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Difficulties in Canada

CanadaWeCome

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LokiJr01 said:
Part of migrating to a new country is accepting the fact that you start from scratch. Everyone starts with that. Pride and loneliness are what will stand in your way in succeeding in this venture.

For me, if I have to be a bagger in a grocery shop, why not? It's going to pay the bills. Swallow your pride and take the job. You won't stay being a bagger forever anyway. Keep the dream alive and you will be back to your original job in no time.
Pawshi said:
Sorry. Why the pride is lost when you start from scratch again? It is a learning cycle. I am at top of my career in my native country. Me and my spouse earn more than US$ 100 K in India. But still we want to settle in canada for the kids. We are preparing ourselves to start the life from scratch. I am taking technical training and my spouse is also taking technical training like CPA, so that we can start all over again. We are saving all where possible, so that we have enough to settle down even without job.

My wife is a finance controller (almost a head of function). But she does not hesitate to start as a book keeper and accounts officer. Same is the case for me.

Even if we have to do some odd jobs for the initial months/years we are ready for that.

Please remember life is all about learning relearning.......
Very true and well said both!
 

54321

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johnjkjk said:
Pride isn't the problem. The concept of "status" from career is a middle class mentality that pervades mostly in developing countries.
if there was no status difference then why did Europeans discriminate every other race? social hierarchy exists in ANY human society --> do you honestly believe that the 1% or the upper class in Canada look at you as equal to them? also then why even speak of "climb the social ladder"?

everyone strives in life to be someone, to be somewhere --> it is a way to EARN respect. one of the question for most immigrants is: how long can i be a taxi driver or serve lattes?
 

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rajibsam said:
No one learns swimming by just watching a pool from distance. One has to go inside the pool. From your home country, probability of finding job in Canada is absolutely zero. No one will take you unless face to face interview is done. If you want to find job, come to Canada and search for job. What happened to your friend need not happen to you. job also depends on one's skill set- are you able to communicate properly, do you have skills in your field which will set you apart from others, do you have good resume and cover letter, is your field on demand, etc etc. All of my friends with varied experience in IT (even with no exp) got job within 2-3 months of post graduate work permit (not even PR). Before finding the job some suggested that getting permanent full time job in work permit is almost impossible and only contracting will be available - but most of them got full time permanent, even one got into permanent govt job with work permit. So every ones experience is different. The most important factors are your communication ability and your skills. If it's not as per Canadian requirement, you will struggle (that's why ielts has so much importance in express entry). If it takes time for one to get job then introspect these skills and join a community college or university to upgrade yourself. That will help you in networking and more opportunities. Govt provides support (osap) for education.
Well said rajibsam. +1 for you :)
 

johnjkjk

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54321 said:
if there was no status difference then why did Europeans discriminate every other race? social hierarchy exists in ANY human society --> do you honestly believe that the 1% or the upper class in Canada look at you as equal to them? also then why even speak of "climb the social ladder"?

everyone strives in life to be someone, to be somewhere --> it is a way to EARN respect. one of the question for most immigrants is: how long can i be a taxi driver or serve lattes?
Most people from the West do not believe in the concept of status derived from career, particularly in modern day western nations as compared to developing countries. The people that do get stuck in the rat race. When did I speak of "climbing the social ladder"? This is a redundant viewpoint. The only ladder to climb is to overcome's one's false sense of pride.

Also note that I make a distinction between skilled labour and unskilled labour, in which latter group falls 'survival jobs' and should be left for unemployed Canadian youth. Most unemployed professional migrants won't take up skilled labour because of a false sense of pride. How many software programmers from India will retrain as a highly skilled farrier in a rural area? They would rather work as a labourer in a warehouse for the rest of their lives, barely surviving, whereas a skilled farrier commands great respect in their community and offers a great standard of living. Most highly educated professionals I know in the West will fight for the chance to retrain in rural skilled labour and enjoy a high quality of life out in the country. Whereas most educated professionals from the East will do survival jobs for the rest of their lives and will convince themselves that they are giving their children a "better opportunity". This is when false pride dictates a false social hierarchy. You really need to get out of your box and see the world for what it is.

Indeed this is a source of conflict between Canadians (and Westerns in general) and immigrants. In small provinces, people don't like immigrants (and even Canadians from urban areas), because they bring with them this false sense of elitism- showing off your car, talking down to people who are in skilled work, boasting about your university education etc. You in particular would not at all be well liked by such people. Unfortunately it is people like you who create a bad impression of immigrants.

