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status of child in canada born to illegal or person as visitor

keesio

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btw - I apologize for hijacking this thread. Tax obligations for overseas Americans is a topic that riles me up and I can't help myself (I've spent way too much time and too much money (in accountant fees) on keeping compliant with US tax laws for many many years). I promise to shut up about this now in this thread :)
 

keesio

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eileenf said:
I agree Keesio. The FATCA issues have also been framed very successfully as closing tax cheat loopholes for high roller US residents' tax havens, Swiss banks, etc. It's not well known that it applies to every foreign resident and all their legitimate banking in their home country, grandchildren's college accounts are treated like Cayman Island tax dodges and saddled with filing requirements clearly intended for corporate lawyers.

So here again we get back to the issue at hand; when politicians crack down on loophole-exploiting bigwigs, a lot of non-bigwigs get hurt too.

When we talk about birth tourism, it gives further fuel to the fire that all immigrants (and most especially the far more vulnerable refugees) are scammers or loophole exploiters who don't care about Canada and don't contribute to the common good of the country.
yes, perfect example... and perfect way to get the thread back on track (after I derailed it :) )!
 

marcus66502

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Dec 18, 2013
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As has been correctly noted, the US and Canada are the only two countries in the world today that grant birthright citizenship (i.e. citizenship just by being born in the country). I have looked into this matter out of curiosity and found out that no other country grants birthright citizenship, except in very special circumstances.

Most western countries have adopted some UN charter on what's called "right to a nationality", which means that every person on the globe should have at least one nationality (i.e. citizenship) and that countries should work to minimize the number of people without citizenship, or "stateless persons", as they're called. Under this convention, in any western country other than US or Canada, the only way to get citizenship just by birth on the country's soil is if you don't inherit any of your parents' citizenships at birth. That is, if you would end up being "stateless" at birth, then and only then you get citizenship in the country in which you were born. Otherwise, no.

As for eliminating birthright citizenship in the US and Canada, there are difficulties. It's much harder to remove birthright citizenship in the US than in Canada because in the US it's provided by the Constitution so this would require an amendment to the Constitution. It's much harder to amend the US Constitution than to change a simple US law. Just to give you an idea how difficult it is, an amendment to the US Constitution requires passage in BOTH chambers of Congress (the lower House of Representatives and the Senate) by two-thirds majority vote. IF it survives this, then it goes to all the individual state legislatures for approval, and it has to be approved by three-quarters of the states (i.e. 38 states or more). Needless to say, this is a tall order.

In Canada, it's a different story. All they would need to remove birthright citizenship is to pass another citizenship law, like the one they just passed. That is not the problem though. The real problem is implementation of the new code of citizenship, once it's passed. Right now, a Canadian birth certificate issued by any province is adequate proof of citizenship but with birthright citizenship gone, the provinces would have to modify their birth certificates to indicate whether the newborn is a citizen at birth (by verifying the status of the parents). The problem is that the federal Government of Canada cannot bring all the provinces together on board to implement this change. I read an internal paper released last year by the federal government, which considered the possibility of removing birthright citizenship and it talked about this as being the problem: you cannot rely on the provinces to willingly change their birth certificate format to accomodate the new code. In fact, I just read last week that two of the provinces, Ontario and British Columbia, after having got a hold of the exact document I just referred to sent their strong objections to Ottawa over the proposed removal of birthright citizenship. And if you can't get the provinces to support you in this, it becomes very costly.

In terms of what happens to a family where the child is a Canadian citizen at birth and the parents are without status, the answer is Nothing that wouldn't have happened before the child was born. Parents will not get any legal status of any form and if they are illegal they are still deportable, same as before. This being said, there is nothing in any Canadian law that says a child citizen has to stay in Canada. If illegal parents decide to pack up and go home, they're free to take the child with them. Contrary to common mythology, the citizen child is not "property of the Government of Canada." But the child is a Canadian citizen, in the sense that if he wanted to take advantage of all the benefits of citizenship he would be able to (including the right to stay in Canada, to be schooled in Canada, the right to a Canadian passport, the right to sponsor his parents for permanent residence when he turns 18, etc. etc. etc.).

Also if parents decide to stay in Canada illegally to care for the child, they themselves are not eligible for any financial assistance from the government. However, the citizen child will be eligible for aid programs and since the parents are the legal guardians of the child, the government's money for the child goes into their hands. I used to see this all the time when I lived in the US. Illegal parents don't get money directly but indirectly they do because the government cannot deny benefits to a child when the child is a citizen, even when the child's money would go to the hands of parents who are illegal.
 

b52shot

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Canada and the US are not the only countries that give citizenship by birth:

Here is the full list of the best countries to give birth when seeking birth tourism options, excluding countries where a ban on the practice is currently underway.
1. Argentina
2. Belize
3. Bolivia
4. Brazil
5. Canada
6. Costa Rica
7. Dominica
8. Ecuador
9. El Salvador
10. Fiji
11. Grenada
12. Guatemala
13. Guyana
14. Honduras
15. Jamaica
16. Mexico
17. Nicaragua
18. Pakistan
19. Panama
20. Paraguay
21. Peru
22. St. Kitts and Nevis
23. St. Lucia
24. St. Vincent and the Grenadines
25. Trinidad and Tobago
26. Tuvalu
27. United States
28. Uruguay
29. Venezuela

