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Help!! Residency Obligation question

Cassiano

Hero Member
Dec 4, 2017
271
67
Hi all,
I landed in Mar 2018 with my wife as a PR and went back due to some personal reasons. I landed back again in June 2021 and I am living here since then. My wife landed in Sep21 as we had a baby while in India and she travelled after we received Visitor visa for our baby.
Now I have below question
1: As I am completing 5 years in Mar 2023, so by when we can apply for the renewal of the PR Card. Do we need to apply only after completing 730 days or we can apply earlier as well(If yes then how many months before).?
2. Secondly, As I spent 1044 days outside on Country and I am good with +51 days(1095=3yrs), So do I need to wait till I cover off balance of 730 days(which will be completing in Feb2023) to renew my PR Card or I can do it even before that?
3. For my Wife, she is short by 27 days till Mar 2023, so can we file her PR Card renewal or not?
4. Can we provide letter of Explanation that we were coming in 2020 but due to COVID we got stuck and we had to even deliver our baby backhome.
5. Form IMM5444, Income tax info - Is there any impact on the tax if we provide details to the CRA? Even we were not here but we were filing all the taxes for all the years.

Also can we apply online as well or it has to be paper based application only?
Please help!!!
the best help for you all is stay in Canada, become Canadian and then apply for an OCI, 2024-2025, no more personal reasons
 
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,517
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So basically I am eligible to renew my card when there will be 9 months left but I shouldn't apply right away. so when should I apply for the renewal? what's the best practice to apply. I mean with 3-4 months of expiry or so?
That is a decision for you to make, based on YOUR best understanding of your facts, your situation, as well as your best understanding of what the rules are and how they work. Moreover, things can change between now and the earliest date you can even apply, including what is the earliest date you can apply.

CAUTION: At the very least you are cutting-it-close, so the actual numbers can matter, really matter. Much of my previous response was based on your calculation that you have been outside Canada 1044 days since the date of landing, which as you noted gives you approximately 51 days buffer over the minimum 730 days required by the PR Residency Obligation.

BUT, as I reiterate and emphasize, again and again, what you do, and when, are decisions for YOU to make based on YOUR best understanding of your situation, and that includes the facts, including dates and numbers. There appears to be some inconsistencies, or at least incongruities, in the dates and numbers you report. YOU need to get those right . . . not necessarily here, since the best we can do here is generally describe how things work . . . but for yourself, for making the decisions YOU need to make. While it helps to be working with accurate dates and numbers, here in these discussions, this is merely illustrative, to describe how the rules work given certain assumed facts. We cannot reliably analyze your case for you, here. That's for you to do . . . again, for YOU to figure out, unless you pay for an in-depth consultation with a competent immigration lawyer who can closely review all the relevant details and give you a detailed opinion.

We can identify some scenarios in which it would be very risky to make a PR card application, or conversely some scenarios in which it is near for-sure safe to apply. In regards to the latter, for example, if both of you wait to apply more than two years since you last arrived in Canada, respectively (that is, for you June 2023, and for your spouse September 2023), without leaving since your arrival here, that almost for-sure avoids any risk of a negative outcome leading to a loss of PR status (could still involve non-routine processing and delays). That is the safest approach.

Moreover, it appears that is the only approach for your spouse to apply in compliance with the RO, since your spouse appears to have been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since landing. That means your spouse is currently in breach of the RO, and will not be in compliance until your spouse has remained in Canada for two years following last arrival.

And that really is the safest approach for you as well. Assuming you have been outside Canada no more than 1044 days since landing, you have other options, some wiggle-room, but you are nonetheless cutting-it-close, and this involves relying on days in Canada back in 2018, which you begin losing credit for starting March 21, 2023 (days in Canada more than five years ago do NOT count). What is for-sure is that waiting two years since your arrival definitively establishes compliance with the RO.

