Was my mothers PR status revoked

[divineintellect02]

Sorry if this is a duplicate post (I had tried to edit my previous posts and then it said waiting for admin approval or whatever)

Hi Everyone.

I recently was looking through some old papers and found my mothers (as well as her parents) original immigrant landing papers (it looked like it was made on carbon paper) and the page is a light pink colour.

In 1974 my mother and her family immigrated to Canada and in 1982 they left just before my mum turned 16 years old.

My mother told me that she wanted to stay and her parents changed the ticket so that they left before she turned 16 so she couldn't stay.

She always thought that her PR would have been long gone since she hasn't been in the country for so long but she doesn't understand that PR isn't lost until an officer formally revokes it.

My mother travelled back to Canada twice since then:

One time in 1987 and one time between 1997-2000

she remembers on one occasion the officer got angry with her and said something along the lines of: people try very hard to immigrate to Canada and your family was given 2 chances and you blew both. (we are trying to find out if this officer on this occasion reported my mum for not meeting the RO and therefor revoked her PR status??)

Is there any way to find out?

I've not really had any contact with the IRCC other than requesting my grandfathers landing record from the Canadian archives hoping they might have more info on his parents for genealogy purposes but it was just the other side of the carbon copy landing record I already have.

other than that my mother applied for proof of non Canadian citizenship (as we were looking into the possibility of dual German citizenship and they needed that)

other than this we've had no contact or interactions with the IRCC.

If my mother still has her PR then can she theoretically apply for ESTA and fly to the US on an Australian passport and cross by land into Canada as a regular visitor and then after 730 days apply for a PR card?

Otherwise would there be humanitarian and compassionate grounds? she has no criminal records, a good work history, is a registered nurse and her brother is living there right now.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Buletruck]

It's doubtful there are any H&C grounds after 40+ years. Does she plan on settling in Canada as a PR? At 58(?) there's no option for her to any retirement benefits (realistically) from the government, although other benefits from her current country of residence may supplement that. Other than that, all she can do is try entering at a land border. Avoid a PRTD, as that would likely result in her loosing her PR. If she's not planning on settling in Canada, there's not much point in having a PR card or status practically, as her Australian passport affords her visa free entry to visit.

 

[divineintellect02]

It's doubtful there are any H&C grounds after 40+ years. Does she plan on settling in Canada as a PR? At 58(?) there's no option for her to any retirement benefits (realistically) from the government, although other benefits from her current country of residence may supplement that. Other than that, all she can do is try entering at a land border. Avoid a PRTD, as that would likely result in her loosing her PR. If she's not planning on settling in Canada, there's not much point in having a PR card or status practically, as her Australian passport affords her visa free entry to visit.

is there a way to know though if her PR was revoked when she went back to visit? she just remembers the border officer being angry at her (and she said to him it was my parents, I was just a kid)

to answer your question if she wants to settle: its uncertain (the thought has certainly crossed her mind), she is 57 years old and still works full time.

our trip in a few months is really just to visit family but I think that would be the real kicker as to if she wants to settle.

do they also still accept the old landing permit form to apply for ID documents and confirmation of SIN? this one is dated 1974

from my research yes but I've heard people say otherwise on here.

 

[armoured]

is there a way to know though if her PR was revoked when she went back to visit? she just remembers the border officer being angry at her (and she said to him it was my parents, I was just a kid)

My guess only is that if she wasn't given any formal papers, that it has not been revoked.

do they also still accept the old landing permit form to apply for ID documents and confirmation of SIN? this one is dated 1974

If she has a previous SIN, it should still be valid but may have been put on hold. (I forget the precise term). This is mainly done so that it can't be used to get benefits. It is still a valid SIN # to use. Getting it 'unlocked' per se may be difficult but in fact can be used to work. It just may result in a query to the employer ('is it really this person?').

Health care may be more difficult and some other contexts in which PR card may be requested.

So in theory the enter-via-USA might work - or at border they may start the process to revoke, a 44(1) report (subject to appeal). Or they might politely say you're pulling our leg, could you fill out this form to renounce PR status and we can all avoid some paperwork (which would basically leave it up to her).

It just might not all be that practical. Health care being the big issue, honestly.

 

[YVR123]

My guess only is that if she wasn't given any formal papers, that it has not been revoked.



