Can I Fly to Canada with green card and non-Canadian passport when my PR card has expired?

[Wacky1.nash]

I am a Canadian PR and US Lawful Permanent Resident. I currently live in the US.

My PR card is expiring in Aug 2023 but I am sure I have maintained my Residency Obligation. I have travelled many times to Canada by land in the past few months and and been allowed entry and CBSA confirmed I met my RO.

I want to travel by Air to Canada in Oct 2023 to attend my Canadian citizenship oath ceremony.

I know that as an LPR, green card plus non-Canadian passport is accepted to board a commercial plane to Canada.

Source - https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1053

I also know that as a PR one must present one-self as a PR to CBSA when at immigration, and despite an expired PR card they will let you enter canada provided you meet Residency Obligations.

Considering the above, does anyone see any issues with me flying to Canada given my expired Canadian PR card?

 

[canuck78]

I am a Canadian PR and US Lawful Permanent Resident. I currently live in the US.

My PR card is expiring in Aug 2023 but I am sure I have maintained my Residency Obligation. I have travelled many times to Canada by land in the past few months and and been allowed entry and CBSA confirmed I met my RO.

I want to travel by Air to Canada in Oct 2023 to attend my Canadian citizenship oath ceremony.

I know that as an LPR, green card plus non-Canadian passport is accepted to board a commercial plane to Canada.

Source - https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1053

I also know that as a PR one must present one-self as a PR to CBSA when at immigration, and despite an expired PR card they will let you enter canada provided you meet Residency Obligations.

Considering the above, does anyone see any issues with me flying to Canada given my expired Canadian PR card?

Shouldn’t be a problem but would suggest that you arrive early for your flight and have this information bookmarked on you phone because many may not be familiar with the change and so you may be denied at check-in and have to speak to supervisor, they may have to confirm with Canada, etc. Would also have a return ticket booked which is reassuring from airlines because they know that if denied entry (not saying you will be denied entry) they will not lose money flying you home. Assume you know that you will be compliant with your RO in October and have done your own calculations. It can actually be quite challenging to meet the green card requirements and then meet your RO requirements especially if not living in a border region.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

Shouldn’t be a problem but would suggest that you arrive early for your flight and have this information bookmarked on you phone because many may not be familiar with the change and so you may be denied at check-in and have to speak to supervisor, they may have to confirm with Canada, etc. Would also have a return ticket booked which is reassuring from airlines because they know that if denied entry (not saying you will be denied entry) they will not lose money flying you home. Assume you know that you will be compliant with your RO in October and have done your own calculations. It can actually be quite challenging to meet the green card requirements and then meet your RO requirements especially if not living in a border region.

Thanks, yes I am sure of meeting my RO. It has only been about 17 months since I became a US LPR and lived almost all of the previous 4 years in Canada.

I am worried about getting into an extended discussion about it with the airline. If they ask me whether I am a Canadian PR and I answer “yes”, would that lead them denying me boarding?

 

[Ponga]

I am a Canadian PR and US Lawful Permanent Resident. I currently live in the US.

My PR card is expiring in Aug 2023 but I am sure I have maintained my Residency Obligation. I have travelled many times to Canada by land in the past few months and and been allowed entry and CBSA confirmed I met my RO.

I want to travel by Air to Canada in Oct 2023 to attend my Canadian citizenship oath ceremony.

I know that as an LPR, green card plus non-Canadian passport is accepted to board a commercial plane to Canada.

Source - https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1053

I also know that as a PR one must present one-self as a PR to CBSA when at immigration, and despite an expired PR card they will let you enter canada provided you meet Residency Obligations.

Considering the above, does anyone see any issues with me flying to Canada given my expired Canadian PR card?

Actually...a PR cannot be refused entry into Canada even if they have NOT met the R.O., but could very well be issued a 44(1) report by CBSA leading to possible revocation of their PR status.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

Actually...a PR cannot be refused entry into Canada even if they have NOT met the R.O., but could very well be issued a 44(1) report by CBSA leading to possible revocation of their PR status.

Thankyou. I am aware of this.

My question is NOT about CBSA granting me entry. It is about whether I would have any issues boarding a plane.