There are good reasons why several veteran participants in this forum stick to that formula. It works. It is simple, easy to understand, and easy to apply. No need to get bogged down in weedy what-if tangents or engage in complex analysis, no need to take calculated risks. Even just the counting side of the equation is easier. Wait two years since last arrival before applying for a new PR card. Still might be some non-routine processing delays in actually getting the new PR card, but there is no risk of a decision terminating PR status.

So, rather than attempt to further sort out some of the alternative scenarios, and related risks, the safest approach is to wait until June 2023, when you have been here two continuous years, before applying, allowing that if the 1044 days absence is correct, an application sooner should be safe; beyond that let me say, to be clear, perhaps YOU are right when you say you "shouldn't apply right away" (which under current rules can be no sooner than nine months before your current PR card expires), BUT, again to be clear, nowhere in my post did I say you shouldn't apply right away. I made a concerted effort to emphasize that a decision like this is for the individual PR to make based on their own judgment, situation, and understanding of how to best navigate the system. The approach stated by @scylla works. Moreover, just because you can apply does not mean it is necessarily a good idea to apply. But there are situations in which a particular PR might judiciously, prudently, elect to rush applying for a new PR card. You need to sort out what is best for you, for yourself.

At the risk of belaboring the point, the variables and potential vagaries are many, with more than a few contingent elements, far too many factors and considerations specific to the individual for anyone in a forum like this to reliably say when a particular PR, like you, should proceed to make the PR card application.

I will also add that there are, potentially, additional complexities in some circumstances.

Not worth wrestling with here and now. However, I will note for example that @GuyanaGirl is off some in saying:
"If you dare apply before you have 730 days you will be rejected and could end up in issues."​

There is indeed a risk of "issues," and there is that risk even if the PR is RO compliant (with factors like cutting-it-close influencing how much risk there is), but PR card applications are rarely, almost never "rejected" for Residency Obligation issues. Rather than rejected, when a PR applies for a PR card but is in breach of the RO, IRCC can conduct a formal RO examination resulting in the preparation of a 44(1) inadmissibility report and issuance of a Removal Order, a decision terminating PR status subject to appeal. Bringing this to your spouse's situation in particular:

Secondly, In case of my wife she has lived 1122/1095 days outside of canada and our 5 yrs timeframe is completing on 21 Mar23 but looks like her 730 days will be completing somewhere around 20th april 23 or so.? So she needs to wait till 20th april 23 and could possibly renew after then only?
There is no such thing as "completing" the RO. I understand what you probably mean, which is reaching the 730 day threshold, for days actually present, sufficient to satisfy the RO. Which works during and for the first five years, but ONLY the first five years, only until the fifth year anniversary of landing. After that, which appears to be March 21, 2023 for you and your spouse, each day is subject to a different calculation. A PR is either in compliance with the RO or in breach, as of a given day, calculated differently each day. This may come across a bit picky but there is a reason why it is important to understand this.

For your wife, it appears she has been outside Canada more than 1095 days since March 21, 2018, the day of landing, and if so then she is currently in breach of the RO and there is NO way to reach that 730 day threshold of days in Canada before the fifth year anniversary of landing. So from now on she will not be in compliance unless and until she has been IN Canada at least 730 days since her arrival here last September. Thus, this probably means she will NOT be in compliance until September 2023. And after that she will be in compliance only if she continues to have been IN Canada for 730 days within the preceding five years as of any day. Thus the soonest she should apply for a new PR card is likely to be in or after September 2023 (there's a wrinkle, a work-around, but it is not worth getting tangled up with that now).

You suggest she might be in compliance, having 730 days credit toward the RO, around April 20, 2023. On that date the RO calculation will be based on the number of days IN Canada between April 20, 2018 and April 20, 2023. That calculation will NOT count days in Canada before April 20, 2018, as those days will be more than five years past, no longer in the five years that count.

