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Candid thoughts on "red flags"

Kaibigan

Champion Member
Dec 27, 2020
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I have had to think lately about this issue. I have never really seen my wife's PR application as one beset by what are regularly called "red flags" on this forum. Previous marriages and even moreso, sponsorships are often seen in that light. I have seen more threads that I can remember offering the opinion that one can expect a spousal PR application to go smoothly in the absence of red flags.

In our case, I sponsored my previous wife here as a permanent resident in 2003. She came to Canada as my employee in 2002. We married in 2004 and were together until 2019. We had a child together, born in 2004. Despite being aware that, according to what one sees here, my past could raise a red flag or two, I really thought it a non-issue, until today.

What has me thinking about it now relates to the fact that as well as representing wife wife for her PR application, I am also rep for her sister, who married a Canadian at the same time. Our application was submitted last November. Theirs was submitted 3 weeks later. The sister's husband has been married twice before, but this is his first sponsorship. The sister has 3 kids who will not accompany, but will be the subject of a later application. They went through the medical exams. So, I thought, if anything, their application might be seen as a bit more complex than ours.

Last week, the sister received notice that her eligibility check had been completed. It commenced on May 24, same as my wife. One day later, the sister received her pre-arrival services letter. My wife has not seen that yet and her eligibility remains in process. My wife's background check was completed June 27. Her sister's completed last week as well, so now she is all done. I expect to see her PPR soon.

So my concern is that, notwithstanding the sister's application being submitted 3 weeks later then my wife's, and both being in the same office, my wife is not out of the woods and no end in sight. So, should I read anything into that? Could it be that a dreaded red flag has reared its ugly head?

I recognize that the timeline difference between the 2 applications is not vast and maybe I am wrong being concerned that an application filed 3 weeks after my wife's has pulled into the lead. Also, if my previous sponsorship has raised a red flag, why did it not at the sponsorship approval stage? I also remain quite concerned about my wife's 3 failed TRV applications since January 2020. Has that raised a red flag and poisoned the well?

A further item is age gap. The sister and husband have an age gap, but has not sunk their application. Ours is greater, but it's not like I am have married some innocent young thing. She's around 40, university-educated and worked in the Phils and abroad.

Thoughts anyone? Am I fretting for no good reason, or should I expect that we'll be shot down at any moment?
 

scylla

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I have had to think lately about this issue. I have never really seen my wife's PR application as one beset by what are regularly called "red flags" on this forum. Previous marriages and even moreso, sponsorships are often seen in that light. I have seen more threads that I can remember offering the opinion that one can expect a spousal PR application to go smoothly in the absence of red flags.

In our case, I sponsored my previous wife here as a permanent resident in 2003. She came to Canada as my employee in 2002. We married in 2004 and were together until 2019. We had a child together, born in 2004. Despite being aware that, according to what one sees here, my past could raise a red flag or two, I really thought it a non-issue, until today.

What has me thinking about it now relates to the fact that as well as representing wife wife for her PR application, I am also rep for her sister, who married a Canadian at the same time. Our application was submitted last November. Theirs was submitted 3 weeks later. The sister's husband has been married twice before, but this is his first sponsorship. The sister has 3 kids who will not accompany, but will be the subject of a later application. They went through the medical exams. So, I thought, if anything, their application might be seen as a bit more complex than ours.

Last week, the sister received notice that her eligibility check had been completed. It commenced on May 24, same as my wife. One day later, the sister received her pre-arrival services letter. My wife has not seen that yet and her eligibility remains in process. My wife's background check was completed June 27. Her sister's completed last week as well, so now she is all done. I expect to see her PPR soon.

So my concern is that, notwithstanding the sister's application being submitted 3 weeks later then my wife's, and both being in the same office, my wife is not out of the woods and no end in sight. So, should I read anything into that? Could it be that a dreaded red flag has reared its ugly head?

I recognize that the timeline difference between the 2 applications is not vast and maybe I am wrong being concerned that an application filed 3 weeks after my wife's has pulled into the lead. Also, if my previous sponsorship has raised a red flag, why did it not at the sponsorship approval stage? I also remain quite concerned about my wife's 3 failed TRV applications since January 2020. Has that raised a red flag and poisoned the well?

A further item is age gap. The sister and husband have an age gap, but has not sunk their application. Ours is greater, but it's not like I am have married some innocent young thing. She's around 40, university-educated and worked in the Phils and abroad.