If she has a previous SIN, it should still be valid but may have been put on hold. (I forget the precise term). This is mainly done so that it can't be used to get benefits. It is still a valid SIN # to use. Getting it 'unlocked' per se may be difficult but in fact can be used to work. It just may result in a query to the employer ('is it really this person?').

Health care may be more difficult and some other contexts in which PR card may be requested.

So in theory the enter-via-USA might work - or at border they may start the process to revoke, a 44(1) report (subject to appeal). Or they might politely say you're pulling our leg, could you fill out this form to renounce PR status and we can all avoid some paperwork (which would basically leave it up to her).

It just might not all be that practical. Health care being the big issue, honestly.

Agree that she is unlikely to get healthcare coverage until she has a PR card (for most provinces). If she plans to travel, it's better to get travel health insurance to cover emergency.

 

[divineintellect02]

My guess only is that if she wasn't given any formal papers, that it has not been revoked.



If she has a previous SIN, it should still be valid but may have been put on hold. (I forget the precise term). This is mainly done so that it can't be used to get benefits. It is still a valid SIN # to use. Getting it 'unlocked' per se may be difficult but in fact can be used to work. It just may result in a query to the employer ('is it really this person?').

Health care may be more difficult and some other contexts in which PR card may be requested.

So in theory the enter-via-USA might work - or at border they may start the process to revoke, a 44(1) report (subject to appeal). Or they might politely say you're pulling our leg, could you fill out this form to renounce PR status and we can all avoid some paperwork (which would basically leave it up to her).

It just might not all be that practical. Health care being the big issue, honestly.

Wouldn't she be able to just hide her PR and just not say anything and act as if she is visiting? would they have her in the system? she never applied for a PR card (the only PR document she had was her IMM1000 document from 1974)

 

[scylla]

is there a way to know though if her PR was revoked when she went back to visit? she just remembers the border officer being angry at her (and she said to him it was my parents, I was just a kid)

to answer your question if she wants to settle: its uncertain (the thought has certainly crossed her mind), she is 57 years old and still works full time.

our trip in a few months is really just to visit family but I think that would be the real kicker as to if she wants to settle.

do they also still accept the old landing permit form to apply for ID documents and confirmation of SIN? this one is dated 1974

from my research yes but I've heard people say otherwise on here.

- Easiest way to find out if she is still a PR is to apply for an eTA.
- There is really no H&C argument to make given how long she has been out of Canada.
- If she wants to try to save her PR status (assuming it is not already gone) she will need to fly to the US and hope she can re-enter Canada without being reported.
- She will not be able to apply for a sin with her old landing papers. This used to be possible years ago but is no longer doable.
- She will not be able to apply for health care coverage when she returns. She needs a valid PR card to do that. To get a valid PR card, she will need to re-enter Canada without being reported and then remain in Canada for two years without leaving. You're probably looking at 2.5 years without provincial health care coverage during which time she should purchase insured to cover emergencies and will need to pay out of pocket for non emergency care and likely anything related to pre-existing conditions.

 

[armoured]

- Easiest way to find out if she is still a PR is to apply for an eTA.

There have been cases of those with PR status (never revoked or renounced) from decades ago who have been granted ETAs. While this may be a reliable test in vast majority of cases, not always, and this is type of case where it might not be.

 

[divineintellect02]

There have been cases of those with PR status (never revoked or renounced) from decades ago who have been granted ETAs. While this may be a reliable test in vast majority of cases, not always, and this is type of case where it might not be.

I think maybe I should make a ATIP request for the FOSS and GCMS notes of her landing permit (see if there are any remarks)
won't do anything until I am sure it won't set off red alarms everywhere

 

[armoured]

I think maybe I should make a ATIP request for the FOSS and GCMS notes of her landing permit (see if there are any remarks)
won't do anything until I am sure it won't set off red alarms everywhere

My guess is that her landing permit from 1974 may be prior to these systems. That's primarily what I was referring to about how those with very old (by IRCC standards) files may sometimes not be caught by the "do not issue ETA to PRs" rule the system is supposed to enforce.

Now (going back to @scylla's post above) there is a scenario in which applying for an ETA would definitely prove that she is still a PR, if she applied and was refused. That would indicate she is a PR and is shown in the system as a PR - and hence may well have an interview/secondary about her status as a PR, and possibly they would write up a 44(1) report.

The problem is being granted one would NOT tell you the opposite - it could indicate her PR status was renounced/revoked, OR it could mean that the system does not capture her PR status (simply because they left some paper files out as no longer relevant when they digitized).