Similarly as of May 19, 2023: if she makes a PR card application on May 19, 2023, her compliance with the RO will be based on days in Canada between May 19, 2018 and May 19, 2023. Days in Canada prior to May 19, 2018 will NOT count.

And so on.

Apparently she was in breach when she arrived here last September. Which indicates she was, like many others have reported in this forum, the beneficiary of some border control leniency. That has long been common for PRs still within their first five years, and apparently far more common during the Covid pandemic. A PR card application may also benefit from similar leniency. But there is no good reason to test it, to risk it. As I mentioned before, even if a new PR card is issued, that does not restart the clock.
 
Last edited:

ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
403
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We can identify some scenarios in which it would be very risky to make a PR card application, or conversely some scenarios in which it is near for-sure safe to apply. In regards to the latter, for example, if both of you wait to apply more than two years since you last arrived in Canada, respectively (that is, for you June 2023, and for your spouse September 2023), without leaving since your arrival here, that almost for-sure avoids any risk of a negative outcome leading to a loss of PR status (could still involve non-routine processing and delays). That is the safest approach.

Moreover, it appears that is the only approach for your spouse to apply in compliance with the RO, since your spouse appears to have been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since landing. That means your spouse is currently in breach of the RO, and will not be in compliance until your spouse has remained in Canada for two years following last arrival.

And that really is the safest approach for you as well. Assuming you have been outside Canada no more than 1044 days since landing, you have other options, some wiggle-room, but you are nonetheless cutting-it-close, and this involves relying on days in Canada back in 2018, which you begin losing credit for starting March 21, 2023 (days in Canada more than five years ago do NOT count). What is for-sure is that waiting two years since your arrival definitively establishes compliance with the RO.

There are good reasons why several veteran participants in this forum stick to that formula. It works. It is simple, easy to understand, and easy to apply. No need to get bogged down in weedy what-if tangents or engage in complex analysis, no need to take calculated risks. Even just the counting side of the equation is easier. Wait two years since last arrival before applying for a new PR card. Still might be some non-routine processing delays in actually getting the new PR card, but there is no risk of a decision terminating PR status.

So, rather than attempt to further sort out some of the alternative scenarios, and related risks, the safest approach is to wait until June 2023, when you have been here two continuous years, before applying, allowing that if the 1044 days absence is correct, an application sooner should be safe; beyond that let me say, to be clear, perhaps YOU are right when you say you "shouldn't apply right away" (which under current rules can be no sooner than nine months before your current PR card expires), BUT, again to be clear, nowhere in my post did I say you shouldn't apply right away. I made a concerted effort to emphasize that a decision like this is for the individual PR to make based on their own judgment, situation, and understanding of how to best navigate the system. The approach stated by @scylla works. Moreover, just because you can apply does not mean it is necessarily a good idea to apply. But there are situations in which a particular PR might judiciously, prudently, elect to rush applying for a new PR card. You need to sort out what is best for you, for yourself.

At the risk of belaboring the point, the variables and potential vagaries are many, with more than a few contingent elements, far too many factors and considerations specific to the individual for anyone in a forum like this to reliably say when a particular PR, like you, should proceed to make the PR card application.

I will also add that there are, potentially, additional complexities in some circumstances.

Not worth wrestling with here and now. However, I will note for example that @GuyanaGirl is off some in saying:
"If you dare apply before you have 730 days you will be rejected and could end up in issues."​

There is indeed a risk of "issues," and there is that risk even if the PR is RO compliant (with factors like cutting-it-close influencing how much risk there is), but PR card applications are rarely, almost never "rejected" for Residency Obligation issues. Rather than rejected, when a PR applies for a PR card but is in breach of the RO, IRCC can conduct a formal RO examination resulting in the preparation of a 44(1) inadmissibility report and issuance of a Removal Order, a decision terminating PR status subject to appeal. Bringing this to your spouse's situation in particular:



There is no such thing as "completing" the RO. I understand what you probably mean, which is reaching the 730 day threshold, for days actually present, sufficient to satisfy the RO. Which works during and for the first five years, but ONLY the first five years, only until the fifth year anniversary of landing. After that, which appears to be March 21, 2023 for you and your spouse, each day is subject to a different calculation. A PR is either in compliance with the RO or in breach, as of a given day, calculated differently each day. This may come across a bit picky but there is a reason why it is important to understand this.

