing. They've done more than well enough thus far.
 

milanoforza

Member
Jul 25, 2019
10
8
Border controls have nothing to do with FSW draws. The process is long drawn out after an ITA, atleast 6 to 8 months. I wonder how can you say "the best situation is FSW reopens after June". Have you considered the thousands of people who would have lost points because of age during this time. Quite frankly, they are the only ones who lost out on an opportunity would absolutely disagree with you.
Simple question: are u losing the 5 points because of getting old or the COVID-19? I didn't set up the rule, Canada does. They want younger folks to come here more and contribute to the development here. Cause Canada is already an AGING society. U can just say Canada discriminate against people who past 30 or people working outland. But who cares.

I'm just saying my prediction about when FSW reopens. Logic is simple, if it was not because of COVID19 why they would change it to applicants who has local experience? and only when the epidemic situation is getting better, everything will back to normal. Considering the situation now, I'm guessing IT WILL TAKE 1-2 MONTHS. I maybe wrong, but that's my opinion.

Quite frankly, u want to be in the game, accept the rules. U lost 5 points every year? Try other ways to take it back, not asking me. how many people past 30's. I'm 25 years old and I believe thousands of potential applicants who are younger than me are considering moving to here too. So, max ur points if u r not competitive.

Canada doesnt care if u r over 30's, as long as u got enough points, just watch how many folks in this forums tried everything they could to max out the points. Maybe CANADA want younger ones, because THEY SET the RULES, and U have to follow it no matter what.
 
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asksharelearn

Star Member
Jan 25, 2020
52
55
So that's more than 80k PRs from India in 2019 out of around 90k in total for express entry, i don't think that level of immigration from only one country is sustainable politically.

People will start saying if it continues unabated for a consistent period that it will change Canada's demographics too drastically.

Immigration is still a hot button issue here, and i think many conservatives will not like having such a significant number of immigrants from one country.
The 80k is not out of the express entry pool. That is out of the 341K total immigrants in 2019. Please check the current ethnic distribution of the country and come to conclusions. The total population of Canada is currently close to 38million. And the ethnic group you are mentioning is only close to 4%. So even with zero immigrants from other countries and if this trend of 80K were to continue for the next 10 years which is highly unlikely it would not hurt the demographics to the level of political influence you are suggesting. Please stop worrying too much.
 

asksharelearn

Star Member
Jan 25, 2020
52
55
I think you're underestimating the rest of the pool a bit, there are still highly competitive candidates from other countries, i don't think if let's say this was imposed on one country, that cut-off scores would go down sub 450. It would definitely go down, but i don't think to that extend, and the vast majority of candidates would have at least CLB 9 at those scores which is good enough to immigrate to Canada.

Well, in the last 5 years EE has been the main system to immigrate to Canada, so not much has changed.
The point @indianstudent96 is trying to make is not to underestimate and say that there are no competitive candidates from other countries. There is nothing stopping any high scoring individual from entering into the pool.

Please see how the IRCC score is affected by the number of people in the pool with high scores. If the IRCC wants the top 3500 candidates in the pool and there are only 1000 people above 475 wont it look for the remaining 2500 required people from below 470 causing the score to come down to 460 or even 450 hypothetically?

**nothing against applicants with 450's or 460's.**

Well, in the last 5 years EE has been the main system to immigrate to Canada, so not much has changed.

I think anti-immigrant sentiment is about jostling for resources in society, with people here wanting opportunities and progression, and finding immigrants to be unnecessary competition in the job and housing markets. But i do think that having immigration dominated by one group could act as a lightening rod for wider anti-immigrant sentiment, such as we've seen in Europe and the US.

Again EE is not the only stream of immigration to Canada. Please check your facts. that's only 85k out of 341k.

And the sentiment you are mentioning is not targetted towards any particular ethnic group as you seem to say. It is towards the entire immirgration. So if that were the case maybe the immigration levels should be reduced and not cap a particular group of people immigrating
 
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Arash.g

Full Member
Apr 15, 2020
37
2
will appreciate if any one could help::)
i have ordered a hard copy of my WES Report under international express method and after a day the status says WES has sent copies of evaluation report to recipient . but there is no Tracking Number any where i search in my profile.
does anyone know how can i track my package?
wishing the bests for all the high point applicants outside Canada waiting hopefully for a FSW Draw:)
 

asksharelearn

Star Member
Jan 25, 2020
52
55
will appreciate if any one could help::)
i have ordered a hard copy of my WES Report under international express method and after a day the status says WES has sent copies of evaluation report to recipient . but there is no Tracking Number any where i search in my profile.
does anyone know how can i track my package?
wishing the bests for all the high point applicants outside Canada waiting hopefully for a FSW Draw:)
In your WES account, after you login, from your dashboard you can go into your "Account Menu" and there will be an option to "Track My Package". I think you should be able to track it from there.
 

Arash.g

Full Member
Apr 15, 2020
37
2
In your WES account, after you login, from your dashboard you can go into your "Account Menu" and there will be an option to "Track My Package". I think you should be able to track it from there.
I have Checked it but it is not clickable. nothing happens:rolleyes:
 

asksharelearn

Star Member
Jan 25, 2020
52
55
I have Checked it but it is not clickable. nothing happens:rolleyes:
In your "Account Timeline" tab in your dashboard do you see any "Completed" application? If you do it will have options like "order duplicate IRCC" or "Download PDF Report".

There you will see "Details" link beside your application reference number. That should show some details that can help you.