Worst case scenario entering Canada pls advice!!

[Sternchen30890]

hallo!
I read a lot of posts the past couple of days.
Me and my husband are still PR, but do not meet the residency requirements. We are from a visa exempt Country.

I have a few questions and I would appreciate your help:

- Do we need a travel document to go back to Canada?

- if we enter Canada and they let us in without reporting us, we have to stay for 2 years and then we can renew out PR status, right?

- Can our son (canadian citizen) go to school during those 2 years?
- is it possible to drive a car in Canada without a canadian drivers licence (we wont get one since our cards are not valid any more) for 2 years?
- can we just use our Alberta Health cards? Do they know we have been away from Canada since 2009?

- if we do get reported and the airport, what would be the worst case szenario for us as a family?

- someone wrote it takes about a year to appeal in front of a judge, could we establish a home and jobs during that year?
- We do have health care related reasons to go back to Germany back then because our son had medical problems. Back in Canada we thought we could get better help in Germany for those. Maybe there would be a chance to convice them to let us keep our PR status on humanitarian grounds.

- we are planing to to give up jobs and housing here in Germany, just not sure if we could take that risk.

Any suggestions?
thanks in advance!!!!

 

[scylla]

No - you don't need a travel document.
Yes - stay until you meet the PR residency obligation and then apply to renew your cards
Yes - your son can go to school.
No - you can't drive a car in Canada without a Canadian license for 2 years. I believe the maximum is 90 days. Hopefully someone else can confirm or you can do some further research.
You'll need to reestablish residency before you can use your health cards because you have been away for so long. Check their web site, the wait is likely three months. Get insurance to cover you for emergencies during the waiting time.
Worst case scenario is that you'll be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation as you enter Canada, will see a judge in 30 days, and that judge will revoke your PR status and you'll be told to leave Canada.
I believe you'll see a judge in 30 days (it doesn't take a year).

 

[Sternchen30890]

No - you don't need a travel document.
Yes - stay until you meet the PR residency obligation and then apply to renew your cards
Yes - your son can go to school.
No - you can't drive a car in Canada without a Canadian license for 2 years. I believe the maximum is 90 days. Hopefully someone else can confirm or you can do some further research.
You'll need to reestablish residency before you can use your health cards because you have been away for so long. Check their web site, the wait is likely three months. Get insurance to cover you for emergencies during the waiting time.
Worst case scenario is that you'll be reported for failing to meet the residency obligation as you enter Canada, will see a judge in 30 days, and that judge will revoke your PR status and you'll be told to leave Canada.
I believe you'll see a judge in 30 days (it doesn't take a year).

Thanks for your quick reply!
So we cannot drive a car for 2! years in Canada if we dont have a valid PR card? That could be a big problem, its not easy in Canada without a vehicle.
I thought in Alberta you get your health care coverage right away? Or once you have found a place to live? We all have an Alberta Health card.

 

[scylla]

Thanks for your quick reply!
So we cannot drive a car for 2! years in Canada if we dont have a valid PR card? That could be a big problem, its not easy in Canada without a vehicle.
I thought in Alberta you get your health care coverage right away? Or once you have found a place to live? We all have an Alberta Health card.

I can't answer your drivers license questions. Check the provincial web site. I think you may be able to apply for a drivers license without a PR card.

Yes - you get Alberta heath care as soon as you land when landing for the first time. However I believe the rules may be different if you have left Canada for a significant period of time and are now returning. You should confirm through the Alberta health care site.

 

[Leon]

I believe that AB health will cover anybody who is moving from overseas as well but you may want to check with them before you start using your cards again.

Do you have expired drivers licenses from AB? You should still try to get a license with an expired PR card.

 

[sdam12345]

Hello,

I am a national of Norway and we landed in Canada back in 2009, stayed 2 weeks, left and have not been back since. I was employed for an international aid organization overseas during this time. Now i would like to return, but unsure what to do and the risks involved. If we were to appeal we would not win as we don't have a probable cause.....

