Effective date of Bill C24

[mathlete]

Most of the so called Canadians of convenience are going abroad after they apply for citizenship. The reason they are leaving Canada is that they are better abroad , that's why they don't want to live here anymore, because they are working something better which pays them better.

Now with this law their intentions are like "OK we gonna stay on Welfare until the Oath." Because they will not leave until they get at least the citizenship.

And the government in practice is helping the Canadian of convenience , because the government is the one who will pay their bills until the Oath. Many of the CoCs say now " Perfect, we gonna extend our family vacation in Canada by doing nothing for another 2 years and meanwhile the government will pay us."

Now the Canadians of convenience will hurt Canada even more.

That's why I don't see how this law is fighting against them, when practically this law is a big favour for the CoCs.

Well PRs should not get welfare that is the problem Sure in those cases you mentioned these CoCs will leach for longer, but what is stopping many of these people from continuing to claim benefits once they are citizens? Some even many may go but many will stay. Canada doesn't owe these people anything. Not citizenship, not welfare not even timely citizenship applications because wtf have these people done for Canada? You work here you pay taxes you are owed something, but if you come here on a hope and prayer and things don't go your way you are not entitled to a passport as a consolation prize.

 

[MUFC]

So you can see why I just don't see how this law is working in practice in a good way for Canada.
The reality is now Canada will be in bigger trouble, because it will pay much more welfare for much longer time, without any contribution from these people.
They will just live here for free, the government will pay everything, the budget will be hit a lot more harder...

Where is the benefit for the regular Canadian in all that, then the money from his taxes will go completely wasted by forcing these people to stay here until the Oath.

 

[dpenabill]

Clarification: most of those targeted by CIC as seeking Canadian citizenship for a passport of convenience were deliberately engaged in the exploitation of the Canadian system in order to obtain the Canadian passport, and its benefits (convenience of international travel at the top of the list), with no intent to actually become an in fact citizen of Canada.

More than a few innocents have been swept asunder by sometimes draconian efforts to preclude (as much as possible) these who, make no mistake, leverage the letter of the law (and more than a few not bothering to do even that) to get the Canadian passport, which for many is more or less like obtaining a university degree, a rung on the career ladder.

The extent to which many were exploiting (or attempting to exploit) the Canadian immigration system in this way does not excuse or justify the hardships imposed on those who are legitimate immigrants in pursuit of a life in Canada. CIC holds a big share of the blame, along with those who have been disingenuous and fraudulent, for the abusively excessive timelines in processing and otherwise overly-intrusive impositions suffered by many sincere and genuine immigrants.

In the meantime, though, the SCCA, when it comes into force, will indeed make the path a lot longer and more demanding for everyone, and this is being done by the government largely to discourage those whose purpose is to exploit the Canadian system. Not only will it be imperfect, but it will disproportionately affect the legitimate immigrants. And that is regrettable. That said, for those who are coming with the hope and plan to actually become in-fact-citizens, the path will remain open and I am sure there will continue to be millions making this journey every decade.

 

[mathlete]

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/brutal-winter-and-a-jobless-immigrant-family-t272380.0.html

This is a tragic story. The obvious fix it to stop issuing skilled worker permits for jobs that are unavailable.

I feel like this is not all there is to this story. I think there is a huge disconnect between the government and the private sector. The private sector may say "Hey we need computer programmers" and the government goes out and issues a bunch of PRs to computer programmers.

The problem here (and I speak as an employer) is that many of the people who are trained in foreign countries got an inferior education or are just quite plainly not very good candidates.

Educated talented people by enlarge do not simply pack up and leave for foreign lands on a hope and prayer. People that do that are desperate and not necessarily the most employable.

 

[tarikMontreal]

I think this law works the benefits of a small portion of the canadian society who wants to have slaves emprisoned in this country and keep the economy going and being payed at minimal wage with a low loonie (thank you harper for the results you gave so far!) while they accept high paid jobs outside the country and can come back whenever they are fired or just kicked off to return to the government jobs they had here before with the benefits they had. Unfortunately it does not work like that because immigrants in this country are too educated to accept that RIP OFF OF CANADIAN IMMIGRATION game they want to play.

 

[mathlete]

@dpenabill: Very well said, I completely agree with your summary.

I was trying to understand why and how somebody could exploit the system that would prompt the kind of misguided corrective action on the citizenship side that we have seen.

I think the government has it backwards when they are trying to prevent "unwanted residents" from becoming citizens. They should instead figure out how to prevent acquiring unwanted residents in the first place. A suggestion I have for that is to simplify the PR process and require that anyone coming in on a non-family sponsored PR have a job offer in Canada. Next they need to make the PR process much faster and simpler and require that the employer "sponsor" the applicant.