For your wife, it appears she has been outside Canada more than 1095 days since March 21, 2018, the day of landing, and if so then she is currently in breach of the RO and there is NO way to reach that 730 day threshold of days in Canada before the fifth year anniversary of landing. So from now on she will not be in compliance unless and until she has been IN Canada at least 730 days since her arrival here last September. Thus, this probably means she will NOT be in compliance until September 2023. And after that she will be in compliance only if she continues to have been IN Canada for 730 days within the preceding five years as of any day. Thus the soonest she should apply for a new PR card is likely to be in or after September 2023 (there's a wrinkle, a work-around, but it is not worth getting tangled up with that now).

You suggest she might be in compliance, having 730 days credit toward the RO, around April 20, 2023. On that date the RO calculation will be based on the number of days IN Canada between April 20, 2018 and April 20, 2023. That calculation will NOT count days in Canada before April 20, 2018, as those days will be more than five years past, no longer in the five years that count.

Similarly as of May 19, 2023: if she makes a PR card application on May 19, 2023, her compliance with the RO will be based on days in Canada between May 19, 2018 and May 19, 2023. Days in Canada prior to May 19, 2018 will NOT count.

And so on.

Apparently she was in breach when she arrived here last September. Which indicates she was, like many others have reported in this forum, the beneficiary of some border control leniency. That has long been common for PRs still within their first five years, and apparently far more common during the Covid pandemic. A PR card application may also benefit from similar leniency. But there is no good reason to test it, to risk it. As I mentioned before, even if a new PR card is issued, that does not restart the clock.
Thanks for your reply. I have below questions:
1. As of now she lived in Canada as below:
2018(since mar21) 136 days
2021 (Since Sep5) 118 ays
2022 (assume she lives full year) 365
so total would be 136++118++365=619 days
Now she needs to complete balance of 730-619=111 days in 2023.
By 21 Mar 23 she will be completing 80 days so now 111-80= 31 short
so you mean to cover of this 31 days her bracket is going to be shift and for this reason she will be ending up renewing her card in Sep23?

2. If for any reason she has to go out of the country for about 2 weeks in Aug22 then is she going to face any issues while returning? Also while renewing for the PR card do we need to provide any LOE?
3. If her PR card expires in Mar23 and she needs to wait till Sep23 to renew it, by this time any rules changes with the expired PR in terms of living in canada? any negative impact on anything.
4. Also by any chance in case of any family emergency, if she needs to travel outside of canada within those 5-6 months with expired PR card then what will happen?
5. As its a paper based application only, do we need to send it to Nova scotia or any other visa office?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
5,517
2,480
Thanks for your reply. I have below questions:
1. As of now she lived in Canada as below:
2018(since mar21) 136 days
2021 (Since Sep5) 118 ays
2022 (assume she lives full year) 365
so total would be 136++118++365=619 days
Now she needs to complete balance of 730-619=111 days in 2023.
By 21 Mar 23 she will be completing 80 days so now 111-80= 31 short
so you mean to cover of this 31 days her bracket is going to be shift and for this reason she will be ending up renewing her card in Sep23?

2. If for any reason she has to go out of the country for about 2 weeks in Aug22 then is she going to face any issues while returning? Also while renewing for the PR card do we need to provide any LOE?
3. If her PR card expires in Mar23 and she needs to wait till Sep23 to renew it, by this time any rules changes with the expired PR in terms of living in canada? any negative impact on anything.
4. Also by any chance in case of any family emergency, if she needs to travel outside of canada within those 5-6 months with expired PR card then what will happen?
5. As its a paper based application only, do we need to send it to Nova scotia or any other visa office?
Reminder: for some of these questions, like where to send the application, it is all in the instructions. When in doubt, follow the instructions, and otherwise, yep, follow the instructions.

