Fighting for MSP Provincial Coverage for PR applicants in process

[BrookeTravels]

Hey all -

I'm looking for responses from people who have gone through this process themselves and have first hand experience to help with my unique situation.

Question: At what point am I able to apply for Provincial Health Coverage in BC?

Question 2: What kind of proof/documents will we need to present in order to successfully receive MSP coverage while waiting for final PR status approval? (I'm expecting this to take 8-10 months - Applying Outbound, US Citizen)

Details: I am currently in BC with legal status as a visitor, married to a Canadian citizen. We are applying for PR status this month.

I do not have a work or study permit at this time, and do not plan to have one until my PR is completed. Finding work as a Visitor seems nearly impossible.

So...... there we are! Thank you sincerely for your help!

 

[Ponga]

The `helpful' folks at MSP will tell you that you will be eligible as soon as your portion of the sponsorship application shows (in Ecas) as `in-process'...which is completely wrong. You were eligible the moment that CIC received the complete application (Sponsor + Applicant TOGETHER), but the majority of them have no clue how their own system is suppose to work.

Fortunately, your part of the application will go `in-process' after your sponsor has been approved, which seems to take ~ 60 days for an Outland application. Inland applicants have to wait ~ 17 months before they have sponsor approval, and then see `in-process' for their part of the application.

Once you see that your application is in-process in Ecas, simple print that page and send it to MSP, along with the enrollment application.

 

[Mightytonewheel]

The `helpful' folks at MSP will tell you that you will be eligible as soon as your portion of the sponsorship application shows (in Ecas) as `in-process'...which is completely wrong. You were eligible the moment that CIC received the complete application (Sponsor + Applicant TOGETHER), but the majority of them have no clue how their own system is suppose to work.

Fortunately, your part of the application will go `in-process' after your sponsor has been approved, which seems to take ~ 60 days for an Outland application. Inland applicants have to wait ~ 17 months before they have sponsor approval, and then see `in-process' for their part of the application.

Once you see that your application is in-process in Ecas, simple print that page and send it to MSP, along with the enrollment application.

Really? This information is in totally different than the information I received from MSP. When I called, the 'helpful' folks at MSP said that my wife becomes eligible when the application shows "in-process" -- but they also said that there is a waiting period (two months, plus the balance of the month in which she arrived) before she can be eligible to apply for coverage. Then, add the processing time before she's covered (about 30 days). So we calculated that my wife would be in Canada for about 110 days during which she would need to purchase private medical coverage.

Is this incorrect?

 

[Ponga]

In reality...no, it is not true. The part about the waiting period is true.

If a person submits a sponsorship application and it is received today, for example, they would be eligible to apply, as of today.
The waiting period would be the remainder of this month, plus two months, making the date of coverage June 1st. It's based upon whatever day MSP `thinks' you're eligible to apply and has nothing to do with when a person `arrives' in Canada, at least no for those applying because of a sponsorship application having been submitted.

Unfortunately, they seem to want to start the clock based on what Ecas shows instead. While this is not that big of a deal for an Outland applicant, it's a ridiculous uphill battle for most Inland applicants.

 

[BrookeTravels]

In reality...no, it is not true. The part about the waiting period is true.

If a person submits a sponsorship application and it is received today, for example, they would be eligible to apply, as of today.
The waiting period would be the remainder of this month, plus two months, making the date of coverage June 1st. It's based upon whatever day MSP `thinks' you're eligible to apply and has nothing to do with when a person `arrives' in Canada, at least no for those applying because of a sponsorship application having been submitted.

Unfortunately, they seem to want to start the clock based on what Ecas shows instead. While this is not that big of a deal for an Outland applicant, it's a ridiculous uphill battle for most Inland applicants.

Thank you both for the insight. I'm still trying to figure out what sort of details/documents I need to bring forth to MSP once we apply for my PR. Both of us are hard workers, and will make sure we excuse every effort in order to be treated properly, according to my rights to benefits.

The only issue I have found is the wording on their website. Lots of 'if's' and 'potentially'... basically saying while in process for PR, you can only gain MSP if you are NOT in BC as a visitor or tourist. The catch-22 is that's the ONLY legal way I can be in Canada until the PR is completely processed. It seems so entirely backwards and leaves out a very important group of immigrants. *sigh*

 

[Ponga]

Have you seen this thread:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t184207.0.html

I was one of the lucky ones, thanks to help from someone here, but it was NOT easy.

 

[BrookeTravels]

Have you seen this thread:
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t184207.0.html

I was one of the lucky ones, thanks to help from someone here, but it was NOT easy.

This is an absolute goldmine! Thank you so much!

I don't mind fighting as long as the information I have is correct, and that thread is full of precise details and info. Perfect for when we apply

 

[Mightytonewheel]

In reality...no, it is not true. The part about the waiting period is true.

If a person submits a sponsorship application and it is received today, for example, they would be eligible to apply, as of today.
The waiting period would be the remainder of this month, plus two months, making the date of coverage June 1st. It's based upon whatever day MSP `thinks' you're eligible to apply and has nothing to do with when a person `arrives' in Canada, at least no for those applying because of a sponsorship application having been submitted.

Unfortunately, they seem to want to start the clock based on what Ecas shows instead. While this is not that big of a deal for an Outland applicant, it's a ridiculous uphill battle for most Inland applicants.

Very helpful, Ponga. So you're saying that we're eligible to apply based on the date CIC indicates they received the application? Even if the waiting period has not yet expired? I suppose, then, the strategy would be to apply as soon as CIC says they received the app, and see what MSP does.

