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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

piotrqc

Hero Member
Aug 10, 2020
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451
Hello everyone.

I will be using Google translator from French, so my apologies in advance for any errors in form ... But I invite you to read fully, this is very important.
. Thank you.

Introduction:
Si vis pacem, para bellum. (Proverb in Latin, meaning: If you want peace, prepare for war).

Context:


As everyone knows, integration in Canada is not something that is easy, and has its share of difficulties ... You have to double your efforts when you are not native here to succeed, even more when you have names or first names with connotations of certain geographical origins… In short, I did not come here to complain or to recite complaints to you.
It is normal and even rewarding to fight to study, work, and advance the country that welcomes us.
It is even more normal to be enthusiastic and proud to submit your application for Canadian citizenship to fully understand your integration into Canadian society.
It is with this legitimate perspective that I directly, just a few days after fulfilling the minimum attendance requirement, submitted an application to integrate Canadian nationality. I sent the paper application envelope in 2019.
My test was scheduled and scheduled for April, I received my summons ... But canceled at the last moment for reasons everyone knows (Covid 19).
… It goes without saying that my disappointment is enormous, and that I share the frustrations, the fears and the sorrows of several people who comment in this forum.
Like everyone else who is in the same boat here, I try to inform myself in this forum, on the official website of IRCC, the official twitter, and elsewhere ... While waiting with great impatience for the treatments and tests resume… It seems that nothing more can be done for the moment…


Current Status of IRCC Citizenship Applications:

According to the official IRCC website https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugies-citoyennete/services/coronavirus-covid19/citoyennete.html, All citizenship-related events without arrest until further notice. Only the ceremonies have resumed in virtual form. Even this recovery will never equal the pace (in number) of traditional ceremonies, or even face-to-face by adopting adequate social distancing measures. In short, it's window dressing, everything is stopped.
IRCC continues to accept paper requests, but no longer processes them. The demands are piling up, so do the delays.
Check out this topic for more details on the number (The estimate of the numbers is a few months old, so it's worse now, and it's getting worse by the day)
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/210-930-citizenship-grant-applications-pending-including-42-000-awaiting-citizenship-ceremony-and-87-000-awaiting-citizenship-test-as-of-may-2020.694245/

Those who were fortunate enough to take their exams before operations were shut down are saved, and can see the end of the tunnel, because they know that virtual citizenship ceremonies are effective and ongoing, even though the pace has slowed down. numbers… On the other hand, people like me who saw their test appointment canceled at the last moment, or even worse, those who have just sent their paper request or are about to send it soon, do not see the end of the tunnel and will remain in the domain of the unknown.
The few rare indications of IRCC virtual tests remain vague and evasive (on Twitter in particular, nothing official), and also difficult to achieve (issues of the possibility of cheating candidates, which may be comprehensive and legitimate from their point of view) .
I think we should be rather pessimistic, if we want to remain realistic and not lie to ourselves: This blockage is left to last for years if we do nothing: The last letter to federal employees of IRCC dated July 31st confirms this (remote work will be prioritized, see the link here: https://www.cic.gc.ca/emp/msg/20200731-eng.asp), not to mention the fact that the union of federal employees is very powerful, and will continue to put pressure so that there is no normal resumption of activities, or even with physical distancing, as long as the Covid case is not fully resolved (so it takes years, even if we is optimistic, the time to find a vaccine, produce it, and its distribution).

Even an online pilot test program, if we assume that it will see the light of day, will not solve the problem ... If the main provinces of Canada establish deconfinement plans, we should ideally campaign for a set of solution, online testing will only be a part. They can also be combined with face-to-face tests in gymnasiums or parks or large spaces, for example, with respect for sanitary distance rules, compulsory masks, hand sanitizer, reduced number, etc. Better than nothing or fair the tests.
In short, I was content with my frustration in my corner like most of you, browsing the internet in a frenzy in search of something new, a hypothetical and improbable good news ... Until I watch the news from Radio Canada in French, last Saturday, August 08, 2020. I saw a capsule that made me decide to launch this topic here.