Thoughts anyone? Am I fretting for no good reason, or should I expect that we'll be shot down at any moment?
You haven't really given us your wife's full profile or details about your relationship (e.g. how much time you have spent together, etc.). So for me it's a bit difficult to comment on your application overall.

I do think that multiple TRV refusals can sometimes be regarded as a bit of a red flag. I'm normally a fan of stopping at two refusals. Sometimes IRCC can negatively perceive multiple TRV refusals when combined with other concerns.

IMO your previous sponsorship won't raise any flags at all. You were in a relationship long term with that individual and it's clear that relationship was genuine.

As you said, processing times can vary for absolutely no reason at all. So you may be worrying for absolutely no reason.
 
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Kaibigan

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Dec 27, 2020
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You haven't really given us your wife's full profile or details about your relationship (e.g. how much time you have spent together, etc.). So for me it's a bit difficult to comment on your application overall.

I do think that multiple TRV refusals can sometimes be regarded as a bit of a red flag. I'm normally a fan of stopping at two refusals. Sometimes IRCC can negatively perceive multiple TRV refusals when combined with other concerns.

IMO your previous sponsorship won't raise any flags at all. You were in a relationship long term with that individual and it's clear that relationship was genuine.

As you said, processing times can vary for absolutely no reason at all. So you may be worrying for absolutely no reason.
Thanks scylla.

We met in person in the Phils in November 2019 and had a month together. I expected to go back in maybe March of 2020 and spend more time. We applied for TRV in January 2020, asking for a visit in summer 2020. Covid came along in February 2020 and kept me out of the Phils until it reopened for tourists on Feb. 10, 2022. Covid also would have prevented her coming here on a TRV in summer 2020, even had it been granted.

I arrived back in Phils on Feb. 18, 2022 and stayed for 3 months. While there, in March 2022, applied for TRV for summer visit in summer 2022. Denied. We were married in April. After my 3 months there in spring 2022, I went back again in November. We went to Dubai as soon as I got there in order to get her Dubai pcc and filed her PR application in late November 2022, as soon as we got the pcc. On that trip, I stayed for 4 months. So, a total of about 8 months together since our first day together in late 2019.

By comparison, my wife's sister met her husband online in July 2020. They could not meet in person until the Phils reopened in February 2022. He arrived there in March and stayed for one month. They married within a few weeks of that first face-to-face meeting. He returned for a month starting early August 2022. He had another 1-month visit in spring 2023. So, they have had a total of 3 months together.

I gave our third TRV application (made in March 2023) anxious consideration, having failed twice already. I took the chance because when we applied, my wife's PR application had been in progress for 4 months, we had AOR, SA, medical exam done and passed, required PCCs submitted, etc. So I thought we would be seen as more serious candidates. Also, as before, we were pressing for a summer visit. The motive there is that my principal residence is on a large, oceanfront acreage. In summer, it's a paradise. The kind of place many would be delighted to visit. I could probably get at least $5,000 week for it on Airbnb in summer. In winter, it has much less appeal. It's somewhat remote (one of its main charms in summer) and weather can be crappy. I have to be there in summer. That's when I do maintenance, tend orchard and gardens, etc. In winter, I might just as well be in the Phils and be warm. With the TRV applications, I even sent pics of the place in summer, and under snow in winter, to show why summer was important. A wasted effort.

So, we lost summer 2020, 2021, 2022 and now 2023. I am happy to winter again in the Phils, but I am anxious to have this PR thing decided, one way or another. It's causing a lot of anxiety. I asked my wife what she would want if approved for PR in fall/winter. Would she prefer to delay coming to Canada, for me to come there, and spend the winter in her country? She wants to come here as soon as they will let her, poor weather or no. My guess is she won't want to spend winter at my principal residence. That's okay. I have a nice condo in Victoria. But we can stay wherever she chooses.

I was prepared to go to the Phils next month and stay there until next spring, waiting there for her PR decision (and relying on the 13-month processing time posted on the IRCC site, although I am aware of some getting here from Phils in 10 months). But now, my paranoia is fuelled by the apparent early success of her sister's application, wondering why not us. So, the waiting has become much harder.
 

Xilikon

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Apr 26, 2018
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Ours is similar to yours and to add (met twice in Taiwan in July and October 2019, supposed to meet again in April 2020 but the pandemic separated us until the end of February 2022 and then we married as soon as we met again, meeting further in the august 2022, December 2022 and May 2023), we also have my wife's daughter who will accompany her coming to Canada. I also "almost sponsored" a previous Korean wife before I decided to withdraw the application (it went so far as to get AOR and later OWP the day before I withdrew). However, we never tried to apply for TRV as we knew it would be dubious from the Philippines and to aim for spousal sponsorship straight.

