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My study term starting in F2018 but PR renewal application still in process

Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
It is in your best interest to apply for US Visa and then go to Canada via the land border. Since you are already a PR, you are legally allowed to enter Canada i.e the border officers cannot deny you entry. This means you will most definitely make it in time for your University. There are a few things you might have to worry about to make your case even more so in your favour -- read have your H&C reasons approved -- however you will without a doubt be allowed to enter the country, to have that reiterated. If you want more details on this, just let me know. I can provide a full write up on the process. I have myself gone through this process. Further, I have also consulted a lawyer for my case, and albeit that by no means means I am a substitute for a lawyer however I can hopefully give a general insight into the process.
First of all, I appreciate your reply.

The reason why I applied PR renewal before PRTD, is to successfully get my PR renewed and when I will be asked to pick up my card, it will be easy for me to get PRTD right away.

I would like to hear your side of story and how did it go for you.
 

BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
221
Toronto, ON
First of all, I appreciate your reply.

The reason why I applied PR renewal before PRTD, is to successfully get my PR renewed and when I will be asked to pick up my card, it will be easy for me to get PRTD right away.

I would like to hear your side of story and how did it go for you.
This is a quite unconventional way to go about. I really do hope it works out for you. I do not mean to scare, however, if I do remember correctly applying for a PR card like this did imply immediate rejection of the application. Nonetheless, what I am sure of is that it is definitely not in your best interests to apply for a PRTD. Not only are you not guaranteed entry into the country -- you have to most definitely factor in the chance that the officer has full discretion to dismiss your application if they like -- but also the process may take quite some time which is not ideal in your situation. Further, there is a lack of human-to-human interaction and you are just another file to them. Are there any reasons you are avoiding a trek to the US and crossing via the border as I get an impression that you seem quite reluctant to do so.

The gist of my story is that I flew to NYC. Took a subsequent flight to Buffalo. Drove across to the border where I had my case explained. Pulled to secondary. Appealed my H&C reasons to the officer and then waited for an hour. Called up to officer, allowed to keep PR based on H&C grounds with a stamp on my passport declaring that I am allowed into the country as a PR. Enter Canada.

However, the reason why I choose to fly to the US rather than follow a process similar to yours is definitely not for the tourism -- quite frankly found the US boring. It was because I was guaranteed to enter Canada even if they threw my reasons into the bin. I have spent nearly a year researching on this topic and I have found this to be a put option to your long position. Also this method doesn't even add any significant costs so hopefully that is not an issue.

Anyways, let me know what you think.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
I seem to remember that in at least one case on here, what has happened is that the PR card application in Canada has been refused, without prejudice, and the applicant told to apply for a Permanent Resident Travel Document instead. This has passed responsibility for the residency assessment to the visa office abroad.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
First of all, I appreciate your reply.

The reason why I applied PR renewal before PRTD, is to successfully get my PR renewed and when I will be asked to pick up my card, it will be easy for me to get PRTD right away.

I would like to hear your side of story and how did it go for you.
It doesn't work like this.. The residency assessment for each process is independent. You could get a PR card prepared in Canada successfully but fail to obtain a PRTD due to not meeting the local H&C assessment, regardless of the previous success. You would still lose your PR status.

To be honest, you now need to pass BOTH assessments, as either can find you inadmissible and start revocation proceedings.
 
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BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
221
Toronto, ON
It doesn't work like this.. The residency assessment for each process is independent. You could get a PR card prepared in Canada successfully but fail to obtain a PRTD due to not meeting the local H&C assessment, regardless of the previous success. You would still lose your PR status.

To be honest, you now need to pass BOTH assessments, as either can find you inadmissible and start revocation proceedings.
I am glad someone could confirm this. OP you best start looking at alternatives now because you're playing heavily on chance.
 

Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
@BOYX : You must be lucky to enter through border without being reported. I could also try this method but i kept this as a secondary option. It will be easy for me to get US study visa as I got 3 offer letters from US universities but the tuition fee is insane. However, I am not sure if Canadian VO will allow me to enter Canada with US study visa. In addition, applying for US tourist visa at this age has greater probability of denial.
Are you from US visa exempt country?
My father applied for US visa two years ago and was asked to show PR card in interview, I suppose immigrant Visa on dad’s passport triggered them to ask for PR card. They denied the visa. However, the lady asked my father if he will try to cross in Canada using US visa on which he replied NO. Anyways, What i mean here is that they do suspect you if you have expired PR card but again it all depends upon your luck and VO you get.


@zardoz : If I am asked to pick up PR card , what holds VO in my country to refuse PRTD as I have already cleared the RO with PR renewal department in Canada. I assume letter stating PR card pickup will also ask me to apply for PRTD which will further assist my case in convincing VO in my country to issue me PRTD without any objection.

There was this guy who told me he applied for PR card renewal and PRTD side by side. Unfortunately, his PRTD got refused which automatically puts his PR renewal application(which was in process) in Canada at hold.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
@BOYX : You must be lucky to enter through border without being reported. I could also try this method but i kept this as a secondary option. It will be easy for me to get US study visa as I got 3 offer letters from US universities but the tuition fee is insane. However, I am not sure if Canadian VO will allow me to enter Canada with US study visa. In addition, applying for US tourist visa at this age has greater probability of denial.
Are you from US visa exempt country?
My father applied for US visa two years ago and was asked to show PR card in interview, I suppose immigrant Visa on dad’s passport triggered them to ask for PR card. They denied the visa. However, the lady asked my father if he will try to cross in Canada using US visa on which he replied NO. Anyways, What i mean here is that they do suspect you if you have expired PR card but again it all depends upon your luck and VO you get.


@zardoz : If I am asked to pick up PR card , what holds VO in my country to refuse PRTD as I have already cleared the RO with PR renewal department in Canada. I assume letter stating PR card pickup will also ask me to apply for PRTD which will further assist my case in convincing VO in my country to issue me PRTD without any objection.

There was this guy who told me he applied for PR card renewal and PRTD side by side. Unfortunately, his PRTD got refused which automatically puts his PR renewal application(which was in process) in Canada at hold.
The visa office abroad is not bound by the previous decision. This is established case law. The 5 years period under consideration is also different. You assume incorrectly.
 

Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
The visa office abroad is not bound by the previous decision. This is established case law. The 5 years period under consideration is also different. You assume incorrectly.
As you stated they are not bound by previous decision. I wonder what makes VO in Canada to put my friend’s pr renewal application on hold after his PRTD got denied. There must be some connection or system via which they share information.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
As you stated they are not bound by previous decision. I wonder what makes VO in Canada to put my friend’s pr renewal application on hold after his PRTD got denied. There must be some connection or system with which they share information.
As soon as the VO decided PRTD refusal for failing to comply with the RO, the applicant is no longer a PR, subject to appeal. There is no longer an entitlement to a renewed PR card, subject to the appeal outcome. It's called GCMS.
 

Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
As soon as the VO decided PRTD refusal for failing to comply with the RO, the applicant is no longer a PR, subject to appeal. There is no longer an entitlement to a renewed PR card, subject to the appeal outcome. It's called GCMS.
Thanks for sharing this information. Yes, Appeal is obvious when they deny PRTD.
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,304
2,166
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
I really wish you had found this forum before applying. You may get lucky and get a clean pass but you have certainly gone about this the wrong way round.

Good luck...
 
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Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
I really wish you had found this forum before applying. You may get lucky and get a clean pass but you have certainly gone about this the wrong way round.

Good luck...
Anyways, I will keep you guys updated. I have already sent my offer letters from universities to VO stating my urgency to arrive in Canada by start of September, 2018. I hope they will consider the effects of refusal on my career.
 

BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
221
Toronto, ON
@BOYX : You must be lucky to enter through border without being reported. I could also try this method but i kept this as a secondary option. It will be easy for me to get US study visa as I got 3 offer letters from US universities but the tuition fee is insane. However, I am not sure if Canadian VO will allow me to enter Canada with US study visa. In addition, applying for US tourist visa at this age has greater probability of denial.
Are you from US visa exempt country?
My father applied for US visa two years ago and was asked to show PR card in interview, I suppose immigrant Visa on dad’s passport triggered them to ask for PR card. They denied the visa. However, the lady asked my father if he will try to cross in Canada using US visa on which he replied NO. Anyways, What i mean here is that they do suspect you if you have expired PR card but again it all depends upon your luck and VO you get.


@zardoz : If I am asked to pick up PR card , what holds VO in my country to refuse PRTD as I have already cleared the RO with PR renewal department in Canada. I assume letter stating PR card pickup will also ask me to apply for PRTD which will further assist my case in convincing VO in my country to issue me PRTD without any objection.

There was this guy who told me he applied for PR card renewal and PRTD side by side. Unfortunately, his PRTD got refused which automatically puts his PR renewal application(which was in process) in Canada at hold.
No no no!! You have got it all incredibly wrong! I need you to realize that you have gone completely off course. Firstly, I am incredibly glad you sought advice from this forum as that is a step in the right direction. I was not lucky to get in without being reported. I researched well enough for the officer to, not only make a really quick decision, but also tell me that my whole family should come to Canada based on the reasons I presented.

Also, I have an Indian passport. I had to apply for a US Visa. I was 17 when I went through this process.

You should not make this your second option. You should go and have an appointment booked with the US Embassy/Consulate and get a Tourist Visa. Do not apply for/consider a study visa because that would not make sense whatsoever. Also why would they reject your visa application? Just have enough funds, book a two-way flight and have a hotel reserved. You are from India not any of Trump's 'scapegoat states'. Apply as a tourist and all should be fine. As far the US government knows, you are just going to see the statue of liberty.

I decided to go back and check the efficacy of your method and just as other posters said, you're playing Canadian Roulette. You're putting everything on chance which is completely nonsensical! Your method needs to change as a matter of urgency. If you are still not convinced, then I cannot implore you further. Ask any more questions if you like. I hope you can make it into Canada as this country needs bright minds and all your acceptances signal just that.

Good luck.

EDIT: Also your H&C is also incredibly based on chance. You waited too long to apply under those reasons. This is another factor that is working against your favour...
 
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Wait4life

Star Member
May 26, 2018
51
4
@BOYX: Thanks for sharing worth piece of information. I should start focusing on entering through US. I’ll get an appointment for US tourist visa asap and see how my luck goes on. I should drop the idea for applying PRTD from India.

The best I could do is, take each and every document stating my H & C reason and show everything to VO officer on border entry including my pr renewal fee receipt, Right?. Hope this will convince him about my future plans to settle down in Canada.
 
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BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
221
Toronto, ON
@BOYX: Thanks for sharing worth piece of information. I should start focusing on entering through US. I’ll get a appointment for US tourist visa asap and see how my luck goes on. I should drop the idea for applying PRTD from India.

The best I could do is, take each and every document stating my H & C reason and show everything to VO officer on border entry including my pr renewal fee receipt, Right?. Hope this will convince him about my future plans to settle down in Canada.
Yes that will be perfect. Have an appointment booked and till then try to read up a lot of previous cases similar to yours on this forum -- there are plenty. Ideally, you should get a lawyer to represent you to better your chances. It is a hefty price to pay but you must realize that this will allow you to save a lot off tuition and all the other amazing benefits that come with having your PR and eventually your citizenship. If not, it is best to explain your situation in a letter. Gather up all your evidence that backs your claims. Have this letter notarized. Focus on every aspect of your life since leaving. Why you choose to stay in India after graduating? Why did your parents leave? What makes you come back to Canada now? Stop focusing on the career aspect. It does not make for a good argument in H&C cases -- there was a link around here where you could view all the case appeals. You should be set from there.

Have your old PR card ready if possible.