Source:
nomadcapitalist.com/2014/10/10/birth-tourism-countries-that-give-citizenship-by-birth/
 

Chilled

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Jul 23, 2015
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B52shot, its pretty obvious he meant the only 2 DEVELOPED countries in the world that still had it. :eek:
 

screech339

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marcus66502 said:
As has been correctly noted, the US and Canada are the only two countries in the world today that grant birthright citizenship (i.e. citizenship just by being born in the country). I have looked into this matter out of curiosity and found out that no other country grants birthright citizenship, except in very special circumstances.

Most western countries have adopted some UN charter on what's called "right to a nationality", which means that every person on the globe should have at least one nationality (i.e. citizenship) and that countries should work to minimize the number of people without citizenship, or "stateless persons", as they're called. Under this convention, in any western country other than US or Canada, the only way to get citizenship just by birth on the country's soil is if you don't inherit any of your parents' citizenships at birth. That is, if you would end up being "stateless" at birth, then and only then you get citizenship in the country in which you were born. Otherwise, no.

As for eliminating birthright citizenship in the US and Canada, there are difficulties. It's much harder to remove birthright citizenship in the US than in Canada because in the US it's provided by the Constitution so this would require an amendment to the Constitution. It's much harder to amend the US Constitution than to change a simple US law. Just to give you an idea how difficult it is, an amendment to the US Constitution requires passage in BOTH chambers of Congress (the lower House of Representatives and the Senate) by two-thirds majority vote. IF it survives this, then it goes to all the individual state legislatures for approval, and it has to be approved by three-quarters of the states (i.e. 38 states or more). Needless to say, this is a tall order.

In Canada, it's a different story. All they would need to remove birthright citizenship is to pass another citizenship law, like the one they just passed. That is not the problem though. The real problem is implementation of the new code of citizenship, once it's passed. Right now, a Canadian birth certificate issued by any province is adequate proof of citizenship but with birthright citizenship gone, the provinces would have to modify their birth certificates to indicate whether the newborn is a citizen at birth (by verifying the status of the parents). The problem is that the federal Government of Canada cannot bring all the provinces together on board to implement this change. I read an internal paper released last year by the federal government, which considered the possibility of removing birthright citizenship and it talked about this as being the problem: you cannot rely on the provinces to willingly change their birth certificate format to accomodate the new code. In fact, I just read last week that two of the provinces, Ontario and British Columbia, after having got a hold of the exact document I just referred to sent their strong objections to Ottawa over the proposed removal of birthright citizenship. And if you can't get the provinces to support you in this, it becomes very costly.

In terms of what happens to a family where the child is a Canadian citizen at birth and the parents are without status, the answer is Nothing that wouldn't have happened before the child was born. Parents will not get any legal status of any form and if they are illegal they are still deportable, same as before. This being said, there is nothing in any Canadian law that says a child citizen has to stay in Canada. If illegal parents decide to pack up and go home, they're free to take the child with them. Contrary to common mythology, the citizen child is not "property of the Government of Canada." But the child is a Canadian citizen, in the sense that if he wanted to take advantage of all the benefits of citizenship he would be able to (including the right to stay in Canada, to be schooled in Canada, the right to a Canadian passport, the right to sponsor his parents for permanent residence when he turns 18, etc. etc. etc.).

Also if parents decide to stay in Canada illegally to care for the child, they themselves are not eligible for any financial assistance from the government. However, the citizen child will be eligible for aid programs and since the parents are the legal guardians of the child, the government's money for the child goes into their hands. I used to see this all the time when I lived in the US. Illegal parents don't get money directly but indirectly they do because the government cannot deny benefits to a child when the child is a citizen, even when the child's money would go to the hands of parents who are illegal.
Actually the Fed government doesnt need the province input to remove birthright citizenship. Once birthright is removed, provincial birth certificates is useless for proof of citizenship. Everyone would have to acquire a Canadian citizenship certificate as only proof of citizenship or introduce a new Canadian Nationality ID card similar to the old canadian citizenship certificate card with photo ID.
 

Msafiri

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marcus66502 said:
....In Canada, it's a different story. All they would need to remove birthright citizenship is to pass another citizenship law, like the one they just passed.
Much like the UK did. Prior to Jan 1, 1983 birth in the UK conferred British Citizenship. The British Nationality Act (1981) changed this so anyone born in the UK after Jan 1, 1983 is not automatically a citizen. One of your parents had to have 'settled status' so be a UK PR or a citizen - where the parent was the father he had to be married to the mother!!! The BNA was amended in 2006 to remove gender bias and resolve statelessness. There have also been amendments to limit transmission of citizenship to one generation for those UK citizens born outside the UK (and not where the parent is in crown service) to their own children born outside the UK. If for example you apply for a UK passport and your birth is after enactment of the BNA you submit proof of your parent's immigration status at the time of birth. Typically this is either their passport or birth certificate in itself showing birth e.g in the UK prior to Jan 1, 1983. Logistically this is a pain depending on how many generations you have to go back.

