+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Toward Understanding Bill C-6 to Amend Citizenship Act; new 3/5 rule plus

Politren

Hero Member
Jan 16, 2015
470
149
I also have a feeling that a lot of people have very unrealistic expectations regarding the actual enforcement of the 3/5 rule. It will not be soon for sure, even with a Royal Assent in June this year.

Some people are still confusing the Royal Assent with the actual enforcement of the 3/5 rule. Both things are completely different.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
Dear friends,

I have been Continuously in Canada/Calgary for the last three years with PR status. I recently lost my job due to the downturn in Oil and Gas Industry. I am not optimistic to find a job here in Canada, however probably I should be able to find a temporary job in middle east for the time being. My wish to obtain Canadian citizenship obviously is the number-1 priority. Do you think I should be fine if I take the job out of Canada and once C-6 is fully operational come back to Canada to apply for Citizenship? I may like to continue traveling back and forth until I obtain my citizenship in Oil and Gas situation remain the same.

Please advise.

Many thanks.
 

links18

Champion Member
Feb 1, 2006
2,009
128
Mayoun said:
Dear friends,

I have been Continuously in Canada/Calgary for the last three years with PR status. I recently lost my job due to the downturn in Oil and Gas Industry. I am not optimistic to find a job here in Canada, however probably I should be able to find a temporary job in middle east for the time being. My wish to obtain Canadian citizenship obviously is the number-1 priority. Do you think I should be fine if I take the job out of Canada and once C-6 is fully operational come back to Canada to apply for Citizenship? I may like to continue traveling back and forth until I obtain my citizenship in Oil and Gas situation remain the same.

Please advise.

Many thanks.
Its not entirely clear what you intend to do. Will you apply for Canadian citizenship and then take a job abroad? If so, there are two dangers: 1.) the "intent to reside" clause, which is still the law until Parliament changes it and 2.) Your PR status, which you must maintain until you take the citizenship oath. If you are planning to take a job abroad and then come back once C-6 is operational there are two problems: 1.) Will you still qualify for citizenship, because you will have been absent from Canada for some time? 2.) Bill C-6 may be operational soon--do you want to take a job, leave Canada, only to come back rather soon to apply?
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
Mayoun said:
Dear friends,

I have been Continuously in Canada/Calgary for the last three years with PR status. I recently lost my job due to the downturn in Oil and Gas Industry. I am not optimistic to find a job here in Canada, however probably I should be able to find a temporary job in middle east for the time being. My wish to obtain Canadian citizenship obviously is the number-1 priority. Do you think I should be fine if I take the job out of Canada and once C-6 is fully operational come back to Canada to apply for Citizenship? I may like to continue traveling back and forth until I obtain my citizenship in Oil and Gas situation remain the same.

Please advise.

Many thanks.
I did same mistake in 2008 and until now i am suffering. Due to middle east job first i got RQ for citizenship after that i withdraw it and again i got RQ for PR renewal also. This is a really danger zone. If you want to do a job in middle east first take your citizenship oath.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
links18 said:
Its not entirely clear what you intend to do. Will you apply for Canadian citizenship and then take a job abroad? If so, there are two dangers: 1.) the "intent to reside" clause, which is still the law until Parliament changes it and 2.) Your PR status, which you must maintain until you take the citizenship oath. If you are planning to take a job abroad and then come back once C-6 is operational there are two problems: 1.) Will you still qualify for citizenship, because you will have been absent from Canada for some time? 2.) Bill C-6 may be operational soon--do you want to take a job, leave Canada, only to come back rather soon to apply?
Many thanks for your kind reply. My possible job offer will come around early July. If by that time C-6 become operational of course I will apply first. I hope my job offer have sort of rotational routine. Lets say two months in Canada and two months out. I already fulfilled three years of staying. So anytime C-6 become effective, lets say in next six months, I am still qualified for being three years out of five years staying. I can apply then in one of my rest periods where I am in Canada. I hope I am safe with this my calculation. Please keep advising me. Thanks.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
heeradeepak said:
I did same mistake in 2008 and until now i am suffering. Due to middle east job first i got RQ for citizenship after that i withdraw it and again i got RQ for PR renewal also. This is a really danger zone. If you want to do a job in middle east first take your citizenship oath.
Many thanks my friend for sharing your valuable experience with me. What if my job have a rotational routine? I am not intended to be out of Canada for more than 3-4 months each time. I hope my job offer has two months work routine.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
links18 said:
Its not entirely clear what you intend to do. Will you apply for Canadian citizenship and then take a job abroad? If so, there are two dangers: 1.) the "intent to reside" clause, which is still the law until Parliament changes it and 2.) Your PR status, which you must maintain until you take the citizenship oath. If you are planning to take a job abroad and then come back once C-6 is operational there are two problems: 1.) Will you still qualify for citizenship, because you will have been absent from Canada for some time? 2.) Bill C-6 may be operational soon--do you want to take a job, leave Canada, only to come back rather soon to apply?
One more question, "intend to reside" clause will be removed once C-6 become fully operational. isn't it? Even if it is not what would be the criteria to judge people for that? Do you think I may fail that if I take sort of rotational job overseas. Many thanks for your kind comment on this.
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
Mayoun said:
Many thanks my friend for sharing your valuable experience with me. What if my job have a rotational routine? I am not intended to be out of Canada for more than 3-4 months each time. I hope my job offer has two months work routine.
Main problem is valid work visa and exit-entry stamps. CIC officers are well trained by conservative regime to create problems for innocent peoples who have more middle eastern stamps in their passports.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
heeradeepak said:
Main problem is valid work visa and exit-entry stamps. CIC officers are well trained by conservative regime to create problems for innocent peoples who have more middle eastern stamps in their passports.
What if I wait until C-6 become fully operational. I will be then well complied with the requirement (3 out of 5 years). The intend to reside will not be hopefully in the rules anymore. If I then take a rotational job for a while it should not bother anybody. Do you still believe they will give me a hard time?
 