 

[canuck78]

Thankyou. I am aware of this.

My question is NOT about CBSA granting me entry. It is about whether I would have any issues boarding a plane.

Impossible for us to anticipate it is really up to the airline staff. The airline system will recognize you as a PR so there is no point trying not to mention that you are a PR. As previously suggested I would arrive at the airport with plenty of time so if there are any problems the check-in agents can have the time to confer with superiors and review the change in policy if they are unaware of it.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

Impossible for us to anticipate it is really up to the airline staff. The airline system will recognize you as a PR so there is no point trying not to mention that you are a PR. As previously suggested I would arrive at the airport with plenty of time so if there are any problems the check-in agents can have the time to confer with superiors and review the change in policy if they are unaware of it.

Oh I wasn’t aware that the airline would be able to identify me as a Canadian PR through their system. Could you share a resource where this is confirmed?

I ask because reading previous comments on Canadavisa the consensus was that the airline did NOT have access to this information, so what you are saying directly conflicts that.

I will make sure I will go to the airport early. What I am worried about is verification of the new policy itself. It is clear than LPRs who are not Canadian PRs can board a plane to Canada. But what isn’t clear is would that change when the person is ALSO a Canadian PR. Would being a Canadian PR remove the previlige the LPR grants you?

 

[canuck78]

Oh I wasn’t aware that the airline would be able to identify me as a Canadian PR through their system. Could you share a resource where this is confirmed?

I ask because reading previous comments on Canadavisa the consensus was that the airline did NOT have access to this information, so what you are saying directly conflicts that.

I will make sure I will go to the airport early. What I am worried about is verification of the new policy itself. It is clear than LPRs who are not Canadian PRs can board a plane to Canada. But what isn’t clear is would that change when the person is ALSO a Canadian PR. Would being a Canadian PR remove the previlige the LPR grants you?

Of course they do. Your information is run through the Canadian system to identify if you can board the plane and what visas are required to board a plane to Canada and for a pre-departure security screening. You can Google the proof required. In Canada your status in Canada will override your status in the US unless a US citizen.

What proof did you find that an airline has no access to your status. As a PR if you don’t have a PR card the Arline will deny you boarding without a PRTD without advising the airline that you are a PR. If you attempted to fly with just your home country passport without a PR card or PRTD you would be denied boarding. There are some errors in the system especially if you received PR decades ago and have not returned to Canada since then. That primarily has to do with old databases not being automated 100% accurately. These days even stamped visas mean very little because countries can go into the database and cancel them electronically which would override the stamp.

 

[steaky]

Of course they do. Your information is run through the Canadian system to identify if you can board the plane and what visas are required to board a plane to Canada and for a pre-departure security screening. You can Google the proof required. In Canada your status in Canada will override your status in the US unless a US citizen.

What proof did you find that an airline has no access to your status. As a PR if you don’t have a PR card the Arline will deny you boarding without a PRTD without advising the airline that you are a PR. If you attempted to fly with just your home country passport without a PR card or PRTD you would be denied boarding. There are some errors in the system especially if you received PR decades ago and have not returned to Canada since then. That primarily has to do with old databases not being automated 100% accurately. These days even stamped visas mean very little because countries can go into the database and cancel them electronically which would override the stamp.

Except that the OP as an LPR, green card plus non-Canadian passport is accepted to board a commercial plane to Canada.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

What proof did you find that an airline has no access to your status.

I have no proof of that, but I also don't have any proof that the airline CAN see my immigration status (PR) just by entering information from my passport. All I have is hearsay. You are saying they can, but a few in the past (on this forum and on reddit) have said they cannot. I googled and was unable to find a source for either stance, so I requested one from you, someone who presented a stance.

As a PR if you don’t have a PR card the Arline will deny you boarding without a PRTD without advising the airline that you are a PR. If you attempted to fly with just your home country passport without a PR card or PRTD you would be denied boarding.

Isn't that because every nationality other than US citizens (and LPRs) require an ETA or a visa to enter Canada? If you don't present a PR card or PRTD, you have to present a visa/ ETA, which you cannot get as a PR. Hence this is not necessarily proof that the airline is able to see your immigration status.