I think in the eyes of IRCC, it might be slightly more complicated but not a suspicious application because you have known her for long enough and have spent enough time together. It might be some different reason, and one of them is probably because she was an OFW in Dubai (my wife was an OFW in Taiwan, so we also had to get and provide Taiwan PCC). You didn't mention if her sister was a OFW too and if she isn't, it might explain why it is quicker as there is less background/security check to do.

At least you might be lucky to get a decision soon because I'm staying in the wrong province which has doubled the processing time thanks to our Quebec government.
 
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Kaibigan

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Ours is similar to yours and to add (met twice in Taiwan in July and October 2019, supposed to meet again in April 2020 but the pandemic separated us until the end of February 2022 and then we married as soon as we met again, meeting further in the august 2022, December 2022 and May 2023), we also have my wife's daughter who will accompany her coming to Canada. I also "almost sponsored" a previous Korean wife before I decided to withdraw the application (it went so far as to get AOR and later OWP the day before I withdrew). However, we never tried to apply for TRV as we knew it would be dubious from the Philippines and to aim for spousal sponsorship straight.

I think in the eyes of IRCC, it might be slightly more complicated but not a suspicious application because you have known her for long enough and have spent enough time together. It might be some different reason, and one of them is probably because she was an OFW in Dubai (my wife was an OFW in Taiwan, so we also had to get and provide Taiwan PCC). You didn't mention if her sister was a OFW too and if she isn't, it might explain why it is quicker as there is less background/security check to do.

At least you might be lucky to get a decision soon because I'm staying in the wrong province which has doubled the processing time thanks to our Quebec government.
Thank you for your helpful reply.

My wife was an OFW for 3 years in UAE and then worked in the Phils for a few years, then in Hong Kong for about 6 years. Her sister was an OFW, but not for as long - about 2 years in Kuwait and a bit less in Hong Kong. Having 3 kids kept her in the Phils for longer. My wife never had children.

You have my sympathy for the Quebec situation. That is really unconscionable. Would you like to come to BC for awhile? Maybe I can help out :)
 

Xilikon

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Thank you for your helpful reply.

My wife was an OFW for 3 years in UAE and then worked in the Phils for a few years, then in Hong Kong for about 6 years. Her sister was an OFW, but not for as long - about 2 years in Kuwait and a bit less in Hong Kong. Having 3 kids kept her in the Phils for longer. My wife never had children.

You have my sympathy for the Quebec situation. That is really unconscionable. Would you like to come to BC for awhile? Maybe I can help out :)
No worries, we are eternally optimistic and we hope the discussions among Quebec government officials will make some changes to the caps soon.
 
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armoured

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Thoughts anyone? Am I fretting for no good reason, or should I expect that we'll be shot down at any moment?
I think you're fretting for no good reason and overthinking it. There could be any number of reasons in the background of each of you that you've mentioned (I don't think a list would add much, would just be subjective) - or it could simply be a different officer who's more overworked or junior or whatever.

Minor differences in security checks can result in different timelines, too. Even the sister having multiple children makes it a different type of app, in ways that are not clearcut.

Three weeks is not a big enough difference to draw conclusions.
 
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Kaibigan

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Dec 27, 2020
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I think you're fretting for no good reason and overthinking it. There could be any number of reasons in the background of each of you that you've mentioned (I don't think a list would add much, would just be subjective) - or it could simply be a different officer who's more overworked or junior or whatever.

Minor differences in security checks can result in different timelines, too. Even the sister having multiple children makes it a different type of app, in ways that are not clearcut.

Three weeks is not a big enough difference to draw conclusions.
A big thanks to you and @scylla armoured. I need a little handholding at this point. I want so much for my wife to have at least one summer here. If we get that, I can accept any fate. You are both seasoned veterans here and your opinions are always solid and carry much weight. Of course, I much appreciate the supportive words of @Xilikon. But he has not your great depth of experience and knowledge that has served so many here so well. That does not come quickly or easily. But, to his considerable credit, like you and scylla, he demonstrates the kind of helping attitude and objective reasoning that is what I appreciate about this forum.
 