Norwegian citizens do not require a visa to enter Canada so what are the chances of being stopped at the order and being questioned about the PR status? How will the agent even know?

Our PR cards expire August 2014. We obtained our SIN cards but not the health cards. Really don't wont to lose our status.....any advise or suggestions would be highly appreciated.....

Thanks in advance

 

[Msafiri]

1. TD not required - don't apply you will only bring attention of your residence breach to CIC.

2. If you enter without being reported and can get to 730 days then your PR status back in good standing.

3. Your son can go to school - check the school board of the area you will be moving to it will have what they require.

4. New residents can drive with their non Alberta DL for 90 days. You may have an issue as you may be deemed to be not 'new' residents. AB has a graduated DL system (GDL). Depending on what country DL you hold you could exchange on reciprocity. Expect a hit on the insurance though as you won't have Canadian driving experience. You should carry proof of your driving and insurance record to help you get credit on your premiums and GDL status.

5. AB health cards have no expiry date (nor a photo). I don't know if AB Health freeze the card if its not used for x days but only way to check it is to go see a doctor..go to any walk in clinic and they will want to swipe your card for billing purposes. If they are inactive fill out the forms at a registry with proof of address and immigration status. As you will be re-entering from outside Canada cover starts immediately you apply and are eligible. The 3 month wait is for those out of province.

6. If you get reported you have 30 days to appeal. The appeal takes 12-18 months to be listed before the Immigration and Refugee Board (it will be heard in Calgary where CIC resource is stretched). You get your day in court and have to present reasons with proof why you you should keep your PR. IMHO you would need to show the medical treatment was not available in Canada to have a chance of success. If judge sides with you you keep PR if he/she doesn't you lose PR. Your report becomes a departure order and you get 30 days to leave. After 30 days the departure order becomes a deportation order.

7. Either party with a loss in 6 above can appeal to the Federal Court with the courts permission. This appeal must be based on a point of law e.g. the IRB did not review your son's medical notes. Unless a party to the appeal is grossly incompetent or careless its hard to mess up on a point of law so FC appeals are hard to come by.

8. You already risked your PR status by staying out of Canada. You can't just wish PR to be retained without some risk. If you want to mitigate the risk then don't sell stuff before you return. Once in Canada then get a Realtor or relative back in Germany to deal with this. If you don't trust anyone then one of you goes back and finalizes the deal. Worst case scenario the spouse in Canada sponsors the one that went back. Sorry you can't have Canadian Immigration fit around your life choices...you have to fit your life around it or forget about PR.

 

[Sternchen30890]

1. TD not required - don't apply you will only bring attention of your residence breach to CIC.

2. If you enter without being reported and can get to 730 days then your PR status back in good standing.

3. Your son can go to school - check the school board of the area you will be moving to it will have what they require.

4. New residents can drive with their non Alberta DL for 90 days. You may have an issue as you may be deemed to be not 'new' residents. AB has a graduated DL system (GDL). Depending on what country DL you hold you could exchange on reciprocity. Expect a hit on the insurance though as you won't have Canadian driving experience. You should carry proof of your driving and insurance record to help you get credit on your premiums and GDL status.

5. AB health cards have no expiry date (nor a photo). I don't know if AB Health freeze the card if its not used for x days but only way to check it is to go see a doctor..go to any walk in clinic and they will want to swipe your card for billing purposes. If they are inactive fill out the forms at a registry with proof of address and immigration status. As you will be re-entering from outside Canada cover starts immediately you apply and are eligible. The 3 month wait is for those out of province.

6. If you get reported you have 30 days to appeal. The appeal takes 12-18 months to be listed before the Immigration and Refugee Board (it will be heard in Calgary where CIC resource is stretched). You get your day in court and have to present reasons with proof why you you should keep your PR. IMHO you would need to show the medical treatment was not available in Canada to have a chance of success. If judge sides with you you keep PR if he/she doesn't you lose PR. Your report becomes a departure order and you get 30 days to leave. After 30 days the departure order becomes a deportation order.

