CEC and a Job in Quebec

[Iwanttoimmigrate]

Hi Kushari,

I was a bit skeptical about this too. Any way can you please elaborate what you think on this? i.e. having a job in Quebec (Montreal) but approval from employer to move to their Gatineau office and move to live in Ottawa (since there already are many people living like this there - though i don't know if they were already on PR / citizenship or not) would serve as a sufficient intention.

Specifically adding the fact that gatineau being a small city vs Ottawa being more english, better schools for english speaking kids, easier availability of halaal food etc. serve as convincing arguments?

fkl,

You can submit an CEC application while you are still leaving in Quebec. Your application would be assessed and AOR would be sent also. but before you get to the medicals you should start preparing moving out of Quebec. I'm a July applicant and I'm expecting a MR by Last week of March. Presently having a BOWP helping me to look for jobs outside Quebec specifically in Ottawa.

Not sure whether you have already applied or qualified yet for BOWP but if you have it, your life would be much simpler. I would suggest that you apply for BOWP (if you existing permit is about to expire within 4 months) and then ask your employer to move you to Gatineau office and you can stay in ottawa. Alternaticvely there are cases where people have been granted BOWP even if their existing permit does not expire in 4 months.

Immigration is only interested (atleast for now) in where you leave and if that's not Quebec, you should be fine. Even if they ask questions about your employment, you can show that you are applying for local jobs in ottawa but you are not getting through with them.


All the best

 

[fkl]

fkl,

You can submit an CEC application while you are still leaving in Quebec. Your application would be assessed and AOR would be sent also. but before you get to the medicals you should start preparing moving out of Quebec. I'm a July applicant and I'm expecting a MR by Last week of March. Presently having a BOWP helping me to look for jobs outside Quebec specifically in Ottawa.

Not sure whether you have already applied or qualified yet for BOWP but if you have it, your life would be much simpler. I would suggest that you apply for BOWP (if you existing permit is about to expire within 4 months) and then ask your employer to move you to Gatineau office and you can stay in ottawa. Alternaticvely there are cases where people have been granted BOWP even if their existing permit does not expire in 4 months.

Immigration is only interested (atleast for now) in where you leave and if that's not Quebec, you should be fine. Even if they ask questions about your employment, you can show that you are applying for local jobs in ottawa but you are not getting through with them.


All the best

Thank you Iwanttoimmigrate.

Please clarify a couple things here "you should start preparing moving out of Quebec". What would be the evidence of this? I do not intend to switch employer. I still intend to work in Gatineau (in Quebec) but just a bridge away from Ottawa. I would probably submit a letter from my employer stating that they are transferring me to head office in Gatineau as soon as i am approved to work there. I can only move to a house in Ottawa, when i can start working in Gatineau and that depends upon CEC approval or bridging work permit, because my current work permit only permits me to work in Montreal.

Are you suggesting i will have to get a bridging work permit AND shift to Ottawa around CEC medical time? or you are just saying that letter of approval from employer would be enough and i can make the actual move after CEC's approval?

 

[kushari]

Thank you Iwanttoimmigrate.

Please clarify a couple things here "you should start preparing moving out of Quebec". What would be the evidence of this? I do not intend to switch employer. I still intend to work in Gatineau (in Quebec) but just a bridge away from Ottawa. I would probably submit a letter from my employer stating that they are transferring me to head office in Gatineau as soon as i am approved to work there. I can only move to a house in Ottawa, when i can start working in Gatineau and that depends upon CEC approval or bridging work permit, because my current work permit only permits me to work in Montreal.

Are you suggesting i will have to get a bridging work permit AND shift to Ottawa around CEC medical time? or you are just saying that letter of approval from employer would be enough and i can make the actual move after CEC's approval?

Basically any proof to show you are trying to leave Quebec, Some examples off the top of my head: Buying a house outside of quebec, applying to jobs outside (with current or different company). These are the most important as they show actual intent.

 

[Iwanttoimmigrate]

Thank you Iwanttoimmigrate.

