Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

[AshesNdust]

If that's what you really think, then I don't think there is point in arguing with you.
The priority in the middle of a pandemic should be the people who are already in the country, it should never be about bringing more people into the country. Especially at a time where even worldwide travel is closed. Since you spoke about most needed immigrants, which are obviously doctors, just for your information even if a person has been a doctor for 100 years in other countries they still can't work as doctors in Canada and their education is not recognized or used to benefit the country. I have a friend whose dad used to be the best heart surgeon in his country for 20 years, you know what he is doing now? Of course you don't... he is writting people vitamins prescriptions. While we all know the shortage of physicians this country has. So they are not even using the most important advantage of immigration. Oh my friend you have no idea what you are talking about so I suggest you go enjoy your weekend and not bother about this kind of issues.

People with asylum are already in the country. It’s the people *seeking* asylum who may or may not be in the country. So are doctors who have already done the needed interning, residency, and training who are PRs.

You clearly have no clue as to who is actually in this country and no understanding of the immigration process for many people in the system. The fact that you use an example of a friend’s relative, wow a whole person you aren’t even connected to, just highlights your ignorance and inability to understand that anecdotical evidence is not factual.

You seem to enjoy attacking people who you know nothing about nor their experiences with the immigration system. Newsflash, I’ve worked with about 500 people over the past few years who have had to immigrate here. That includes single people and those with family who have had to deal with their spouses employment. A few of them include doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, and many others. So, yeah, I know a bit about the hoops they have to jump through.
Maybe stop assuming people know less than you about things and stop with the personal attacks.

If you find Canada to be run by racist, noncaring people, you might want to rethink settling here. I certainly wouldn’t move to a country that was like that.

 

[Dana.D]

People with asylum are already in the country. It’s the people *seeking* asylum who may or may not be in the country. So are doctors who have already done the needed interning, residency, and training who are PRs.

You clearly have no clue as to who is actually in this country and no understanding of the immigration process for many people in the system. The fact that you use an example of a friend’s relative, wow a whole person you aren’t even connected to, just highlights your ignorance and inability to understand that anecdotical evidence is not factual.

You seem to enjoy attacking people who you know nothing about nor their experiences with the immigration system. Newsflash, I’ve worked with about 500 people over the past few years who have had to immigrate here. That includes single people and those with family who have had to deal with their spouses employment. A few of them include doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, and many others. So, yeah, I know a bit about the hoops they have to jump through.
Maybe stop assuming people know less than you about things and stop with the personal attacks.

If you find Canada to be run by racist, noncaring people, you might want to rethink settling here. I certainly wouldn’t move to a country that was like that.

You just did what you claim I enjoy doing "attacking people who you know nothing about nor their experiences with the immigration system". You are just literally attacking me without an idea about my experience with the immigration system and what I know and don't know. You are literally personally attacking me so I have nothing to say to respond to this kind of discussion.

 

[Coco7]

Can you please explain to me how I can be against immigration when I am an immigrant myself lol sorry but thay sounds ridiculous. Does that mean I am against myself??
You need to go back and read again what I said. I said immigrants are not utilized to their full potential. Engineers can't work as engineers and doctors can't work as doctors so no one can come here and say that they are increasing the numbet of immigrants in the middle of a pandemic because they need more talents or more doctors because the only true reason is that they need MONEY! And since us (people who have applied to citizenship) can't pay anymore money than what we are already paying, that makes us not a priority!

You said and I quote:

“The priority in the middle of a pandemic should be the people who are already in the country, it should never be about bringing more people into the country”

That is an argument that a lot of bigots use to discriminate against immigrants, I pointed out that you just started sound like those bigots in an effort to try to highlight the delays in the citizenship test.

 

[Dana.D]

You said and I quote:

“The priority in the middle of a pandemic should be the people who are already in the country, it should never be about bringing more people into the country”

That is an argument that a los of bigots use to discriminate against immigrants, I pointed out that you just started sounded like those bigots in an effort to try to highlight the delays in the citizenship test.

How does that make me sound like "those bigots". I never said I am against immigration (again I am an immigrant myself!) But there should be priorities. You don't call up people to your house while it's on fire. You put off the fire then have people over. And I definitely can't be with discrimination against immigrants because that means I am okay with people treating me with discrimination which is crazy! Who wants that!

 

[Coco7]

How does that make me sound like "those bigots". I never said I am against immigration (again I am an immigrant myself!) But there should be priorities. You don't call up people to your house while it's on fire. You put off the fire then have people over. And I definitely can't be with discrimination against immigrants because that means I am okay with people treating me with discrimination which is crazy! Who wants that!

Equating the delay on the tests with a house on fire is a little bit extreme. The delay may be frustrating for sure , but It doesn’t impact the everyday life of the majority of applicants to that extent.

