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question about "intent to reside" in c-24

mra123

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Apr 29, 2015
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^labeamer,

I would guess that this is something that would likely be a possibility as the result of this section of the new law. My original question was about WHO things like this would be applicable to. I think dpenabill indicated that such application of the law (however valid or nefarious) would only apply to PR's who submitted complete applications AFTER this section of the law comes in to force.

Even with the current political environment, it is hard for me to see them going back to look at files of the folks who took the oath recently, 5 years ago, ten years ago, 20 years ago etc., just form a logistics perspective. Perhaps more likely they will go for the "low hanging fruit" of applications submitted AFTER this section of the law comes in to force.
 

wd1

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Mar 11, 2015
123
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Intent to Reside has straightforward meaning. If at any time during application officer come to conclusion that you applying for citizenship for any other reason than intent to reside in Canada , your application will be turn down.
 

screech339

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wd1 said:
Intent to Reside has straightforward meaning. If at any time during application officer come to conclusion that you applying for citizenship for any other reason than intent to reside in Canada , your application will be turn down.
The only proof of residing in Canada is staying in Canada at least 6 months of the year. You are legally considered to be a resident of Canada once you stay in Canada 6 months. So those that break the 6 month rule basically violated the "intend to reside" clause since they are no longer residents of Canada but a resident of the other country.
 

wd1

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Mar 11, 2015
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screech339 said:
The only proof of residing in Canada is staying in Canada at least 6 months of the year. You are legally considered to be a resident of Canada once you stay in Canada 6 months. So those that break the 6 month rule basically violated the "intend to reside" clause since they are no longer residents of Canada but a resident of the other country.
That's truth. But lets say you are student in Canada, you apply one day short of 1095 days residency, your whole family lives aboard, you travel a lot and no properties or own mailing address ? Is it a model of citizenship that country is looking for ? Does facts like that indicating a honest candidate for citizen ? No. You will have to proof that your intentions are to move and live in Canada.
 

screech339

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wd1 said:
That's truth. But lets say you are student in Canada, you apply one day short of 1095 days residency, your whole family lives aboard, you travel a lot and no properties or own mailing address ? Is it a model of citizenship that country is looking for ? Does facts like that indicating a honest candidate for citizen ? No. You will have to proof that your intentions are to move and live in Canada.
Not sure how being a student is a problem for having an address. If you live in a dorm, there is an mailing address. If you rent an apartment, another mailing address. There is some form of mailing address at any place a student stayed at. So I don't see how it is a problem.
 

wd1

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Mar 11, 2015
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screech339 said:
Not sure how being a student is a problem for having an address. If you live in a dorm, there is an mailing address. If you rent an apartment, another mailing address. There is some form of mailing address at any place a student stayed at. So I don't see how it is a problem.
That's the thing, it's not a problem but if you don't have one, it could be an indicator that you < seating on the bags > being ready for bailout. I know that this is offensive to someones, but there is unaccounted number of people which needs Canadian Citizenship just for backup or other secret reasons, ready to leave the country without intention to reside.
By the way, I live close to university and I'm getting students mail at my address which never live here before nor ask me if that's OK with me.
 

screech339

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wd1 said:
That's the thing, it's not a problem but if you don't have one, it could be an indicator that you < seating on the bags > being ready for bailout. I know that this is offensive to someones, but there is unaccounted number of people which needs Canadian Citizenship just for backup or other secret reasons, ready to leave the country without intention to reside.
By the way, I live close to university and I'm getting students mail at my address which never live here before nor ask me if that's OK with me.
If you are getting student mail, you send it back to sender with note that student moved or does not live here. That way the sender will update information. That includes all government mail.

If the student ever complain to you about it, tell them tough luck, you were responsible to set up forwarding address. If they never lived there before, too bad, they are committing fraud.
 

wd1

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Mar 11, 2015
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screech339 said:
If you are getting student mail, you send it back to sender with note that student moved or does not live here. That way the sender will update information. That includes all government mail.

If the student ever complain to you about it, tell them tough luck, you were responsible to set up forwarding address. If they never lived there before, too bad, they are committing fraud.
Yes, it's fraud. I once called collecting agency looking for student loan payback and they told me that my address is the place where student use to live 4 years ago. Well, despite phone calls, ( I live with my family in this home for 11 years ) I'm still getting mail from the same collecting agency. Figure that out. My point is, that this is happening often and not just to me and that is only one example.
 

screech339

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wd1 said:
Yes, it's fraud. I once called collecting agency looking for student loan payback and they told me that my address is the place where student use to live 4 years ago. Well, despite phone calls, ( I live with my family in this home for 11 years ) I'm still getting mail from the same collecting agency. Figure that out. My point is, that this is happening often and not just to me and that is only one example.
Sounds like the student was skipping out on the loan. It is hard to convince collection agencies that they don't live there anymore. They are convinced that it is a ploy to avoid dealing with them. They can easily get the latest known address from CRA, income tax filings.
 

dpenabill

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labeamer said:
What if the 'intent to reside' requirement is a tool to revoke the citizenship of a naturalized individual for 'misrepresentation?' Suppose . . .

Question: "What if the 'intent to reside' requirement is a tool to revoke the citizenship of a naturalized individual for 'misrepresentation?'"

This is in the range of an arguable interpretation and application of the intent-requirement. It is a red herring. The law does not work that way. Just because there is what appears to be a logical argument supporting a particular interpretation or application does not make that interpretation or application feasible. Logical possibility does not equal a real possibility.

Again, inferences about a person's "intent" are not at all unusual in the law.