Please clarify a couple things here "you should start preparing moving out of Quebec". What would be the evidence of this? I do not intend to switch employer. I still intend to work in Gatineau (in Quebec) but just a bridge away from Ottawa. I would probably submit a letter from my employer stating that they are transferring me to head office in Gatineau as soon as i am approved to work there. I can only move to a house in Ottawa, when i can start working in Gatineau and that depends upon CEC approval or bridging work permit, because my current work permit only permits me to work in Montreal.

Are you suggesting i will have to get a bridging work permit AND shift to Ottawa around CEC medical time? or you are just saying that letter of approval from employer would be enough and i can make the actual move after CEC's approval?

As Kushari put, you need to show real intentions in actions that you are really trying to move out of Quebec.

I would suggest that you should move before applying for CEC (if possible), it will be best case scenario since CIC would not know that you were staying in Quebec when you applied and they might not even ask you for proving your intentions to reside outside quebec. You can still mention a quebec company as your employer but that would not be an issue for them.

Alternatively, you can apply immediately with all the current addresses of quebec and once you move to ottawa, you can update the change of address to CIC. Chances of receiving a letter to show intent in this are more and the content in your explanation letter and practical reasons would get you through the Visa Officer's (VO) consent or approval. This would largely depend on the VO who is processing your file.

Mind you in both cases, you having a BOWP would be a +1 and showing links/intentions outside quebec are very much important, like having a job offer, job interviews in progress, planning to buy house, children education difficulties in quebec, french language issues etc.

In all this, one important detail might be a major roadblock for you which is your current closed work permit (CWP) expiration. You won't get BOWP when your CWP expiry is not within 4 months of expiration. If this is the case, it would need lot of convincing and real strong reasons from you to get an approval on your intention letter.

Finally, I would say don't waste time, apply as soon as you are eligible and ready and deal with the situation later because you will find lot of people in this forum who have been thru similar situations. In worst cases, you may have to hire a lawyer who may charge good bucks that i think it would worth it if he solves the problem for your own greater good.

Cheers,

 

[praj87]

Hello again all,

I've gotten some email asking me about how this all worked out and thought I would reply here for the benefit of all.

I really don't have anything too much of value to add that's different from what other people have written. I applied in February from Quebec with a QC address and job. I changed jobs in April and moved to BC and changed my mailing address on e-cas. In January, I received like the one other people have received from an immigration officer this email...

This refers to your application for permanent residence in Canada. Please note that your file is in process and will continue to be processed at the Case Processing Pilot-Ottawa (CPP-O) office. I am writing you this letter to express my serious concern(s) regarding your application.



As per Regulation 87.1(1), the Canadian Experience Class is prescribed as a class of persons who may become permanent residents on the basis of their experience in Canada and who intend to reside in a province other than the Province of Quebec. Although you indicated on your application form that you intend to reside in Toronto, Ontario, you currently live and work in Montreal, Quebec. I am concerned that you do not intend to live in a province other that the Province of Quebec.



Therefore I am asking you to submit any additional information and/or documentation that would allay my concern(s). You have 30 days from the date of this letter to submit the additional information and/ or documentation to the above address.

I emailed back saying I'd left my job in QC in April and had been working in BC since then and had moved temporarily to Ontario in the interim. I said I could supply pay stubs, bills et cetera with non QC address and that I'd changed my address in e-cas in May. This was apparently not needed as I got no further emails regarding my Quebec residence and had a Medical Request and Police Background Check request come through later that month.

I'm still waiting on a decision but have paid the RPRF and given the Bio-Data so things look promising (knock on wood! ;D).

I'd say it's good to go ahead and apply because you never know when the rules will change again or what the future of the CEC program is. But do have plans to move, I think they'd catch on if you were just gaming the system.

Best of luck to all!!

J

 

[kushari]

As Kushari put, you need to show real intentions in actions that you are really trying to move out of Quebec.

I would suggest that you should move before applying for CEC (if possible), it will be best case scenario since CIC would not know that you were staying in Quebec when you applied and they might not even ask you for proving your intentions to reside outside quebec. You can still mention a quebec company as your employer but that would not be an issue for them.

Alternatively, you can apply immediately with all the current addresses of quebec and once you move to ottawa, you can update the change of address to CIC. Chances of receiving a letter to show intent in this are more and the content in your explanation letter and practical reasons would get you through the Visa Officer's (VO) consent or approval. This would largely depend on the VO who is processing your file.