Also social hierarchy also doesn't exist everywhere. As I've clearly stated, the concept of "keeping up with the Jones'" is a false middle class mentality. Perhaps when you migrate to Canada, it would be wise to connect with those outside of your comfort group, who can teach you a thing or two about society and mindset regarding respect in doing hard and honest labour. The 1%ers can believe that they want, but why should people aspire to want to be the 1%? Aspiration should be for a fair and equal society. I have no need to aspire to "be someone"- what does that even mean? My sense of pride and happiness is not derived from superficial vanity. And this has nothing to do with race.

As to your final question which you say relates to most migrants, my point was, as long as migrants themselves are pushing the perception that they are only good enough to be taxi drivers, rather than giving the impression that they will be 'viably employed or bust', then employers will continue to exploit them and not respect them. Respect can be earned, certainly, but working for year upon year in a supermarket does not send the message that migrants are strongly aspiring to be gainfully employed. Perception matters.
 

Alexios07

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johnjkjk said:
Indeed this is a source of conflict between Canadians (and Westerns in general) and immigrants. In small provinces, people don't like immigrants (and even Canadians from urban areas), because they bring with them this false sense of elitism- showing off your car, talking down to people who are in skilled work, boasting about your university education etc. You in particular would not at all be well liked by such people. Unfortunately it is people like you who create a bad impression of immigrants.
Vey well said. I am a firm believer that some foreign cultures or even religions are not compatible with Canadian or Western values at all, if we don't make them intergrate.

That's why we need to FORCE new immigrants to learn English to a certain level (at least CLB 7 or 8 ). After ESL classes, then will come the culture classes, you need to learn how to adapt to Canadian society, how to behave, treat and respect other people. You are the one that immigrates to Canada, so you HAVE TO learn the Canadian values, not impose your belief and cultures on local Canadians.

Switzerlands: “If You Reject Our Culture, We Will Reject Your Application For Citizenship

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-citizenship-muslim-girls-refuse-swim-boys-islam-immigration-europe-a7111601.html

Two Muslim brothers who refused to shake hands with their female teacher on the grounds of religious restriction were soon the centre of widespread media coverage and public uproar. The boys' father, an imam at the Basel mosque, immediately had his naturalisation request suspended by authorities, while any parent or guardian who refuses to shake a teacher's hand can now expect a $5,000 fine.

One immigrant family from Kosovo who had been in the country for a decade was told their tendency to wear shabby clothing in the street and not greet passersby was proof of their lack of integration.

And an American who had lived in the country for 40 years had his application refused after being unable to name any Swiss friends or nearby villages.
 

foodie69

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Alexios07 said:
Vey well said. I am a firm believer that some foreign cultures or even religions are not compatible with Canadian or Western values at all, if we don't make them intergrate.

That's why we need to FORCE new immigrants to learn English to a certain level (at least CLB 7 or 8 ). After ESL classes, then will come the culture classes, you need to learn how to adapt to Canadian society, how to behave, treat and respect other people. You are the one that immigrates to Canada, so you HAVE TO learn the Canadian values, not impose your belief and cultures on local Canadians.

Switzerlands: “If You Reject Our Culture, We Will Reject Your Application For Citizenship



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-citizenship-muslim-girls-refuse-swim-boys-islam-immigration-europe-a7111601.html
+10..if I could.

What if I go to India or Pakistan and want to become a citizen? In India I have to live for at least 12 years before I get a chance for citizenship, IF..! It is way to easy here in Canada..
 

54321

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johnjkjk said:
Also note that I make a distinction between skilled labour and unskilled labour, in which latter group falls 'survival jobs' and should be left for unemployed Canadian youth. Most unemployed professional migrants won't take up skilled labour because of a false sense of pride. How many software programmers from India will retrain as a highly skilled farrier in a rural area? They would rather work as a labourer in a warehouse for the rest of their lives, barely surviving, whereas a skilled farrier commands great respect in their community and offers a great standard of living. Most highly educated professionals I know in the West will fight for the chance to retrain in rural skilled labour and enjoy a high quality of life out in the country. Whereas most educated professionals from the East will do survival jobs for the rest of their lives and will convince themselves that they are giving their children a "better opportunity". This is when false pride dictates a false social hierarchy. You really need to get out of your box and see the world for what it is.
if you say being a 'farrier' and living in the 'countryside' is worth 'fighting for' = your ELITE (the one you don't belong in) has clearly convinced you that such occupations are acceptable --> then sheep comes to my mind and not shepherd --> one example of why certain parts of the world are slowly losing their ground.

johnjkjk said:
Also social hierarchy also doesn't exist everywhere. As I've clearly stated, the concept of "keeping up with the Jones'" is a false middle class mentality.
One can be mislead to believe otherwise if they have not seen or experienced it.

johnjkjk said:
The 1%ers can believe that they want, but why should people aspire to want to be the 1%? Aspiration should be for a fair and equal society. I have no need to aspire to "be someone"- what does that even mean?
i sure would like to live in such an Utopian society but we live in capitalism = always going to be those who have and those who don't --> hierarchy and social ladder are unavoidable, they have to be there. mankind chose this way. also from what you say then there would not be any need for one to make an effort, work hard and try to achieve their dreams and goals in life as opposed to some people who would be content on living in the countryside doing whatever they seem acceptable.
 