Start here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-card.html and follow links.

Most of the rest is a matter of applying the rules to the facts, as you know them, and making your own best judgment. Sorry to keep harping on this, but you have to drive your car yourself, taking into consideration the traffic and road conditions and judging things like when is it safe to proceed into a busy intersection or make a left turn. We can repeat the rules, restate the rules in this or that way, and give examples, but when it comes to applying them to your case, navigating the process yourself, you are in the driver's seat.

I have a backseat drivers' license but it is no good in this jurisdiction. Even if that license was good here (it for sure is not), I don't have a clear view of the road you are on, so I'd still have to defer to your driving, your judgment, based on the traffic and road conditions you are in, as you can see them from the driver's seat, when the time comes to make those decisions.

Otherwise, your wife is clearly in breach of the RO. I will elaborate again about this, but it is what it is. The discussions above cover what you and her need to know about the rules and how they work. If she stays put in Canada until September 6, 2023, that will cure the breach of the RO. That is the safe thing to do. There are other options, but there are risks connected to them. Again, this is addressed in previous discussions sufficient for you and her to mostly understand what is at stake and what the risks are, and it is up to YOU and HER to make decisions for yourselves about what to do.

To be clear, however, again, the safe approach is to STAY for two continuous years, which cures any previous breach of the RO and establishes a cushion for future absences (for up to three years . . . noting there is never any cushion for more than three years).

I said I would elaborate some; this should be apparent, but just to be sure it is clear:

If your wife left Canada before September 5, 2018 and did not return to Canada until September 5, 2021, she was clearly outside Canada for more than three years. Figuring out what that means in regards to what the rules are and how they work is not complicated; it does not even require rudimentary math, as it is simple arithmetic, counting days, so not even complex arithmetic.

If your wife was outside Canada for more than three years (more than 1096 days counting a leap year), that means there is no way for her to be in Canada at least 730 days within the first five years after landing. And it means there is no way for her to be in Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years until she has stayed in Canada at least 730 days since returning here, and even then only if she does not leave Canada in the meantime. That is, if after an absence for three years (or more) she arrived in Canada September 5, 2021, to cure the breach, to have been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years, she needs to STAY until September 5, 2023.

Since she is in breach of the Residency Obligation, there are only two ways to cure that:
-- stay long enough to get into compliance, or​
-- trigger an adjudication of her status and get a favourable H&C decision allowing her to keep status despite the breach​

The latter is GENERALLY not a risk worth taking if it is possible to avoid an adjudication of status by staying. Nonetheless, each individual's situation depends on their specific facts, circumstances, and priorities. As you should readily see in the discussions here, RO enforcement is not uniform. Examples of leeway and leniency and allowances abound. In contrast, do some research of published IAD decisions (see https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/ ) for PR RO cases and you will see there is no shortage of decisions affirming IRCC and CBSA officers' decisions terminating PR status for a failure to comply with the RO.

There are many variables involved, and while we can readily identify some of the main factors and patterns, it is very, very difficult to map particular factors to definite outcomes.

In contrast, we know that once a PR is IN Canada and is not subject to a Removal Order (was not "Reported" upon entry at the PoE), we know that staying long enough to get into compliance BEFORE engaging in any transactions with IRCC or CBSA will CURE the breach of the RO. That works. That is a for-sure way to keep PR status.

The Particular Questions:

I do not mean to dodge the particular questions. It really is better for you to do your best to understand the rules and figure out the answers for yourselves. Moreover, some of these questions are big subjects, like what happens if she leaves Canada and her PR card is expired, subject to many variables. I will offer just a glimpse but suggest you peruse other topics here for relevant discussions.