 

[mathlete]

I think this law works the benefits of a small portion of the canadian society who wants to have slaves emprisoned in this country and keep the economy going and being payed at minimal wage with a low loonie (thank you harper for the results you gave so far!) while they accept high paid jobs outside the country and can come back whenever they are fired or just kicked off to return to the government jobs they had here before with the benefits they had. Unfortunately it does not work like that because immigrants in this country are too educated to accept that RIP OFF OF CANADIAN IMMIGRATION game they want to play.

You are the type of person who blames anyone for your problems with the exception of yourself.

Harper came to power in October of 2008 when the CAD was .8 to the USD under him it remained at parity for most of his tenure. The loonies decline is purely a result of low oil prices little to do with Canada or its Prime minister

If Harper wanted to keep wages low and boost growth he should simply allow the unskilled masses into Canada. They will gladly take the minimum wage and live here because its a much better deal then they are getting in India, China, Mexico or most other 3rd world holes.

The reason you are upset is because you feel you are entitled to some corner office position with a high salary and can't understand why this wasn't provided to you. Most Canadians do not have white collar jobs and most Canadians are pretty well educated. This place is really competitive. Being an average-joe programmer/architect/lawyer or whatever is not going to cut it here. On top of that you are an immigrant so you are at a cultural disadvantage, a networking disadvantage, a communication disadvantage and probably an educational disadvantage.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@ mathlete: Your comments are quite offensive to overall majority population of skilled workers. According to you almost all of the Skilled workers are nontalented people as almost everybody is coming on a hope and a prayer, without a job already waiting for them..

"Educated talented people by enlarge do not simply pack up and leave for foreign lands on a hope and prayer. People that do that are desperate and not necessarily the most employable. "

This is a tragic story. The obvious fix it to stop issuing skilled worker permits for jobs that are unavailable.

I feel like this is not all there is to this story. I think there is a huge disconnect between the government and the private sector. The private sector may say "Hey we need computer programmers" and the government goes out and issues a bunch of PRs to computer programmers.

The problem here (and I speak as an employer) is that many of the people who are trained in foreign countries got an inferior education or are just quite plainly not very good candidates.

Educated talented people by enlarge do not simply pack up and leave for foreign lands on a hope and prayer. People that do that are desperate and not necessarily the most employable.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@ mathlete,
I agree for anything the blame should start with self. But about your comment, there is a total disconnect in the Canadian immigration process and its been there since ages. Also the unskilled masses that you say of, wont even qualify for immigration because they dont have enough to cover the immigration application fee, let alone pay flight ticket to move. These unskilled masses dont have enough skills English skills, nor would be able to learn them ever in their life.

So yes if Harper want these unskilled people from places like India, China, Mexico or South Africa, then he needs to:

1) Waive the Immigration application fee
2) Pay for the flight tickets
3) Pay for accommodation for these people
4) Give some start up money
5) Open their language schools, as these people dont know english and forget about teaching them as they cant learn

And the list goes on.

So whats another cheap way to get the working labor, get people who can cover all the above cost, take the unwanted jobs and live with a hope and a prayer that someday their Canadian dream will come to realization.


"If Harper wanted to keep wages low and boost growth he should simply allow the unskilled masses into Canada. They will gladly take the minimum wage and live here because its a much better deal then they are getting in India, China, Mexico or most other 3rd world holes."

You are the type of person who blames anyone for your problems with the exception of yourself.

Harper came to power in October of 2008 when the CAD was .8 to the USD under him it remained at parity for most of his tenure. The loonies decline is purely a result of low oil prices little to do with Canada or its Prime minister

If Harper wanted to keep wages low and boost growth he should simply allow the unskilled masses into Canada. They will gladly take the minimum wage and live here because its a much better deal then they are getting in India, China, Mexico or most other 3rd world holes.

The reason you are upset is because you feel you are entitled to some corner office position with a high salary and can't understand why this wasn't provided to you. Most Canadians do not have white collar jobs and most Canadians are pretty well educated. This place is really competitive. Being an average-joe programmer/architect/lawyer or whatever is not going to cut it here. On top of that you are an immigrant so you are at a cultural disadvantage, a networking disadvantage, a communication disadvantage and probably an educational disadvantage.

 

[mathlete]

@ mathlete: Your comments are quite offensive to overall majority population of skilled workers. According to you almost all of the Skilled workers are nontalented people as almost everybody is coming on a hope and a prayer, without a job already waiting for them..

"Educated talented people by enlarge do not simply pack up and leave for foreign lands on a hope and prayer. People that do that are desperate and not necessarily the most employable. "

I didn't say almost all; I said by enlarge, but yes that is my opinion and I can see why that could be offensive but it comes from my own personal experiences.

Maybe the Canadian in me has made me more risk averse but I couldn't imagine say packing up to go Silicone Valley and hope someone will hire me, with my entire family in tow. As a 22 year old single guy, sure why not? Otherwise it just seems really irresponsible, which happens to be a trait that employers do not value.