7. Either party with a loss in 6 above can appeal to the Federal Court with the courts permission. This appeal must be based on a point of law e.g. the IRB did not review your son's medical notes. Unless a party to the appeal is grossly incompetent or careless its hard to mess up on a point of law so FC appeals are hard to come by.

8. You already risked your PR status by staying out of Canada. You can't just wish PR to be retained without some risk. If you want to mitigate the risk then don't sell stuff before you return. Once in Canada then get a Realtor or relative back in Germany to deal with this. If you don't trust anyone then one of you goes back and finalizes the deal. Worst case scenario the spouse in Canada sponsors the one that went back. Sorry you can't have Canadian Immigration fit around your life choices...you have to fit your life around it or forget about PR.

Hello, thanks for your answer!
I have one more question:

Lets say they report us at the point of entry for not meeting the residency requirements. We appeal within 60 days. During the time the appeal gets listed for hearing , we establish a home and jobs, our son goes to school.
Will that help us in front of the court to keep our PR? Would it make a difference? Can we even work during the waiting time?
Get an immigration lawyer in Canada to help us and give us advice?

Thanks to everybody for help!!!

 

[Msafiri]

Hello, thanks for your answer!
I have one more question:

Lets say they report us at the point of entry for not meeting the residency requirements. We appeal within 60 days. During the time the appeal gets listed for hearing , we establish a home and jobs, our son goes to school.
Will that help us in front of the court to keep our PR? Would it make a difference? Can we even work during the waiting time?
Get an immigration lawyer in Canada to help us and give us advice?

Thanks to everybody for help!!!

It definitely helps with the 'we are now established in Canada and have made it our home' angle but the Residence Obligation and H&C approach is really for the 5 year residence review period prior to the relevant inspection in your case the entry date at the airport. Else everyone who breached the RO could use the argument that they will now follow the IRPA akin to getting a speeding ticket and saying don't prosecute me I will no longer speed.

Your PR rights for employment, health care and other benefits for PRs (excluding immigration) continue until a formal lose of PR. Get a lawyer if you can afford one. Make sure he/she is in good standing with their professional body e.g. Ontario Bar and has a record of success with residency obligation appeals.

 

[qwe123]

Hello Sternchen30890,
Could you please let me know how you proceeded with getting a drivers license? I'm in the same boat. I have appealed against the "Residency Obligation" and is working in Canada. Now, I want to get the Drivers License with the expired PR card and the receipt of Appeal notice for Residency Obligation. Kindly help.

Regards

 

[Sternchen30890]

Hello Sternchen30890,
Could you please let me know how you proceeded with getting a drivers license? I'm in the same boat. I have appealed against the "Residency Obligation" and is working in Canada. Now, I want to get the Drivers License with the expired PR card and the receipt of Appeal notice for Residency Obligation. Kindly help.

Regards

Hello sorry we didnt try it this way. Too many risks. We applied from scratch underFSW2014

 

[Eyasan]

Hello,

I have somewhat similar case and would highly appreciate an advice.

We landed in Canada back mid of Nov'2009, stayed 2 months, left and have not been back since. Obviously we have not met the Residency obligation and according to the many posts I read about the expected status of my family's PR, it looks like we are going to lose it sooooo sorry for that

Nevertheless, before our PR expires soon next month, we would like to make one final visit to Canada and we only wish to be able to stay in for around 2 to 3 months at the maximum.

My questions are as follows:

1) What kind of questions would I expect the immigration officer to ask us at the airport?
2) Would the officer under any circumstances deny us entry?
3) If we get reported, would such step by the officer prevent us from staying the targeted period of time (i.e. 2-3 months)?

Thank you,
Eyasan

 

[Leon]

1) How long were you outside Canada, what were you doing etc.

2) No, if you have a valid PR card or otherwise can prove you are a PR, they can not deny you entry. They can report you for not meeting the RO or offer you to renounce your PR status and enter as a visitor.

3) If you get reported, you must appeal within 30 days of being allowed to enter. If you do not appeal, you will at some point lose your PR and be asked to leave. As far as I know, you can stay at least until that happens which should be more than 2-3 months.