I could offer a full-blown analysis explaining the underlying evidentiary elements involved, but it would be lengthy, complicated, and more jurisprudence than almost anyone other than a lawyer can stomach let alone want to read. The issue does not warrant that much attention. It really is a total red herring.

This is not to deny that for those who do indeed engage in fraudulently misrepresenting the facts in the course of a citizenship application, including those facts relevant to assessing an applicant's intent to continue to reside in Canada upon becoming a citizen, there is indeed a palatable apprehension the government might someday discover the fraud and proceed to revoke citizenship. The best case scenario for those who commit fraud in the process of applying for citizenship is that they spend the rest of their life looking over their shoulder, harbouring at least some fear that someone close to them might turn on them and turn them in, and in doing so has the evidence necessary for the government to revoke their citizenship.

And make no mistake, the new citizen who leaves Canada within a few weeks, let alone days after becoming a citizen, and takes up a life somewhere abroad which obviously was in large part arranged before taking the oath, DUH! DUH! DUH! . . . such as living in a residence which was leased or purchased before taking the oath, taking a job which was applied for, let alone accepted, before taking the oath, going to a place the rest of his family was already settled in, . . . and so on . . . yes, such a new citizen will be at risk for having his citizenship revoked, and the best case scenario is looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life (maybe the former boss in Canada finds out about the job offer preceding the oath and turns to the CIC tip line in pursuit of vengeance, or as he might think it is, justice).

While there is always some risk the innocent may be swept up in efforts to enforce these kinds of requirements, this really is not one of those situations. If anything, as alluded to by neutral, many more cases of actual misrepresentation of intent in conjunction with misrepresentation of concrete facts (such as omitting disclosure of employment or business interests abroad) are likely to occur than will ever be subject to revocation proceedings. Once the oath is taken, the intent element itself is just history (but the door is not so closed for an applicant who has made misrepresentation of concrete facts, such as in regards to employment, business interests, property interests, and so on).

That is, a large percentage of those who do deliberately scheme to obtain a Canadian passport with a plan to then soon leave Canada, will continue to get away with it. Mostly these new requirements (including the 4/6 rule, the 4X183/year rule, tax compliance rule, and the intent-requirement) are designed to make it much more difficult to perpetrate such schemes for obtaining the Canadian passport, as this government describes it, as a passport of convenience or citizenship of convenience. These requirements will not eliminate taking-the-oath-on-the-way-to-the-airport but should dramatically reduce the numbers doing so (according to the Tories anyway . . . I am not so sure there are that many who have been doing this, even though more than a few with this agenda appear to pop up in forums like this) and should in particular dramatically reduce the number who apply-on-the-way-to-the-airport.

In any event, again, the idea that just leaving Canada some time later, after becoming a citizen, might potentially lead to the government revoking citizenship is a total red herring . . . but to be clear, those who want to parse this down to whether the departure is "too soon" after taking the oath, there is no confusion about what that is rooted in and it is not about the alleged prospect of the government going after the citizenship of ordinary naturalized citizens who, some time after taking the oath, decide to pursue an opportunity abroad. Which is to say, while the odds are in favour of getting away with it, sure there is some risk for the new citizen who leaves Canada so soon that it implies he intended to leave Canada before he took the oath. For obvious reasons.
 

paw339

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May 28, 2014
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New Zealand added an "intent to reside clause" to its citizenship application several years ago without any problems. As far as I'm aware the only immigrants (a very small number) who have had their citizenship removed or even questioned were immigrants who had actually made concrete plans to leave (booked flights, accepted job offers etc.) before the oath; clearly demonstrating that they were lying when they declared that they intended to reside in New Zealand after being granted citizenship. I know a number of "new" New Zealand citizens who have left New Zealand within 12 months after being granted citizenship because circumstances changed (Christchurch Earthquake) and that wasn't an issue.
 

CanadianCountry

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Read the New Zealand story. Dont know what these guys (Canadian/NewZealand Immigration) are smoking??

paw339 said:
New Zealand added an "intent to reside clause" to its citizenship application several years ago without any problems. As far as I'm aware the only immigrants (a very small number) who have had their citizenship removed or even questioned were immigrants who had actually made concrete plans to leave (booked flights, accepted job offers etc.) before the oath; clearly demonstrating that they were lying when they declared that they intended to reside in New Zealand after being granted citizenship. I know a number of "new" New Zealand citizens who have left New Zealand within 12 months after being granted citizenship because circumstances changed (Christchurch Earthquake) and that wasn't an issue.
 

ERJOPA

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Jan 14, 2015
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My question deals with how this "intent" law is worded. By signing the "intent", you agree to reside in Canada during the citizenship process - which is a no brainer. However, after you are granted citizenship, would the CIC eventually do "random checks" of these new Canadians years down the road to see if they are actually holding up their end of the "intent" agreement and act accordingly? Would this be the "red herring" that depenabill is talking about? or is it the "veiled threat" that the wording of this clause suggests?
 

CanadianCountry

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This sinister govt can do anything. Any new immigration minister can ask his department clerks to get him a list of naturalized Canadians living abroad, then revoke 5/10/100 citizenships on an annual basis, there is nothing to stop the minister from doing this based on days lived abroad.

ERJOPA said:
My question deals with how this "intent" law is worded. By signing the "intent", you agree to reside in Canada during the citizenship process - which is a no brainer. However, after you are granted citizenship, would the CIC eventually do "random checks" of these new Canadians years down the road to see if they are actually holding up their end of the "intent" agreement and act accordingly? Would this be the "red herring" that depenabill is talking about? or is it the "veiled threat" that the wording of this clause suggests?