Awareness: Example and concrete case of the mobilization of spouses' sponsors:

Let’s start with a very popular French proverb: “The right is snatched, not given. ‘’.
Don't be fooled: Life is not a Telletubbies world where everyone is nice and everyone helps everyone and is compassionate, but a world built on power struggles, pressure, lobbying, etc. . If you keep quiet, you will be left behind, or even ignored.
Getting back to our topic: As you know, the Covid situation affects several categories of people in relation to immigration. Like people like us awaiting testing or processing, people awaiting permanent residence, others awaiting sponsorship, etc.
People who are concerned by the spousal sponsorship program, who already have extremely long deadlines outside covid, years, have seen their applications blocked, and therefore the deadlines extended even more than usual ... fact ? … They held simultaneous protests in front of several IRCC offices across the country, in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa and Edmonton.
The written press talked about it, and above all, as I explained above, the first French-language public channel made a video capsule on the subject, which is here:

The result ?
IRCC was compelled to react, and to respond to requests from Radio Canada journalists, and said this:
"In response to the protests, the IRCC said it is continuing to accept and process applications and will" find an innovative and compassionate way to reunite families, "while respecting public health guidelines. ‘’

Source is CBC, the public broadcaster in English, see here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-protest-denounces-immigration-application-delays-1.5679721

Mobilization has important effects: We must be visible, make noise, ask for our right ... Yes, right and not a favor, because we are not asking for alms or the moon: We are asking to complete our integration journey , to fully enjoy all rights (in employment among others), but also to submit to all the duties that fall to the privilege of being a Canadian citizen.
I wouldn't even talk about the fact that we paid exorbitant fees for this administrative service.


We must mobilize today before tomorrow:


Generally speaking, human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean. This is a fact that can be seen in everyday life.
By browsing the different subjects in this forum which deals with pending citizenship tests, I have often been able to make this observation: There have often been, and there will always be people who will try by all means to do you to lose hope and accept the fait accompli, or to tell you that citizenship services are not essential, and therefore not a priority. To these people we must answer that we are in our full right and that we do not ask for alms: We participate through our work, studies, and through the taxes that we pay every year to advance and shine Canada !
Don't be fooled, these people will often be, in order:
• We already had their Canadian citizenship.
• We had the chance to pass the test before the closing of this service, and quietly await their ceremony online.
• We already have a passport (original citizenship) from a developed country giving them the right to return to Canada whenever they want without a problem. Nothing to do with our '' exotic '' passports which do not give access to anything and do not give us any consular protection worthy of the name ... And which keep us in the unknown and a precarious migratory situation, even with our status as permanent residents .
• Are simply racist and do not want you to have your Canadian citizenship.

** Maximum number of characters reached, I will continue down, thank you. **
 
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piotrqc

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Aug 10, 2020
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451
( The following )

Stakes: What we have to gain:

- Clear the headache associated with renewing our Canadian permanent resident cards if they reach the end of their validity (Huge and complicated file to collect + endless renewal delays, more than a year the last time I checked on the IRCC website !!).

- Avoid new fees linked to the renewal of the permanent resident card.

- Increased rights: Access to all types of jobs without restriction.

- Right to vote: The right to be involved in the political life of the country which has become our adopted country, which is very important for our future and those of our children… Canada is a true democracy unlike many others country.

- Peace of mind and less stress: After having pledged allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen, you will be reassured because you will know deep inside yourself that unlike the permanent resident status which is not guaranteed, the citizen status is more solid: You will be AT HOME! HOME SWEET HOME !