In principle its easier to have 'citizenship' status on a birth certificate but actually all birth certificates are is just a record of an event. Imagine the bureaucratic mess as described above if the vital statistics office had to figure out the new born's citizenship and they have to trace down the relevant ancestry? Who would pay for this? How long would it take? Who would be liable for errors? How do you verify the authenticity of the provided documents? Ultimately the courts and legislation (read parliament) where the constitution is not clear cut clarify the citizenship status as the case may be.
 

screech339

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Msafiri said:
Much like the UK did. Prior to Jan 1, 1983 birth in the UK conferred British Citizenship. The British Nationality Act (1981) changed this so anyone born in the UK after Jan 1, 1983 is not automatically a citizen. One of your parents had to have 'settled status' so be a UK PR or a citizen - where the parent was the father he had to be married to the mother!!! The BNA was amended in 2006 to remove gender bias and resolve statelessness. There have also been amendments to limit transmission of citizenship to one generation for those UK citizens born outside the UK (and not where the parent is in crown service) to their own children born outside the UK. If for example you apply for a UK passport and your birth is after enactment of the BNA you submit proof of your parent's immigration status at the time of birth. Typically this is either their passport or birth certificate in itself showing birth e.g in the UK prior to Jan 1, 1983. Logistically this is a pain depending on how many generations you have ot go back.

In principle its easier to have 'citizenship' status on a birth certificate but actually all birth certificates are is just a record of an event. Imagine the bureaucratic mess as described above if the vital statistics office had to figure out the new born's citizenship and they have to trace down the relevant ancestry? Who would pay for this? How long would it take? Who would be liable for errors? How do you verify the authenticity of the provided documents? Ultimately the courts and legislation (read parliament) where the constitution is not clear cut clarify the citizenship status as the case may be.
As mentioned above by Msafiri, birth certificates basically records an event. Nothing more. This would remove a lot of possible headache such as issuing a citizenship to a child of diplomatic parents by mistake. You would have to prove your citizenship by applying for citizenship card and not relying on birth certificates alone. Also remove birth tourism all together too.
 

irfan346

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Jan 26, 2011
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Hello,

for a Canadian child with parents with no PR or citizenship..can the parents apply for child benefits if they are residing as students before the 18 months residency condition?
 

frege

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irfan346 said:
Hello,

for a Canadian child with parents with no PR or citizenship..can the parents apply for child benefits if they are residing as students before the 18 months residency condition?
Here are the eligibility criteria for the new Canada Child Benefit. The rules may be different for provincial programs.
To get the CCB, you must meet all of the following conditions:

You must live with the child, and the child must be under 18 years of age.
You must be the person primarily responsible for the care and upbringing of the child.

Note
If a child does not live with you all the time, see Do you share custody of a child?

You must be a resident of Canada for tax purposes. We consider you to be a resident of Canada when you establish sufficient residential ties in Canada. For more information, see Income Tax Folio S5-F1-C1, Determining an Individual's Residence Status.
You or your spouse or common-law partner must be:
a Canadian citizen;
a permanent resident (as defined in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act);
a protected person (as defined in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act); or
a temporary resident (as defined in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act) who has lived in Canada throughout the previous 18 months, and who has a valid permit in the 19th month other than one that states "does not confer status" or "does not confer temporary resident status." If this is your situation, do not apply before the 19th month.
an Indian within the meaning of the Indian Act.
 

canuck_in_uk

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irfan346 said:
Hello,

for a Canadian child with parents with no PR or citizenship..can the parents apply for child benefits if they are residing as students before the 18 months residency condition?
The child being Canadian does not exempt you from the 18 month residency requirement. You must wait.
 

Qasimkhan

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Jul 23, 2016
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Hello!!

just wanted to ask, has the rule / law for a child born in Canada to obtain citizenship has changed or not? If not ! Then if parents are only happy with the child citizenship, and are not interested themselves . Does the child gets it or is it a difficult and long procedure ?
 

screech339

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Qasimkhan said:
Hello!!

just wanted to ask, has the rule / law for a child born in Canada to obtain citizenship has changed or not? If not ! Then if parents are only happy with the child citizenship, and are not interested themselves . Does the child gets it or is it a difficult and long procedure ?
The child is automatically Canadian when born in Canada regardless of the status of parents or whether they are happy or not.

The child will get a provincial birth certificate which will be proof of citizenship.
 

Qasimkhan

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Jul 23, 2016
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Hey !

What if the parents just are visiting during the final months of pregnancy for a week . Is the pregnant woman allowed to enter or leave without any objection or can they stop you before entering into Canada? My friend has planned for this trip for a year and now they cannot cancel it ... But his wife will be around 8 months and 10 days pregnant
.. They are visiting for 10 days .. They have done all the bookings and everything ..now he is tensed that they will be stopped from entering is there a entering problem or there will be no issue if they have medical certificate..
 

Qasimkhan

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Jul 23, 2016
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Or is it better not to go? To avoid the drama at the airport, mental stress aswell as let go of the financial loss.