 

[Ponga]

Very helpful, Ponga. So you're saying that we're eligible to apply based on the date CIC indicates they received the application? Even if the waiting period has not yet expired? I suppose, then, the strategy would be to apply as soon as CIC says they received the app, and see what MSP does.

Yes. In my case, my application was received by CIC in December 2013, so my date of coverage eligibility was supposed to be March 1, 2014...but because I had to fight with them about when I was really eligible to apply, my coverage didn't start for another couple of months after that.

My biggest mistake, was that I submitted an Inland application, because I was in Canada and didn't realize that Outland was a much better option, much less even an option at all. MSP seems to think that an applicant needs to show that their portion of the application `package' is `in-process' before they can apply. This is simply not true. They only have to show that the application has been `accepted for processing'...which means the day that it arrives at their facility (mail room), which is the official AOR date. This is the true date that a person is eligible to apply, which is when the waiting period actually starts.

Since it takes ~ 17 months for an Inland's portion to show as in-process (versus ~ 2 months for Outland), this is a huge ordeal for Inland applicants.

 

[Mightytonewheel]

Yes. In my case, my application was received by CIC in December 2013, so my date of coverage eligibility was supposed to be March 1, 2014...but because I had to fight with them about when I was really eligible to apply, my coverage didn't start for another couple of months after that.

My biggest mistake, was that I submitted an Inland application, because I was in Canada and didn't realize that Outland was a much better option, much less even an option at all. MSP seems to think that an applicant needs to show that their portion of the application `package' is `in-process' before they can apply. This is simply not true. They only have to show that the application has been `accepted for processing'...which means the day that it arrives at their facility (mail room), which is the official AOR date. This is the true date that a person is eligible to apply, which is when the waiting period actually starts.

Since it takes ~ 17 months for an Inland's portion to show as in-process (versus ~ 2 months for Outland), this is a huge ordeal for Inland applicants.

Well, we'll see what they say. I found this document from them (http://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/health/health-drug-coverage/medical-services-plan/bc-residents/eligibility-and-enrolment/are-you-eligible/covering-a-spouse-or-child-who-is-an-applicant-for-permanent-resident-status-in-canada.pdf) to be quite vague. For instance:

"Certain non-permanent residents may be deemed residents and thus be considered eligible (e.g., many holders of study and work permits valid for six or more months and many applicants for permanent resident status who are the spouse or child of an eligible B.C. resident). Tourists and visitors to B.C. are not eligible for provincial health care benefits."

Well, if you're a spouse, and in Canada, and have applied outland, there's a good chance you're in Canada as a visitor. I remember I talked with them about this. In their view, if you're in Canada and have applied for a permanent residency, you're effectively a resident. But in the eyes of CIC, you're a visitor until they say otherwise.

Screw it. I'm going to apply and see what happens.

 

[Ponga]

A person that has applied for spousal sponsorship (even someone in Canada that submits an Outland application) is a deemed resident, per the information in the Medicare Protection Act:

Part 2 — Beneficiaries
Deemed residency

2 The following persons are deemed to be residents for the purposes of the definition:

(a) a person admitted to Canada as a student who,

(i) possesses a valid student authorization issued under the Immigration Act (Canada) before its repeal or a study permit issued under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (Canada), for a period of 6 or more months,

(ii) continues to retain such valid authorization, and

(iii) meets the criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c) of the definition;

(b) a person admitted to Canada to work who,

(i) possesses a valid employment authorization issued under the Immigration Act (Canada) before its repeal or a work permit issued under the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act (Canada), for a period of 6 or more months,

(ii) continues to retain such valid authorization, and

(iii) meets the criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c) of the definition;

(c) a diplomat accredited to represent another country in Canada who meets the criterion under paragraph (c) of the definition;

(d) a person who

(i) is a spouse or child of a resident if the person has applied for permanent resident status and as long as the application remains active, and

(ii) meets the criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c) of the definition;

 

[Mightytonewheel]

Thanks, Ponga. +1.

 

[BrookeTravels]

Well, if you're a spouse, and in Canada, and have applied outland, there's a good chance you're in Canada as a visitor. I remember I talked with them about this. In their view, if you're in Canada and have applied for a permanent residency, you're effectively a resident. But in the eyes of CIC, you're a visitor until they say otherwise.

This statement right here 110% explains the frustration I have with where to go with applying for my MSP coverage. I will be applying exactly ^^ this way. I have been here legally on my visitors status, and have applied for an extension so we can remain together while the Outbound PR application processes. Having MSP's during this process should seriously be a RIGHT of anyone going through the serious process of applying for residency.

 

[BrookeTravels]

(d) a person who

(i) is a spouse or child of a resident if the person has applied for permanent resident status and as long as the application remains active, and

(ii) meets the criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c) of the definition;

^ Quick question about this --> What is the listed criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c)? Do you have a link to it perhaps? Just want to make sure I get in all the reading I need to fully understand my status. *thumbs up*

 

[Ponga]

^ Quick question about this --> What is the listed criteria under paragraphs (b) and (c)? Do you have a link to it perhaps? Just want to make sure I get in all the reading I need to fully understand my status. *thumbs up*

http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/426_97


And, there's this...from an experienced Vancouver immigration lawyer:
http://immigratetocanada.blogspot.ca/2007/06/bc-msp-coverage.html

...The rules for eligibility are complicated and confusing. At times, in my experience, HIBC, the private company administering MSP, fails to understand the rules themselves. We have seen a significant decrease in the understanding and application of these rules on the part of HIBC since they received the portfolio from the province.

If you believe you are eligible, persistence may be required to get the results you deserve. Given the cost of health care in this province without MSP coverage, a little hard work is well worth the effort.