 

[piotrqc]

@Dana.D ... If i were you, I would avoid childish discussions altogether and with no results.

The goal of some commentators is to make us deviate from the subject ...

To make us doubt the validity of our request, and above all to make us discouraged from using tools to which we have access, de jure, ie by power of law. It's all that matters.
Here is a reminder of the constitutional legal texts guaranteeing our rights, there is no further discussion after that:


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

Fundamental Freedoms
Marginal note: Fundamental freedoms
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

If the federal employees have themselves used and abused these rights to claim their `` right '' to use leave 699 indefinitely (While activity has resumed everywhere else, in the private sector, or among self-employed workers with taking charge of precautionary health measures), if the constitutional rights even allow to claim a `` right '' as incense and immoral as an indefinite leave on the backs of honest taxpayers (** I recall that the union of employees federals appealed to justice to counter a decision of the secretariat of the council of the treasure of Canada to change the terms of the 699 code to limit the abuse of public money).

Even if this is allowed, we have TOTALLY the right to make reasonable requests.

I suggest that we no longer pay attention to unnecessary provocations, and go ahead with our demands, with legal means.

, Piotr.

 

[AshesNdust]

You just did what you claim I enjoy doing "attacking people who you know nothing about nor their experiences with the immigration system". You are just literally attacking me without an idea about my experience with the immigration system and what I know and don't know. You are literally personally attacking me so I have nothing to say to respond to this kind of discussion.

No, I am pointing out to you that your anecdotal accounts are not facts and neither are mine. That’s not attacking you that pointing out facts based on your statements.

Then I defend against your accusations leveled at me by stating that, I indeed, have had some experience dealing with the immigration system on various levels.

If you are going to level attacks at people then be prepared for the responses.

 

[ott-613]

Well based on the chain of events, they love immigrants so much that they wanna label them as immigrants forever instead of making them citizens. The kind of toxic love...

Lets not hope that . Everyone is an immigrant at the end of the day .

... we were happy that eligibility period reduced from 4 to 3 years ... i guess this pandemic delay is just bad luck ...

We need clear visibility and plans to our files.

 

[Coco7]

@Dana.D ... If i were you, I would avoid childish discussions altogether and with no results.

So whenever someone differs from you or Danna’s point of view they are being “childish”.... what a way to support your arguments.

 

[BOYX]

Hi! Could someone advise. Do I need to renew my home country passport as it expired this month while awaiting my Canadian citizenship as I have already received my AOR?

Bruh you're so clueless. The tests are closed and have been for 10 months. This topic is what the whole thread is about. I usually am not so blunt but all you had to do was read the posts around yours.

So to answer your question, yes you very likely need to apply for a passport because you won't be getting a Canadian one anytime soon.

 

[hotshot45890]

Current government statistics on the current economic environment (Please feel free to do a google search):

• 1.3 million people were moved onto EI from CERB
• around 500 thousand are on recovery benefits including the canada recovery benefit
• Majority of these are racialized Canadians and Immigrations

While there arguments on both sides of any issues, it would have been nice if the different stakeholders and the government had an informed discussion in terms of what makes sense for Canada in terms of immigration. No one should argue that Canada doesn't need immigration, actually in the long-term with an aging population Canada's economic growth is hugely dependent on immigration, but at the same time there should be a focus on priorities especially for those who have made this country home, contributed to it and and have paid taxes.

 

[AshesNdust]

No one is saying don’t ask questions or try to get answers. Many of us merely object to the unfound slander and accusations leveled at governmental employees and some of the more inflammatory statements made at other posters.

This forum has always been a great place for people to get help and support. This thread has turned into one that pushes unsupported claims against the government and then insults people who do not agree with said statements. This is not okay.

 

[Fawny43]

Here's the link for the code 699 and what is available for the government worker's.
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/corporate/covid-19/pay-pension-benefits/taking-tracking-other-paid-leave-code-699.html

 

[piotrqc]

Here's the link for the code 699 and what is available for the government worker's.
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/corporate/covid-19/pay-pension-benefits/taking-tracking-other-paid-leave-code-699.html

The link you refer to is the one that lists the changes made by the secretariat to the Treasury Board of Canada.

The union of federal workers had already started legal proceedings to contest what you shared ... And they added other legal disputes, here is their press release dated yesterday, the most recent:

http://psacunion.ca/changes-699-leave-psac-take-further-legal-action

Changes to 699 leave: PSAC to take further legal action

PSAC is filing a second policy grievance against Treasury Board for its most recent discriminatory changes to 699 leave that will force federal workers to exhaust all other leave – including sick leave and vacation leave – before they can request “other leave with pay” for COVID-19-related reasons.
...
Without the availability of a vaccine, and with many parts of Canada experiencing a second wave of the pandemic, Treasury Board’s proposed changes are premature and do not reflect the current reality of this public health crisis and its mental health impacts on public service workers.