Mind you in both cases, you having a BOWP would be a +1 and showing links/intentions outside quebec are very much important, like having a job offer, job interviews in progress, planning to buy house, children education difficulties in quebec, french language issues etc.

In all this, one important detail might be a major roadblock for you which is your current closed work permit (CWP) expiration. You won't get BOWP when your CWP expiry is not within 4 months of expiration. If this is the case, it would need lot of convincing and real strong reasons from you to get an approval on your intention letter.

Finally, I would say don't waste time, apply as soon as you are eligible and ready and deal with the situation later because you will find lot of people in this forum who have been thru similar situations. In worst cases, you may have to hire a lawyer who may charge good bucks that i think it would worth it if he solves the problem for your own greater good.

Cheers,

I'd like to say that I took this approach, I moved out of Quebec right when I was eligible for CEC and still had to prove I intend on residing out of Quebec as the officer noted I graduated from Montreal, and gained my 1 year work experience there, which would make me "established in Quebec". It was annoying, but luckily I got a job a few weeks before their deadline of proving that I intend on staying in Ontario.

 

[fkl]

I'd like to say that I took this approach, I moved out of Quebec right when I was eligible for CEC and still had to prove I intend on residing out of Quebec as the officer noted I graduated from Montreal, and gained my 1 year work experience there, which would make me "established in Quebec". It was annoying, but luckily I got a job a few weeks before their deadline of proving that I intend on staying in Ontario.

I am a bit unclear on this part. So making sure you understand my situation. It is a bit early for me to say that, since i would be eligible for CEC in about 8+ months. But i have reasons to consider this thing right now because:

1) If i can't go the CEC route, then possibly i have to consider some quebec based thing (CSQ) which means i have to go towards learning french right now which i want to avoid if i can.

2) My current work permit would expire some where around Feb 2016 and my employer is willing to go for LMO and extension sooner than latter, which would mean around Feb 2015. So i cannot apply for BOWP before say Nov. 2015 (4 months before expiry) where as i intend to apply for CEC much early i.e. around Feb 2015.

I cannot move to Ottawa without being legally eligible to work in Gatineau (for which either i need a BOWP or a renewed LMO + work permit). I can only ask my employer for a letter stating their head office is in Gatineau and i can work there once i am legally entitled to. Even my current manager works in Gatineau and lives in Ottawa (though he is either a PR or a citizen) so from employer's perspective that would not be an issue.

Among other arguments that i can put is my children's education i.e. they have english background and it is not very easy to integrate with french.

So it kind of appear like a chicken and egg problem. Moving to Ottawa is best to be on safe side with CEC but i cannot move without renewed work permit or BOWP (which requires AOR after applying for CEC AND close to work permit expiry).

I would also like to state that i work in a pretty specialized area for which jobs are not very common. That is why my employer was so keen to hire me in the first place and i would likely stick with them. So NOT showing any attempts to say get jobs in Ottawa or else but rather sticking to employer in Gatineau would go against me???

Can i put one more argument of NO interest in french, not having taken admission to any school for learning french as a supporter of CEC. Because CIC knows that i need french in order to apply for any Quebec based PR. Otherwise at max i can get another renewed work permit which would go max up to 4 years.

Does that sound like a convincing story? Or to be considered for CEC safely, my only option is to apply for jobs outside i.e. I cannot apply to jobs in Ottawa as of now because i am not eligible to work there.

Thank you very much for all your suggestions. They were really helpful

 

[Iwanttoimmigrate]

I am a bit unclear on this part. So making sure you understand my situation. It is a bit early for me to say that, since i would be eligible for CEC in about 8+ months. But i have reasons to consider this thing right now because:

1) If i can't go the CEC route, then possibly i have to consider some quebec based thing (CSQ) which means i have to go towards learning french right now which i want to avoid if i can.

2) My current work permit would expire some where around Feb 2016 and my employer is willing to go for LMO and extension sooner than latter, which would mean around Feb 2015. So i cannot apply for BOWP before say Nov. 2015 (4 months before expiry) where as i intend to apply for CEC much early i.e. around Feb 2015.