I have heard plenty of anecdotes of US citizens who are also Canadian PRs who been allowed to board planes to Canada despite having an expired PR card. I have never heard of one being denied boarding.

There could be four possibilities:

1. The airline CAN see the PR status. They allow boarding because validity of PR card and Canadian immigration status is irrelevant given the passenger's citizenship/ LPR status.

2. The airline CAN see the PR status. They historically allow boarding for US citizens who are also PRs in error. The law actually requires valid Canadian PR card/ PRTD for ALL PRs even if they are US citizens or LPRs, but they are just so habituated to waiving through American citizens (or the risk is too low) they don't check. An LPR with an Indian passport though will invite higher scrutiny, and can be denied boarding due for not having a valid PR card.

3. The airline canNOT see the PR status. They allow boarding based on US passport/ LPR because validity of PR card and Canadian immigration status is irrelevant given the passenger's citizenship/ LPR status.

4. The airline canNOT see the PR status. They allow boarding in error. The law actually requires valid Canadian PR card/ PRTD for ALL PRs even if they are US citizens or LPRs. The airline missed checking for it because they are unaware of passenger's status in Canada.

My gutt tells me that reality is possibility no. 3 above. But truly I have found no conclusive proof for any of them.

One strong indication to me that airlines do not have access to immigration status of passengers is the fact that document requirements are lower at land border where CBSA directly allows entry (they certainly have info of all PRs and Citizens, maybe all other visas too). But the airline requires more documentation...

 

[Wacky1.nash]

@dpenabill may I request your input on this thread?

 

[Ponga]

2. The airline CAN see the PR status. They historically allow boarding for US citizens who are also PRs in error. The law actually requires valid Canadian PR card/ PRTD for ALL PRs even if they are US citizens or LPRs, but they are just so habituated to waiving through American citizens (or the risk is too low) they don't check. An LPR with an Indian passport though will invite higher scrutiny, and can be denied boarding due for not having a valid PR card.

What law are you referring to? AFAIK, there is no such law, only conflicting information found below.

This is probably why the language from IRCC is passive, when stating that "you may not be allowed to board your flight" flight to Canada without a valid PR Card or PRTD. If it truly was a law, the word 'may' would be replaced with `will', right?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5529-applying-permanent-resident-travel-document.html


Canada’s entry rules
Permanent residents (PR) of Canada must carry and show their valid permanent resident card (PR card) or permanent resident travel document (PRTD) when boarding a flight to Canada, or travelling to Canada on any other commercial carrier.
If you do not carry your PR card or PRTD, you may not be able to board your flight, train, bus or boat to Canada.
It is your responsibility to make sure your PR card is still valid when you return from travel outside Canada and to apply for a new PR card before your current card expires.

 

[Wacky1.nash]

What law are you referring to? AFAIK, there is no such law, only conflicting information found below.

I could not find a clear cut law that says this. I was saying in the context of that possibility, they interpret the law that way...

 

[Wacky1.nash]

This is probably why the language from IRCC is passive, when stating that "you may not be allowed to board your flight" flight to Canada without a valid PR Card or PRTD. If it truly was a law, the word 'may' would be replaced with `will', right?

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5529-applying-permanent-resident-travel-document.html

Canada’s entry rules
Permanent residents (PR) of Canada must carry and show their valid permanent resident card (PR card) or permanent resident travel document (PRTD) when boarding a flight to Canada, or travelling to Canada on any other commercial carrier.
If you do not carry your PR card or PRTD, you may not be able to board your flight, train, bus or boat to Canada.
It is your responsibility to make sure your PR card is still valid when you return from travel outside Canada and to apply for a new PR card before your current card expires.

Good catch. I hadn't noticed that before!

The "may" may precisely be because the PR Card and PRTD is not required for US Citizens and LPRs.

 

[Ponga]

Good catch. I hadn't noticed that before!

The "may" may precisely be because the PR Card and PRTD is not required for US Citizens and LPRs.

I concur, although I am not familiar with LPRs, only U.S. citizens traveling on a valid passport.