I just found this article that someone else has posted: http://www.macleans.ca/economy/business/land-of-misfortune/

It basically talks about exactly what we have been discussing, opining in its conclusion that the government is bad at picking successful applicants.

 

[mathlete]

@ mathlete,
I agree for anything the blame should start with self. But about your comment, there is a total disconnect in the Canadian immigration process and its been there since ages. Also the unskilled masses that you say of, wont even qualify for immigration because they dont have enough to cover the immigration application fee, let alone pay flight ticket to move. These unskilled masses dont have enough skills English skills, nor would be able to learn them ever in their life.

So yes if Harper want these unskilled people from places like India, China, Mexico or South Africa, then he needs to:

1) Waive the Immigration application fee
2) Pay for the flight tickets
3) Pay for accommodation for these people
4) Give some start up money
5) Open their language schools, as these people dont know english and forget about teaching them as they cant learn

And the list goes on.

So whats another cheap way to get the working labor, get people who can cover all the above cost, take the unwanted jobs and live with a hope and a prayer that someday their Canadian dream will come to realization.


"If Harper wanted to keep wages low and boost growth he should simply allow the unskilled masses into Canada. They will gladly take the minimum wage and live here because its a much better deal then they are getting in India, China, Mexico or most other 3rd world holes."

So essentially you think that Harper's strategy which he inherited I suppose from the liberals is to "trick" skilled people into paying for flights and fees so they can come to Canada and work low wage positions? Venezuelans, Mexicans and many others pay thousands to human traffickers to get into the US. Libyans and Syrians are doing the same to get into Europe. Many families would be only to happy for their unskilled kin to join them in Canada such as all the nanny Filipinos. Harper like the liberals before him are trying to grow the economy and keep wages high. I don't believe that skilled worker PR in its current form is the way to do that.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@ mathlete:
Yes i think the system is designed (either by Tory or Liberals doesnt matter) to "trick" people to bring in money and to bring in cheap labor. That is THE opinion widely held in the immigrant community.

And yes there are many who are paying a lot to go to US or Europe, because these places are still "The Land of Opportunity" where as Canada sadly not so much.

And about going to Silicon Valley, brother try and go there, you will be treated better than the folks in Toronto (referring to your posted story).

So essentially you think that Harper's strategy which he inherited I suppose from the liberals is to "trick" skilled people into paying for flights and fees so they can come to Canada and work low wage positions? Venezuelans, Mexicans and many others pay thousands to human traffickers to get into the US. Libyans and Syrians are doing the same to get into Europe. Many families would be only to happy for their unskilled kin to join them in Canada such as all the nanny Filipinos. Harper like the liberals before him are trying to grow the economy and keep wages high. I don't believe that skilled worker PR in its current form is the way to do that.

 

[asaif]

If having a job offer is going to be the basis for accepting immigration applications, most of the immigrants will come here as fast food and agricultural workers. The next day those workers get citizenship they will quit and look for better jobs or live on welfare. The reasons that made these jobs unattractive to many original Canadians in the first place are the same ones that will make them also unattractive to newly naturalized Canadians. Just look at the temporary foreign worker program statistics and you'll see what the business community in Canada is looking for: cheap, exploitable and easily-dumpable workers. This is the real mismatch between the expectations of employers and those of immigrants and not the alleged skills gap. Most immigrants are, in fact, over-qualified for the jobs they apply for, but employers are not looking for more qualifications but for less labor cost and rights to be able to compete in the global markets without affecting their bottom lines.

Without an apartheid regime where some segments of the society are forced perpetually to do the kind of jobs that no one wants to, the immigration/citizenship system will never be (and shall not be) the answer to labor-shortage problem of the private sector. A good analogy would be expecting immigrants to live in the arctic regions of Canada where few white Canadians want to live. Immigrants will be willing to accept this requirement until they get the citizenship and they will move south or run away. An immigration policy should be built on a strategic vision of the nation's future and not on the short-sighted considerations of the business community. Short-term problems have to be addressed through short-term solutions like the TFWP.

 

[tarikMontreal]

@CanadianCountry : you should give up with this guy. Even a dead body has a clearer point of view.

 

[CanadianCountry]

@tarik:
I agree. In my observation some new Canadians start to think that they are 'holier than thou'. These people will defend any b#llsh#t coming their way because, hey they are Canadian now and the b#llsh#t coming their way from Ottawa is also Canadian. That is true patriotism to them, a situation when you start calling your sh#t as gold.

No reasoning ever works for these people, and they always believe that nothing could be wrong with their new home (Canada). An honest critique is sometimes difficult to swallow.

@ CanadianCountry : you should give up with this guy. Even a dead body has a clearer point of view.