- The covid pandemic has shown us that having consular assistance from a civilized country is important in the event of repatriation ... I followed the news carefully, especially that of a friend stuck in an African country: Canadian Embassy in this African country that I will not quote has clearly posted in its official facebook page, announcing a repatriation flight, that the people who will be prioritized in order are: Canadian citizens, and then permanent residents s 'there is room on the plane !! … Now imagine that you are stuck in a country where you are visiting (not just for a health emergency, but for any other reason), far from your children and your family here in Canada… Just imagine the stress you will have in the event repatriation !! ...



Possible risks and dangers if the status quo situation were to last a long time:

I would not talk about the possible known risks that you probably have in mind (Being in an ejection seat, that is to say the possibility of losing your status at any time, whether it is due to a name respect for minimum periods of residence, or even an error in your life which is of a criminal nature).

I am going to tell you about something that may seem unexpected to you, but which remains a very possible and imaginable risk.

As you all know, the current government of Trudeau (The Liberal Party of Canada) is a minority government, meaning there is a risk of a snap election at any time.

If you follow the news, you should also know that the Trudeau government is unfortunately involved in various high profile scandals, the most recent being the scandal of the United association, and its relations with the Trudeau family and Bill Morneau, the minister. finances …

I do not want to be pessimistic and scare you to the extreme, but I must remind you that the current framework in which we all apply for Canadian citizenship is Bill C6 adopted by the Trudeau government there is not so for a long time (the main beneficial change for us was the fact of reducing the minimum period required to be eligible for Canadian citizenship from 4 years to 3 years, but also the possibility of counting periods of half a day per day spent in temporary residence situation, student or worker or other).

In short, a quick glance in the comments of social networks will allow you to realize that the views hostile to immigration (not to say racist or xenophobic) are on the rise, it is something that is palpable and we can feel ...

Be sure that if an early election is called, and the Conservatives take advantage of it, be sure that they will not hesitate to touch the immigration law (So concretely, that will mean even more delays for you, some more years certainly with the Covid, and therefore more stress for you) ...

Everything I have said is not science fiction, it is very likely and very possible! ...


Conclusion: Are you ready to move, or would you rather wait years in the dark? What do you prefer ?? ... The choice is yours

The only way to get things done like I said is to make noise, protest, and demand solutions from IRCC to move our demands forward, and find concrete solutions to do our tests quickly.

Contacting our federal deputies may be a solution, but it is certainly not enough, it is not very visible ...

Call IRCC customer service too, but I'm sure the officers will only recite a text they have to keep you waiting indefinitely ...

I come back to the element that made me aware of the need to do something: The video of the demonstrations on Radio-Canada… Of course, we can see on the video capsule that the demonstrators were only a few dozen in a few cities, not many… But despite all this it made noise, and IRCC was forced to respond!

The conjugal sponsors were clever, and knew how to play on opinion and publicize their case ...
I understand that most of us are often afraid, or are not used to democracy (because many immigrants come from undemocratic countries, not to say dictatorial countries and remain polite) ...
To all those I ask the following question: What do you prefer? ... To wait for years in worry and uncertainty? Or act today, now, as long as the backlog of nominations does not reach astronomical numbers? …. What exactly do you want?
I would also like to tell them that Canada is a TOTALLY democratic country ... You will have no problem, inconvenience, or revenge against you if you go out and demonstrate to be entitled to the processing of your file, or the right to take an exam (that you have paid, I specify ...)

What have you got to lose? …. I would also like to add that if the demonstration (s) materialize, physical distancing will be mandatory ... But also masks. You can therefore be completely anonymous if this consoles or comforts you.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm ready to go to the Montreal office to demonstrate, even if I live two hours away by car, if enough people come to an agreement… It's important, I would travel to that!

Now I'm going to ask my questions, that's the point of this post:

What do you think of my idea? … What do you think of the manifestation of those who sponsor their spouses?


Also, a practical question: Can you find out? ... How did they manage to come together to agree on the date of their simultaneous protests. On Facebook, another social network? What more can I do than write here to move the project forward?