Alexios07

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foodie69 said:
+10..if I could.

What if I go to India or Pakistan and want to become a citizen? In India I have to live for at least 12 years before I get a chance for citizenship, IF..! It is way to easy here in Canada..
Don't you dare to bring your Western lifestyle there. Absolutely haram! /s

All jokes aside, yes, it's way easy to immigrate or seek refugee status in Canada or in Nordic countries. I'm sick with those buzzwords like "embrace and enrich Canadian culture", "new comers", then the government proceeds to ease up the language requirements. How the heck can you integrate and setup your new life in a foreign country without learning its language?
 

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Pawshi said:
Sorry. Why the pride is lost when you start from scratch again? It is a learning cycle. I am at top of my career in my native country. Me and my spouse earn more than US$ 100 K in India. But still we want to settle in canada for the kids. We are preparing ourselves to start the life from scratch. I am taking technical training and my spouse is also taking technical training like CPA, so that we can start all over again. We are saving all where possible, so that we have enough to settle down even without job.

My wife is a finance controller (almost a head of function). But she does not hesitate to start as a book keeper and accounts officer. Same is the case for me.

Even if we have to do some odd jobs for the initial months/years we are ready for that.

Please remember life is all about learning relearning.......
You're a good parent +1
 

johnjkjk

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54321 said:
if you say being a 'farrier' and living in the 'countryside' is worth 'fighting for' = your ELITE (the one you don't belong in) has clearly convinced you that such occupations are acceptable --> then sheep comes to my mind and not shepherd --> one example of why certain parts of the world are slowly losing their ground.

One can be mislead to believe otherwise if they have not seen or experienced it.

i sure would like to live in such an Utopian society but we live in capitalism = always going to be those who have and those who don't --> hierarchy and social ladder are unavoidable, they have to be there. mankind chose this way. also from what you say then there would not be any need for one to make an effort, work hard and try to achieve their dreams and goals in life as opposed to some people who would be content on living in the countryside doing whatever they seem acceptable.
You clearly are not from a Western country. That was my point- in a country like India, a skilled tradesperson is looked down upon whereas in the West, they are looked to with great respect. Do you even know what a farrier is (without Googling it), do you even practice equestrian? It's just one example of a rural trade that's highly skilled and very respected in the West. Find me a British or Canadian farrier who is poor/looked down upon and I'll eat my shoe. They are well paid, highly skilled and hugely respected. It seems you don't even understand what a highly skilled trade is- it is not unskilled work that anyone can do- you have to train for several years and gain PhD-level knowledge to be at the top of your profession e.g. the best swordsmiths in the US/Canada have PhDs in metallurgy.

You really haven't got a clue have you? Your world view seems to be limited to professional careers and reeks of folk from India who know nothing else (I know a huge number of doctors from Asian families in the UK who were forced into it by their backward family- once qualified they quit and became poets/actors/skilled craftspersons). Also most professionals from the west opt for professional careers for financial reasons alone and most have alternative real interests that they DREAM they could have had a chance to have a career in, but never could afford it. So a professional career really is for the poor middle class aspirational person who doesn't have a better choice in life. Talk about sheep. The ironic thing with people like you is- you are willing to do unskilled survival work (taxi, warehouse, supermarket etc), which is genuinely pathetic work, but you see a skilled rural trade as a bad job? I would never take up such unethical, unskilled work and often unhealthy work that is basically exploitation to feed consumerism and climate change.

Many highly skilled professionals FROM the West (born and raised for several generations) regret entering the ratrace and would 'fight for' an opportunity to retrain in a rural trade which offers a much better quality of life, lower stress and a greater sense of achievement in one's life. Indeed in the West, many of these software/banking etc professionals are amateur craftpersons- they join hobby clubs and at night dream of living in the country. Some achieve these dreams. London bankers have amongst the highest rates of suicide in the UK and they have to retire by age 40- some make it rich, retire and take up a skilled trade to satisfy their real DREAMS- most end up in the rat race and end up wasting their lives in poor health and lost dreams and ambitions. Very few end up as CEOs etc and they are the people who push the image of professional work being great- they want the SHEEP like you to take up their zero hour contract, stressful and unhealthy jobs. You're the sheep pal.