I cannot move to Ottawa without being legally eligible to work in Gatineau (for which either i need a BOWP or a renewed LMO + work permit). I can only ask my employer for a letter stating their head office is in Gatineau and i can work there once i am legally entitled to. Even my current manager works in Gatineau and lives in Ottawa (though he is either a PR or a citizen) so from employer's perspective that would not be an issue.

Among other arguments that i can put is my children's education i.e. they have english background and it is not very easy to integrate with french.

So it kind of appear like a chicken and egg problem. Moving to Ottawa is best to be on safe side with CEC but i cannot move without renewed work permit or BOWP (which requires AOR after applying for CEC AND close to work permit expiry).

Fkl,

Here's what I would do I were in your place.

1. You still have 8+ Months to be eligible... why not try attending french classes? not the government sponsored one but a private french classes who can get you up to speed in 3-6 months in french. I know you have mentioned that you don't want to invest time in learning french but I think it will help your course towards residency.
2. Quebec as well has a Quebec experience program which I think has a similar timeline as CEC (not sure though). BY the end of this year or whenever you become eligible, you will have to options to go with, either Quebec or federal. And since you have your work permit good for another 2 years , you dont have option for BOWP.
3. And you might be aware that once you have the PR, you will be able to move anywhere in Canada.
4. I don't how old your children are, but if they are ready to go school age then also you can send them to french school. Children learn and adapt fast, at least when they are young. And having a french skill isn't a bad idea at all. I don't what other options do you have but wait for others to suggest.

I'm suggesting this because your final goal is to become a permanent resident of Canada or a Canadian citizen. So be ready for whatever path that takes you there and you never know with immigration changes, 8+ months is a big time in immigration.

Cheers,
All the best

 

[fkl]

Fkl,

Here's what I would do I were in your place.

1. You still have 8+ Months to be eligible... why not try attending french classes? not the government sponsored one but a private french classes who can get you up to speed in 3-6 months in french. I know you have mentioned that you don't want to invest time in learning french but I think it will help your course towards residency.
2. Quebec as well has a Quebec experience program which I think has a similar timeline as CEC (not sure though). BY the end of this year or whenever you become eligible, you will have to options to go with, either Quebec or federal. And since you have your work permit good for another 2 years , you dont have option for BOWP.
3. And you might be aware that once you have the PR, you will be able to move anywhere in Canada.
4. I don't how old your children are, but if they are ready to go school age then also you can send them to french school. Children learn and adapt fast, at least when they are young. And having a french skill isn't a bad idea at all. I don't what other options do you have but wait for others to suggest.

I'm suggesting this because your final goal is to become a permanent resident of Canada or a Canadian citizen. So be ready for whatever path that takes you there and you never know with immigration changes, 8+ months is a big time in immigration.

Cheers,
All the best

s

Thank you. Quebec sure does have a CSQ based Quebec selected worker program that is very fast. It is as fast (if not faster than CEC). However, to get through that you first need to get CSQ, which requires having passed french exam with ADVANCED INTERMEDIATE level.

I have a colleague with exactly my background (he just came 10 months earlier, started 4-5 months late with french) and is going the french route.

I agree with the options part i.e. having more options to consider for PR, but argument is still the same, my family is yet to arrive (they will come in summer). We got visas together, but i wanted to settle things out for them.

Right now - i have a lot to do after work. Looking for housing for family suiting to our specific situation, schools for my kids (7.5, 3 and 1.8), preparing for driver's exchange (because i have been driving for years, but experience from my home is not counted here, so i need to practice well and pass written and road test) among a list of things.

Joining a french session of 4 hours and 4 days a week which is like from 6 to 10 pm in Montreal where we would be in west island (because of better English community and shcools) and commuting to work for more than an hour each side every day is a tough call. I might do it, but may be as a last resort.

A small factor in reluctance might be that i didn't come to Canada because it was my life long dream or any thing. It was mainly the job, which looked good and seemed to have better prospects for my family and career so i took it. Learning french forcefully up to that level kind of offends me (though i might end up going that route) with the cost (time and energy) that i might have to pay to get through.

Moreover, if i go the french route, going through the course, they taking french exam, then getting CSQ and then finally applying for PR would take longer over all as compared to apply for PR through CEC in like 8-9 months without actually having to do any language at all.