1. . . . . so you mean to cover of this 31 days her bracket is going to be shift and for this reason she will be ending up renewing her card in Sep23?

Mostly covered. She is in breach. No way to cure the breach without staying here until at least September 2023. Best to not make an application for a new PR card until then, and only then if she has stayed and is in RO compliance. But there are alternatives, options with risks.

2.(1) If for any reason she has to go out of the country for about 2 weeks in Aug22 then is she going to face any issues while returning?

She is in breach of the RO. There is always a risk a PR applying for entry into Canada at a Port-of-Entry (application made by simply arriving at the PoE) will be questioned about RO compliance, and if in breach this could result in the preparation of a 44(1) Report and issuance of a Removal Order, a decision terminating PR status subject to appeal. H&C case can be made at that time. PR is still allowed to enter Canada subject to the Removal Order and the right of appeal. As oft noted, however, actual enforcement is NOT uniform, so how it actually goes can and often will vary considerably. Note, for example, she was clearly in breach of the RO when she arrived last September, and could have been "Reported" that time.

Safe approach: STAY. Otherwise, her judgment call.

2. (2) Also while renewing for the PR card do we need to provide any LOE?

If the PR card application is properly made ONLY after she is in compliance with the RO, no need to explain. If the application is made before she is in RO compliance, she can present H&C factors for consideration. That process is a big subject of its own.

3. If her PR card expires in Mar23 and she needs to wait till Sep23 to renew it, by this time any rules changes with the expired PR in terms of living in canada? any negative impact on anything.

Of course rules can change. There is no hint there will be any changes that would affect living in Canada after PR card expires. That would probably require a major change to the statutes which would be a big deal and take a lot of time. For now and for the foreseeable future there is no need to have a valid PR card while living in Canada. There can be some inconvenience if the PR moves to another province in the meantime and needs to make an application for health care. BC appears to be strict about seeing a valid PR card. Ontario allows for the presentation of an expired PR card, for at least two years I think, maybe three.

4. Also by any chance in case of any family emergency, if she needs to travel outside of canada within those 5-6 months with expired PR card then what will happen?

Not sure what 5-6 months you are referring to. If she leaves before she is in compliance with the RO, as previously discussed she is at risk for being Reported at PoE when she returns, even if she still has a valid PR card. If she does not have a valid PR card she can only return to Canada if she obtains a PR Travel Document, or is able to travel via the U.S. and can reach the U.S./Canada border. PR TD application when not in RO compliance is VERY risky. PoE examination at U.S./Canada border is also risky.


As for details about the application itself, again see the instructions.
 
 

ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
403
10
New Delhi
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
New Delhi Visa Office
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
Med's Request
12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
Awaited
LANDED..........
Awaited
Since she is in breach of the Residency Obligation, there are only two ways to cure that:
-- stay long enough to get into compliance, or​
-- trigger an adjudication of her status and get a favourable H&C decision allowing her to keep status despite the breach​

The latter is GENERALLY not a risk worth taking if it is possible to avoid an adjudication of status by staying. Nonetheless, each individual's situation depends on their specific facts, circumstances, and priorities. As you should readily see in the discussions here, RO enforcement is not uniform. Examples of leeway and leniency and allowances abound. In contrast, do some research of published IAD decisions (see https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/ ) for PR RO cases and you will see there is no shortage of decisions affirming IRCC and CBSA officers' decisions terminating PR status for a failure to comply with the RO.

There are many variables involved, and while we can readily identify some of the main factors and patterns, it is very, very difficult to map particular factors to definite outcomes.