I'm from the UK, at the top of my engineering profession (money, "status" etc) and like nearly every single one of my Western peers, I have alternative long-term dreams. If I get an opportunity to retrain in a skilled rural trade in Canada I will certainly fight for it, but I won't be working as exploited slave labour (so called survival jobs). And that was the point that I had made originally- that perception matters; Canadian employers think that immigrants are only good enough for survival jobs, but if immigrants refused survival jobs and held out for highly skilled work, this would create a positive impression of immigrants as highly skilled and worth employing. If you fail in your profession, retrain and find another one, but don't end up being a slave labourer in a supermarket- you give all immigrants a bad image as being worthless. It doesn't matter if you need to pay the bills; there is lots of respectable and skilled work that can be done which doesn't fall into 'survival' category.

If you want to integrate in the West, you'd better leave your backward mindset behind.
 

gaurang.parmar

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You really haven't got a clue have you? Your world view seems to be limited to professional careers and reeks of folk from India who know nothing else (I know a huge number of doctors from Asian families in the UK who were forced into it by their backward family- once qualified they quit and became poets/actors/skilled craftspersons
Were you born Britisher? Why so much hate to Asian or Indians ? It reflects your personal view on specific other country people is not good. Give some respect to others as well. These countries people also have some special skills which they use in their countryside as well.
 

RegularGuy

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Pawshi said:
Sorry. Why the pride is lost when you start from scratch again? It is a learning cycle. I am at top of my career in my native country. Me and my spouse earn more than US$ 100 K in India. But still we want to settle in canada for the kids. We are preparing ourselves to start the life from scratch. I am taking technical training and my spouse is also taking technical training like CPA, so that we can start all over again. We are saving all where possible, so that we have enough to settle down even without job.

My wife is a finance controller (almost a head of function). But she does not hesitate to start as a book keeper and accounts officer. Same is the case for me.

Even if we have to do some odd jobs for the initial months/years we are ready for that.

Please remember life is all about learning relearning.......

You are fool leaving a nice paying career heading to Canada. I seriously suggest you to come here on a visitor visa for 6 months before going ahead with moving entirely. Do the cost benefit analysis.
 

RegularGuy

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Canada is good for -
1- super rich, who can establish business and have cash, business Network and are able to sustain losses for the initial period,
2- intellectually poor and uneducated, who can work any job, they think there pathetic jobs are luxurious when compared to jobs in back home countries.
3- people who work in regulated profession, who have the resources and willpower to get into their regulated professions like doctors, lawyers, dentists and pilots.

Moving here for your kids is not a very wise move. Canadian and American high school culture is very different. Only a few students go on to complete university. Most of the them starts working part time and starts earning a little. Easy money makes them believe education is a waste. In india, any poor individual can go to IITs and AIIMS by studying hard, and because these are highly subsidized by government. In capitalist US and Canada, no poor can go study at such institutes, the tuition runs in around $200k which is beyond the reach of most people. Only well established doctors are able to make their kids doctors. Do your research and make a wise decision. Grass always look greener on the other side.
 

KittYLoveCaD

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I'm from the UK, at the top of my engineering profession (money, "status" etc) and like nearly every single one of my Western peers, I have alternative long-term dreams. If I get an opportunity to retrain in a skilled rural trade in Canada I will certainly fight for it, but I won't be working as exploited slave labour (so called survival jobs). And that was the point that I had made originally- that perception matters; Canadian employers think that immigrants are only good enough for survival jobs, but if immigrants refused survival jobs and held out for highly skilled work, this would create a positive impression of immigrants as highly skilled and worth employing. If you fail in your profession, retrain and find another one, but don't end up being a slave labourer in a supermarket- you give all immigrants a bad image as being worthless. It doesn't matter if you need to pay the bills; there is lots of respectable and skilled work that can be done which doesn't fall into 'survival' category.

If you want to integrate in the West, you'd better leave your backward mindset behind.
[/quote]

I really like this part as it was there in my mind. Thanks bro for these well said lines
 

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gaurang.parmar said:
Were you born Britisher? Why so much hate to Asian or Indians ? It reflects your personal view on specific other country people is not good. Give some respect to others as well. These countries people also have some special skills which they use in their countryside as well.
I didn't mean to disparage any specific group, I just cited it to demonstrate my point. Of course everyone is hard working and have a lot of skills, but what is the use when these skills are being wasted because for some people look down upon certain skilled jobs, just because it's part of their cultural mindset. It is a fact that certain skilled professions which are highly regarded in the West are often looked down upon in certain communities. Indeed this affects also some aspirational middle class white folk too- it's not a racist thing, but I've seen so many examples of Asians being bullied by their families to drop their dreams in a skilled or creative industry and pursue because they feel it will "bring shame" to the family name. This is a backward mindset and needs to be challenged.