These are a few passages from their last press release above, you can consult it in full.

My remarks regarding this press release:

With respect for these people, (I am giving my opinion here, no need to say that I am insulting anyone, and their press releases are not sacred words or gospel words), we notice here in this press release that he union continues its commitment to vacancy code 699, and opposes reasonable adjutments instituted by the Treasury Board of Canada.

It will also be noted that the union invokes the risks associated with the pandemic.

Most of the industries in the private sector, as well as the self-employed, have returned to work, following guidelines from public health, and federal and provincial health authorities.

Under what pretext should federal employees benefit from special treatment? ... Are their lives worth more than those of private sector employees, or self-employed workers? ... Or are they more susceptible to the virus? What rational and objective argument to justify a return to work while respecting the health safety directives?

Covid is in the rise and not going away in years. We need to adapt to the new normal and put everything back to work with safety measures. In private sector, i cannot just disappear for 8 months without work because of covid. We need solutions to the extensive delays.

Something else. Taxpayers (whether citizens or not) have rights as well.

The right to have good governance and good management of public money.

One of the roles of the Treasury Board of Canada (And it fulfilled it by making the changes to the 699 code, we must salute it!), And more generally of the government is to ensure good governance and the exemplary nature of public expenses.

Paying salaries indefinitely without a clear recovery plan, even partial and with the taking of precautionary public health measures is not an example of good governance and sound management of public finances ... If the return to work is so complicated that that, even with sanitary measures, we should unfortunately proceed to layoffs in the public sector.

I have nothing against the payment of an emergency benefit for people who lose their jobs ... But it is totally irrational to continue to pay a salary (significantly higher than the emergency or unemployment benefits ) for people who refuse to return to work, even with correct health precautionary measures ... It's just incredible, how can we defend this ??

The last point of my remarks concerns the paragraph citing the vaccine. Here I am going to address people who are waiting for their citizenship test:

As you can see, the union implicitly asks for an effective vaccine ... Do you think that if the effective vaccine is found - hyppottetically - tomorrow morning! ... Do you think this will speed things up? ...NO .

The union will certainly demand a daily infection rate of zero new cases of people per day ... which means years, years, and years, can be an indefinite timeframe.


As I said before, the equation now is simple. We have nothing more to lose ... As you can see, union clings to constitutional rights, even if they know very well deep down that their demands are unreasonable and immoral, and even incensed ...

We are only asking for a recovery, even partial and gradual, with distancing and health measures, citizenship tests, or why not, a way to do them online. And at least a clear plan with dates and deadlines ... Which seems a billion times more reasonable to me than a union that requires an extension ad vitam æternam (* indefinitely) of a provision allowing them to be paid without providing work in return.

 

[mostaf]

No one is saying don’t ask questions or try to get answers. Many of us merely object to the unfound slander and accusations leveled at governmental employees and some of the more inflammatory statements made at other posters.

This forum has always been a great place for people to get help and support. This thread has turned into one that pushes unsupported claims against the government and then insults people who do not agree with said statements. This is not okay.

Hi everybody I am "new" in here posting for a while now and want first to thank and congratulate everybody on this thread on their role but I have to point this out regarding you @AshesNdust, and ppl like you here thinking you have the monopole of wisedom or savoir who you guy are to judge WHATS OK OR NOT? why are you judging people and dividing this thread in 2 camps like we in war? we all here in the same boat here STUCK and trying to figure out how to resume the test, and thats what we all looking for but I am really surprised and at the same time laughing when I see some here acting like they are IRCC staff member trying to protect they advantage or they lawyer.. YOOOO IRCC stopped the test, taking full advantage of they 899 protocole (they play they cards which is fine), kids are at "high risks" going back to school, I am at "high risk" going to work daily and you guys find a way to discourage people to play they cards and limit discouraging ppl to raise they voice? common folks I don't get it; and Piotr to Dana quote is right please avoid the UNCONSTRUCTIVE and YAPPIN talks and stay efficient, the bottom line is to resume the tests and it's fair to claim it so let's remain focus on the essential, raise our voices like the Sponsorship folks did and see you at the public demonstration in Toronto.

@piotrqc big thanks you started this thread I just want to add this "les chiens aboient la caravane passe." certains soufflent le chaud et le froid ici et c'est juste de l'hypocrisie et j'aime ton style depuis le debut tu vas vers l'essentiel et d'une maniere ou d'une ils y trouvent meme leur compte.

And the brave soldier coco to come rescue or bash me lol... but hey again we on the same boat yo what piotr want is what you wish everyday so just chill and let's be constructive life is good and having say that I apply this rule to myself no more yappin