Kids might adjust thought it would be a bit difficult for the elder one since he is fluent in English having been taught at school and home although it was not his first language. So i wasn't sure if french is worth enough importance in our life as much as it seems to be requiring efforts at the moment.

Thanks for your input. Really appreciate that.

 

[iamelle]

^ I just have a question. If and when you get a PR, do you see yourself living in Quebec permanently?

 

[fkl]

^ I just have a question. If and when you get a PR, do you see yourself living in Quebec permanently?

No. I am not the kind who thinks or does that. If i am applying for PR saying i would move to Ottawa with family, I would do so exactly. That is why i wasn't very sure of showing "applying to jobs in Ottawa to show intent of moving out" and otherwise, because unless circumstances change a lot, i wasn't seeing myself applying for another job.

Motivation for CEC only exists because of having an employer which has a head office in Gatineau and MOST of people there actually live in Ottawa. Otherwise, i won't even have considered this route.

If your question was about whether one can live without french or not, then it depends on a lot of things.

In general any job in Quebec states "being bilingual is an asset even in IT" where there is practically no need. At my current work place, we have US based customers and company requires every one to speak English because of nature of business. So it is fine with respect to work.

You can choose to live in a relatively more english area such as West Island in Montreal where every one can and often does speak English.

Kids is a matter of lesser worry. They pretty quickly adopt it, if they were young. If a bit older (say 7-8 years old), may be sending to an english school where they learn french along is a good idea (assuming they can already speak english well - which is the case with me).

In the longer run, you should know french (how proficient is a different question) and learning along is not a big deal, it is fun.

The painful part is to be forced to learn with in less than a year of initial settlement if you intend to apply for Quebec Selected PNP and learn to a pretty higher level including reading called "Advanced intermediate"

 

[iamelle]

^ My sentiments exactly We are on the same boat. I am in IT. While everyone here at work respects that I don't speak and understand French quite well, it's still different. I am willing to learn and learning a new language is always beneficial. But forcing myself to learn Advanced intermediate in so little a time is impossible for me. I have a teenage child and he's finding it so hard to cope up with French class and received a failing mark while he passed all the English subjects in flying colors. He's trying his best to keep up but unable to given the limited amount of time. Even if we transfer to another province we will all study French as it is the second language here. But again, I cannot force our family to have an advanced knowledge right there and then. It takes time, effort and patience, but it can be worked on. Just not right now.

 

[fkl]

^ My sentiments exactly We are on the same boat. I am in IT. While everyone here at work respects that I don't speak and understand French quite well, it's still different. I am willing to learn and learning a new language is always beneficial. But forcing myself to learn Advanced intermediate in so little a time is impossible for me. I have a teenage child and he's finding it so hard to cope up with French class and received a failing mark while he passed all the English subjects in flying colors. He's trying his best to keep up but unable to given the limited amount of time. Even if we transfer to another province we will all study French as it is the second language here. But again, I cannot force our family to have an advanced knowledge right there and then. It takes time, effort and patience, but it can be worked on. Just not right now.

Glad to hear that. I feel for the problem your child is facing and am worried about mine to be in the same boat. In terms of immigration only, the french requirements are for the principal applicant i.e. you. At max if they call for an interview, it would be good if spouse can at least perform very basic communication in french.

 

[helo_canada]

Hello ... Lets say my frnd receive PR (from federal) while working in Montreal.
What is the next step, he has to land in Montreal or Toronto.
What about SIN? Is he can apply SIN in Montreal after landing in Toronto?
What about Health Card? Is he can apply Health Card for himself and family in Montreal after landing in Toronto?
Seniors please advise.

 

[fkl]

Hello ... Lets say my frnd receive PR (from federal) while working in Montreal.
What is the next step, he has to land in Montreal or Toronto.
What about SIN? Is he can apply SIN in Montreal after landing in Toronto?
What about Health Card? Is he can apply Health Card for himself and family in Montreal after landing in Toronto?
Seniors please advise.

Landing has nothing to do with SIN or health card application. You can do those latter by going to respective offices where you are supposed to.

Update: E.g. for SIN card you go to any office of Service Canada and for health card (in quebec) you would got to RAMQ office.