In contrast, we know that once a PR is IN Canada and is not subject to a Removal Order (was not "Reported" upon entry at the PoE), we know that staying long enough to get into compliance BEFORE engaging in any transactions with IRCC or CBSA will CURE the breach of the RO. That works. That is a for-sure way to keep PR status.
Hi,

I got it that safest is to be in Canada till Sep 23, but is it right to be out of status for approx. 6 months(from 21 Mar23 to 5 Sep23) and then renew the PR Card?
Secondly, as its approx. 28 days short from Mar18-Mar23(5 Yrs) and also she would have come back with my in June'21 but we applied Visitor visa for our new born baby in Feb'21 and got in around last week of July'21 due to which she had to lived back home with baby.
So if we want to raise H&C then can we do it? is it a good idea to trigger 2-3 months before current PR Card expires?
This is genuine reason and I have required proofs. How H&C can be raised and what's the timeline to get the decision? Is it lengthy/ costly procedure?
Also if this got denied then what's the outcome? Does she need t leave the country or we need to wait till Sep 23 to apply for the new PR renewal application.
Again thanks for all your help till now!!
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
10,996
5,580
Hi,

I got it that safest is to be in Canada till Sep 23, but is it right to be out of status for approx. 6 months(from 21 Mar23 to 5 Sep23) and then renew the PR Card?
Very important distinction: if she is IN Canada and the only thing wrong is out of compliance with the residency obligation, she is not "out of status." She is in Canada legally as a PR and has all the rights of other PRs, as long as she does not trigger a review of her residency obligation compliance - by leaving the country and re-entering, attempting to sponsor someone, or applying for a PR renewal, etc.

That is: while in Canada, being 'out of compliance' is not that big a deal. For most purposes, it does not matter. THe PR status does not expire because the card did.

Wait until back in compliance and then apply to renew PR card.

I didn't understand the rest of your questions or the logic and I assume it's because they don't make sense (once this information above is clarified). Apologies if I've misunderstood something though.
 
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ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
403
10
New Delhi
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
New Delhi Visa Office
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
Med's Request
12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
Awaited
LANDED..........
Awaited
Very important distinction: if she is IN Canada and the only thing wrong is out of compliance with the residency obligation, she is not "out of status." She is in Canada legally as a PR and has all the rights of other PRs, as long as she does not trigger a review of her residency obligation compliance - by leaving the country and re-entering, attempting to sponsor someone, or applying for a PR renewal, etc.

That is: while in Canada, being 'out of compliance' is not that big a deal. For most purposes, it does not matter. THe PR status does not expire because the card did.

Wait until back in compliance and then apply to renew PR card.

I didn't understand the rest of your questions or the logic and I assume it's because they don't make sense (once this information above is clarified). Apologies if I've misunderstood something though.
Thanks buddy for the clarification. The thing is that If we raise PR renewal request before current one expires then is it possible to get it renew on the H&C grounds? I don't know the process. As I said my wife is short by 31 days approx. and that's due to the we got TRV for our new born in months which delayed her arrival to Canada. Hope this makes sense!!
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
10,996
5,580
Thanks buddy for the clarification. The thing is that If we raise PR renewal request before current one expires then is it possible to get it renew on the H&C grounds? I don't know the process. As I said my wife is short by 31 days approx. and that's due to the we got TRV for our new born in months which delayed her arrival to Canada. Hope this makes sense!!
I still don't understand your question, really. If you are in compliance, you can sponsor the child with no issues (whether you have renewed your card or not). If in your first five years, the easiest test is whether you have been out of Canada less than 1095 days (since landing), and if so, you are in compliance.

So the real question is: WHY renew the card? If she's in Canada, she's here legally. She doesnt' need the card.

My substantive guess about her potential H&C-based renewal is that I would guess it would possibly take longer and not provide much benefit compared to just waiting and applying later, and also have some risk of more serious issues, so just wait instead.

But again: I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve. Her not having a valid PR card is (in and of itself) not a problem, unless you identify which specific benefit of having the card is an issue for you.

[Note: I know of course that there are good reasons to have the card, and to renew as a matter of course - but in her case, trying to renew while out of compliance may be more of a risk than not having the card.]
 