They organized their outing on a Saturday… Do you think that will be a good idea? ... Don't you think we have to hurry, and that it will be smart to organize this before the summer is over, and therefore the weather starts? (What may discourage some)?


Please, messages and constructive responses. All your suggestions and constructive ideas are welcome.

Please, if you want to make non-constructive comments, or to despair or try to make us accept a fait accompli, don't bother ...


Thank you everybody !

Piotr.
 
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canuck78

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I am sure CIC is examining possible ways of testing people but they need to find a way where they can guarantee that people aren’t cheating on the tests. Not as easy as you think. It took a bit of time to get started but they did start the virtual hearings. For the majority of people in Canada citizenship versus PR won’t affect their daily lives so other things are being/were prioritized.
 

duckduckgoose

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Jul 4, 2020
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Wow this is...very long but thanks for the thoughts. I think the same idea has been raised by other community members as well, assembly, emailing MPs etc. I've said this a few times, there is indeed a online petition to get online tests from the Facebook citizenship group if you're inclined. But apart from that I think its going to be tough to get people out and protestings. Maybe link the MP the online petition. But yes I did notice the family reunion people were VERY vocal even on social media.

I am sure CIC is examining possible ways of testing people but they need to find a way where they can guarantee that people aren’t cheating on the tests. Not as easy as you think. It took a bit of time to get started but they did start the virtual hearings. For the majority of people in Canada citizenship versus PR won’t affect their daily lives so other things are being/were prioritized.
I think OP has a point though, the family reunion people were actually very vocal on social media even when it seemed like processing was completely put on hold. Every tweet in the IRCC twitter page was filled with their messages. I guess they could have waited until who knows when it clearly seemed to have some result, I'm actually quite surprised people were protesting in IRCC offices.
 

duckduckgoose

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Jul 4, 2020
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FWIW I'm hearing from some sources IRCC is not trying to do online tests anymore and will wait for in-person tests? Not sure when that will even be possible.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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Wow this is...very long but thanks for the thoughts. I think the same idea has been raised by other community members as well, assembly, emailing MPs etc. I've said this a few times, there is indeed a online petition to get online tests from the Facebook citizenship group if you're inclined. But apart from that I think its going to be tough to get people out and protestings. Maybe link the MP the online petition. But yes I did notice the family reunion people were VERY vocal even on social media.



I think OP has a point though, the family reunion people were actually very vocal on social media even when it seemed like processing was completely put on hold. Every tweet in the IRCC twitter page was filled with their messages. I guess they could have waited until who knows when it clearly seemed to have some result, I'm actually quite surprised people were protesting in IRCC offices.
Yes the family reunification people contacted all the media organizations but their protests have not resulted in any changes yet so very hard to say that it has been effective. I do think CIC is currently trying to find a solution to the testing issue. It isn’t an issue that is as easy to solve as the oath ceremonies.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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FWIW I'm hearing from some sources IRCC is not trying to do online tests anymore and will wait for in-person tests? Not sure when that will even be possible.
Don’t think there is an easy solution when it comes to online testing where people can’t cheat.
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Generally speaking, human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean. This is a fact that can be seen in everyday life.
By browsing the different subjects in this forum which deals with pending citizenship tests, I have often been able to make this observation: There have often been, and there will always be people who will try by all means to do you to lose hope and accept the fait accompli, or to tell you that citizenship services are not essential, and therefore not a priority. To these people we must answer that we are in our full right and that we do not ask for alms: We participate through our work, studies, and through the taxes that we pay every year to advance and shine Canada !
Don't be fooled, these people will often be, in order:
• We already had their Canadian citizenship.
• We had the chance to pass the test before the closing of this service, and quietly await their ceremony online.
• We already have a passport (original citizenship) from a developed country giving them the right to return to Canada whenever they want without a problem. Nothing to do with our '' exotic '' passports which do not give access to anything and do not give us any consular protection worthy of the name ... And which keep us in the unknown and a precarious migratory situation, even with our status as permanent residents .
• Are simply racist and do not want you to have your Canadian citizenship.
"Generally speaking, human nature is bad, people are selfish and mean. This is a fact that can be seen in everyday life."​

While this may accurately depict your family, your friends, and others who you associate with, the world you have lived in, and it seems you are confessing, yourself as well, it does NOT accurately describe, no where near close, the vast majority of people I have shared space and time with over the course of . . . well I became an adult more than half a century ago.