ERCAN

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Jan 25, 2023
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I'll add my two cents here. As per your story, I see no real "red-flags". Your first marriage isn't a concern at all as pointed out above.
And it seems that the relationship history isn't a determining factor either. In my case we have a two-digit number of years of well documented, easily traceable common-law relationship and yet, I'm stuck with eligibility not even started while being November applicant as you are.
On the other hand I see people just a year of remote relationship being allowed in at fast-track mode...
 
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Kaibigan

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I'll add my two cents here. As per your story, I see no real "red-flags". Your first marriage isn't a concern at all as pointed out above.
And it seems that the relationship history isn't a determining factor either. In my case we have a two-digit number of years of well documented, easily traceable common-law relationship and yet, I'm stuck with eligibility not even started while being November applicant as you are.
On the other hand I see people just a year of remote relationship being allowed in at fast-track mode...
Thank you ERCAN. Interesting to me that you are a November 2022 applicant with eligibility not yet started. My wife's has been in progress for 4 months. But you were able to get TRV for your wife, it would appear. That would help a lot.
 
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ERCAN

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Jan 25, 2023
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Thank you ERCAN. Interesting to me that you are a November 2022 applicant with eligibility not yet started. My wife's has been in progress for 4 months. But you were able to get TRV for your wife, it would appear. That would help a lot.
Well, my wife has a TRV since long time ago (over 5 years). This TRV was for dependent only and yes, it was granted almost instantly. As you say this helps a lot, but we didn't try entering Canada yet since... well, life is complicated :) With all that Quebec nonsense while we theoretically can come to Canada, but the wait is indeterminate thus it's impossible to do any planning and risk assessment... Among many other questions, what if PR will not be granted? This would be quite frustrating to leave especially if we would spend a lot of time in Canada until they show any condescension and at least do our eligibility. I would be happy to get AIP and every step completed and then just wait for Quebec... but we are stuck with no updates since April... To add insult to injury, I`ve been waiting for GCMS notes for well over two months instead of stipulated 30 days; I want to see if there is any preliminary assessment or concerns in the file.

Anyway, sorry, I think I`m hijacking your thread with my problems :)
 
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Kaibigan

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Dec 27, 2020
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No need to apologize. I appreciate you sharing your frustrations with this process. Maybe it's the "misery loves company" idea. I don't feel like we are the only ones getting beat up in the process.
 
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armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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filed her PR application in late November 2022 ...
So, we lost summer 2020, 2021, 2022 and now 2023. I am happy to winter again in the Phils, but I am anxious to have this PR thing decided, one way or another. It's causing a lot of anxiety.
I think you are overly anxious because your calculation in your mind does not match the basics of the spousal app. You applied in 2022. Your 'lost summers' calc is ... your internal accounting. Nothing wrong with that but hardly part of the process.

Side note: as I recall you had received your GCMS and there were some mismatches - have you done anything about that?

It's my belief (guess really) that short, brief factual corrections might tend to get it bumped up. I wouldn't overdo it but worth a try. If doing so, you could add info regarding the four months you spent together (or whatever it is) after your applied in November (assuming I understood the timing there) - just to emphasize the relationship aspect and perhaps help that officer with the bit of info they need/want to close the file.

Other than that, I would caution that overall, there is a lot more variability file to file than most seem to recognize - and that's for files that are superficially almost identical, whereas in practice even the superficially similar are often a lot more different than most recognize.
 
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Kaibigan

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Thanks @armoured.

You recall correctly about the GCMS notes. At the time, you did not see anything worrisome and thought maybe just some musings of a junior officer. You did suggest at the time maybe sending in some further info and, as well, you said maybe just let it go and all should be well in the fullness of time. I adopted the latter course. Maybe time to rethink that.
 

armoured

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Thanks @armoured.

You recall correctly about the GCMS notes. At the time, you did not see anything worrisome and thought maybe just some musings of a junior officer. You did suggest at the time maybe sending in some further info and, as well, you said maybe just let it go and all should be well in the fullness of time. I adopted the latter course. Maybe time to rethink that.
It probably would be the case that doesn't outright need corrected, but I'm reconsidering given passage of time; with the additional info that you can show that you spent four additional months or so together after sending in application, I now think that's a little something you can add for a kicker.

I also believe that end-of-year/last quarter flurry of approvals as pressure to clear the desks is a real thing (but have to avoid any student visa crunch times). Having supportive info land on the desk at the right time can't hurt, and early October is way better than August for timing.

Of course entirely possible it will all come along in its own time without this, so who knows.
 
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