 

ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
403
10
New Delhi
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
New Delhi Visa Office
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
Med's Request
12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
Awaited
LANDED..........
Awaited
I still don't understand your question, really. If you are in compliance, you can sponsor the child with no issues (whether you have renewed your card or not). If in your first five years, the easiest test is whether you have been out of Canada less than 1095 days (since landing), and if so, you are in compliance.

So the real question is: WHY renew the card? If she's in Canada, she's here legally. She doesnt' need the card.

My substantive guess about her potential H&C-based renewal is that I would guess it would possibly take longer and not provide much benefit compared to just waiting and applying later, and also have some risk of more serious issues, so just wait instead.

But again: I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve. Her not having a valid PR card is (in and of itself) not a problem, unless you identify which specific benefit of having the card is an issue for you.

[Note: I know of course that there are good reasons to have the card, and to renew as a matter of course - but in her case, trying to renew while out of compliance may be more of a risk than not having the card.]
So the thing is she is not RO complaint as she lived more than 1095 days in past 5 years(completing on Mar21, 2023). so for this reason I am asking if we can apply on H&C grounds. its nothing to do with the baby. She lived more days outside of Canada as our baby born outside of Canada and got Visitor visa very late due to which my wife had to stay with her. Hope this is fine.
But somehow I got a response that H&C is complex and takes time right? so better wait for 2 yrs before renewing the card.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
10,996
5,580
So the thing is she is not RO complaint as she lived more than 1095 days in past 5 years(completing on Mar21, 2023). so for this reason I am asking if we can apply on H&C grounds. its nothing to do with the baby. She lived more days outside of Canada as our baby born outside of Canada and got Visitor visa very late due to which my wife had to stay with her. Hope this is fine.
But somehow I got a response that H&C is complex and takes time right? so better wait for 2 yrs before renewing the card.
Is she in Canada?

If so, why do you think you need to do anything?
 

ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
403
10
New Delhi
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
New Delhi Visa Office
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
Med's Request
12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
Awaited
LANDED..........
Awaited
Is she in Canada?

If so, why do you think you need to do anything?
Yes she is in canada and we are worried when we can renew her PR card which is expring in Mar23 and she lived more than 1095 days outside of Canada.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
10,996
5,580
Yes she is in canada and we are worried when we can renew her PR card which is expring in Mar23 and she lived more than 1095 days outside of Canada.
I repeat: you can wait instead and just NOT renew her PR card until she is back in compliance. She does NOT need the PR card to live and work in Canada.

Problem solved.
 
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
44,658
10,565
So the thing is she is not RO complaint as she lived more than 1095 days in past 5 years(completing on Mar21, 2023). so for this reason I am asking if we can apply on H&C grounds. its nothing to do with the baby. She lived more days outside of Canada as our baby born outside of Canada and got Visitor visa very late due to which my wife had to stay with her. Hope this is fine.
But somehow I got a response that H&C is complex and takes time right? so better wait for 2 yrs before renewing the card.
Having to wait to get a TRV for your child would unlikely be considered an H&C reason. You had the option of having the child in Canada it was a personal choice not to, wait until she has met her RO before renewing PR card as others have recommended.
 

bricksonly

Hero Member
Mar 18, 2018
224
6
So the thing is she is not RO complaint as she lived more than 1095 days in past 5 years(completing on Mar21, 2023). so for this reason I am asking if we can apply on H&C grounds. its nothing to do with the baby. She lived more days outside of Canada as our baby born outside of Canada and got Visitor visa very late due to which my wife had to stay with her. Hope this is fine.
But somehow I got a response that H&C is complex and takes time right? so better wait for 2 yrs before renewing the card.
Your wife is just a little bit less than 730 days rules when your cards expired. Just wait until she fulfill RO then you are OK to submit application for new card. I can't see why you need to wait 2 years. 731 days is more than enough (if you don't make calculation mistake) to renew your new card.