Which is not to minimize let alone ignore the number of people who are bad, selfish, or mean, rather more than necessary unfortunately. So yes, there are too many. But in my experience those who are good, kind, helpful, generous, caring, compassionate, and who try to have a positive impact, way outnumber the bad apples.

Here, for example, in this forum. Contrary to what you describe. There are many forum participants who make an effort to help. To provide accurate information and some analysis which will, hopefully, help those with questions better understand the process, make better decisions for themselves, and overall better navigate their way through the system. Sometimes this can be frank. And illuminate negative risks and overt downsides. Like emphasizing the importance of waiting to apply with a good margin over the minimum presence. Which is not to disparage anyone. Which is not to reject what technically meets the requirements. It is to highlight practical risks and how to reduce those risks.

That said, your description of our "nature," as "bad," is largely beside the point and seems to be a gratuitous slam aimed at those you are addressing. Which seems an odd approach but if that is how you see things, so it goes.

Beyond that, however, I take exception with your prejudgment and disparaging of those who will disagree with the proposition that without strident activism IRCC will fail to take reasonable steps toward meeting its statutory mandate to process grant citizenship applications. I think you are wrong about this. Very wrong. You certainly have a right to advocate your view. No matter how much in error it is. And this is not to discourage others from encouraging IRCC to be more zealous and diligent about getting the grant citizenship application process moving again.

BUT I am very confident that even if there is little or no pressure, the Canadian government will be pursuing efforts to resume all aspects of grant citizenship application processing.

AND I think this is IMPORTANT because most of those with applications pending deserve to be reassured that the Canadian government will NOT forget them, will NOT unreasonably ignore their applications, but rather even if citizenship applicants do nothing to pressure the government, the government will take reasonable steps to get application processing back in gear and deal with applications for a grant of citizenship. Yes, it will take longer now. It appears that it could be quite a bit longer.

HOWEVER, there is NO NEED to WORRY. NO need to engage in pressure tactics. It is going to take awhile, but IRCC will get it done.

You seem to have thoughtfully composed your views, so despite the ad hominem slurs you aimed at those who would disagree with you, and the fact that you are wrong about the need for activism, it does not appear your motive is fear-mongering. Just to be clear, nonetheless, as important as *democratic* values are, Canada is also very much a rule-of-law country. More so than many other countries which claim to be rule-of-law countries. So, again to be clear, there is NO need to fear that the Canadian government will not reasonably proceed with the grant citizenship process. So, to advocate proactive engagement to encourage the Canadian government be more zealous and diligent, sure, that is OK, not really needed but OK. But it is NOT OK to spread fear and cause unnecessary anxiety.
 

harirajmohan

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Don’t think there is an easy solution when it comes to online testing where people can’t cheat.
People wait for 5-10-15 years coming through the system legally after earning enough points in immigration system and most of them have studied lot many books that have multiples of 55 page book and cleared their schooling and colleges.
They have been through for a decade long wait in legal system and have already studied 100+ of books bigger than discover canada.

Moreover I have not seen test failing candidates are more than 1-2% and most people study just for few days to clear the test.
This would be the easiest book they ever study for an exam. While test is easy and a person spent a decade for this juncture, i dont see a reason to cheat.

Also there are many exams we can attend from home/office and many have attended exams in college online from home(which is not even video). If we start doubting for everything then it never ends.
 
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Ch_Rizwan

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I don’t know why people keep saying online testing is difficult . Online testing is happening even in third world countries with educational institutions and other government offices and even by our neighbour.

People somehow think that they are still assisting vulnerable people.

Everything is going back to normal now and gatherings are now being allowed by most provinces. If we follow social distancing rules everything will be fine.

There is no excuse of stopping the citizenship testing now whether online or in person.
 
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canuck78

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People wait for 5-10-15 years coming through the system legally after earning enough points in immigration system and most of them have studied lot many books that have multiples of 55 page book and cleared their schooling and colleges.
They have been through for a decade long wait in legal system and have already studied 100+ of books bigger than discover canada.

Moreover I have not seen test failing candidates are more than 1-2% and most people study just for few days to clear the test.
This would be the easiest book they ever study for an exam. While test is easy and a person spent a decade for this juncture, i dont see a reason to cheat.

Also there are many exams we can attend from home/office and many have attended exams in college online from home(which is not even video). If we start doubting for everything then it never ends.
That is only the primary applicant for skilled workers. Plenty of people without even a high school degree who are applying for citizenship.
 

canuck78

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Jun 18, 2017
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I don’t know why people keep saying online testing is difficult . Online testing is happening even in third world countries with educational institutions and other government offices and even by our neighbour.

People somehow think that they are still assisting vulnerable people.

Everything is going back to normal now and gatherings are now being allowed by most provinces. If we follow social distancing rules everything will be fine.

There is no excuse of stopping the citizenship testing now whether online or in person.
There is also plenty of cheating in online testing in all the educational institutions. Some testing requires you to go to a testing centre to minimize cheating. I am sure CIC is trying to come up with a solution but granting citizenship is not a minor issue and is taken seriously so if 1-2% of people aren’t able to pass then CIC has to make sure those people don’t have the option to cheat to pass. Yes things have somewhat opened up but there shouldn’t be any large gatherings and I wouldn’t say life has returned to normal.
 
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harirajmohan

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App. Filed.......
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30-Dec-2015 ReminderEmail(PCCs, NewPassport via cse 31-Dec-2015)
Nomination.....
SK 22-Apr-2015
AOR Received.
11-Aug-2015
Med's Request
23-Dec-2015
Med's Done....
20-Jan-2016
Passport Req..
26-May-2016 (BGC In Progress 25-May-2016)
VISA ISSUED...
PP Reached Ottawa:27-May-2016, Received:10-Jun-2016
LANDED..........
PR: 09-Jul-2016, PR Card: 17-Aug-2016
That is only the primary applicant for skilled workers. Plenty of people without even a high school degree who are applying for citizenship.
Just because they have done/not done schooling doesnt mean 55 page history-geography book is so tough. In the inperson tests that happened earlier, failure is hardly 1-2% i have seen in forum talking about test failed twice.
Moreover they go through interview process to clear the same. And i dont see if anyone failed in interview stage, not heard in forum hence dont know much. And most of these ones are not in hurry to get citizenship or in dire situation to cheat.

Based on your theory, at least 20-30% should fail or at least 10% should fail but its not the case. So its just fear for some people and perception that people would cheat.

If test is most important thing in gaining citizenship then foreign born descendants should be taking test before issuing citizenship as they too would not know about canada. Its not all about this small test which determines the qualification of citizenship - its much more than whats on paper.
 
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Dani-N

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Dec 13, 2019
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First of all the purpose of citizenship test. according CIC memo, use the test to determine if you have adequate knowledge of Canada and the responsibilities and privileges of citizenship period ! the people who are talking about citizenship exam cheating please stop demonstrated your ignorance then instead to do 20 citizenship test which backward system, CIC needs to modernized and adapt the agency to 21st century . on my point of view the best solution cic need to start discover canada online class 8 to 16 hours ,one instructor 30-50 student with webcam ,it doesn't matter we are pandemic period or not ,the goal is to have adequate knowledge of Canada