heeradeepak

Hero Member
Jun 1, 2014
398
11
Mayoun said:
What if I wait until C-6 become fully operational. I will be then well complied with the requirement (3 out of 5 years). The intend to reside will not be hopefully in the rules anymore. If I then take a rotational job for a while it should not bother anybody. Do you still believe they will give me a hard time?
If you are applying after fully comply with requirement CIC officer cannot reject the but he can delay your case for further investigations for my wife passport they took 4 years.
 

Mayoun

Newbie
Mar 24, 2016
6
0
heeradeepak said:
If you are applying after fully comply with requirement CIC officer cannot reject the but he can delay your case for further investigations for my wife passport they took 4 years.
thanks for your reply.
 

oldfriend

Star Member
Mar 26, 2011
172
1
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Question to dpenabill and seniors please , suppose that the bill c-6 has passed all the stages and got the royal assent and eventually became a law, how PRs who have already submitted their applications for citizenship ( for all processing stages : from "in process" ..... to "oath" and granting the citizenship and beyond ) will benefit from this bill.
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,876
547
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
oldfriend said:
Question to dpenabill and seniors please , suppose that the bill c-6 has passed all the stages and got the royal assent and eventually became a law, how PRs who have already submitted their applications for citizenship ( for all processing stages : from "in process" ..... to "oath" and granting the citizenship and beyond ) will benefit from this bill.
PR's who have already submitted the applications under the 4/6 rule still need to abide to the 4/6 rules, regardless of when the 3/5 rule kick in. If PR's want to benefit under the 3/5 rule, they will have to withdraw their application and re-submit it under the 3/5 rule.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
oldfriend said:
Question to dpenabill and seniors please , suppose that the bill c-6 has passed all the stages and got the royal assent and eventually became a law, how PRs who have already submitted their applications for citizenship ( for all processing stages : from "in process" ..... to "oath" and granting the citizenship and beyond ) will benefit from this bill.
While screech339 is correct that for those applicants who applied under the 4/6 rule and whose application is still pending when the 3/5 (that is, IF and when the new law is adopted and takes effect) will need to meet the 4/6 rule qualification, that only covers a narrow slice of the answer to the question posed.

Indeed, to the extent the question is specifically about whether a 3/4 residency rule applies, a 4/6 presence rule, or the new 3/5 presence rule, generally the rule in effect at the time the application is made will dictate the rule that applies:
-- for applications made prior to June 11, 2015 and still in process, the 3/4 residency rule will govern
-- for applications made after June 11, 2015 and before the 3/5 rule comes-into-force, the 4/6 physical presence rule governs
-- for applications made after the 3/5 rule comes-into-force, the 3/5 rule will govern

But again, that only covers a slice of what provisions govern which applications.

Overall, it is important to keep in mind that the date Bill C-6 becomes law, the date it is given Royal Assent (assuming this will happen), is NOT the date triggering whose application is subject to which rules, but rather the coming-into-force date will, for many provisions, determine whose application is governed by which rules. And various parts of the new rules governing grant citizenship can come into force on different dates. There are, in fact, four different groups of provisions which can come-into-force on four completely different dates (one group comes into force on the date of Royal Assent, the others on a date to be determined by the Governor in Council), and how the provisions get applied to particular applicants with pending applications depends in part on the order in which these groups of provisions come-into-force. (Actually there are five groups, but only four involve provisions governing the grant of citizenship.)

Anyone who thinks they have a chart outlining what will happen, in terms of what will come-into-force and how that will affect different applicants, I would like to see that. For now, all we have is Bill C-6 itself and its Transitional Provisions, sections 14 through 23 of the Bill, of which sections 14 through 19 govern the provisions regarding grant citizenship, plus the Coming into Force provision, Section 27 in Bill C-6, which for purposes of grant citizenship has three separate groups of provisions which may come-into-force on different dates, apart from those which come-into-force as of Royal Assent.

For reference: this is a link to latest published version of Bill C-6

Also note, for example, there are bound to be some applicants with pending applications made prior to June 11, 2015. Those will continue to be mostly governed by the grant citizenship requirements in the Citizenship Act as it prescribed on June 10, 2015 (those who applied under the 3/4 rule will still be governed by the 3/4 rule for example).

For those who applied after June 11, 2015 and still have their application in process, the intent to reside requirement will no longer apply, and will be deemed to be as if it never applied (even though their application required affirmation of this intent).

Similarly, for those who applied after June 11, 2015 and still have their application in process, the language and knowledge of Canada requirements will be governed by the new, Bill C-6 provisions, after the respective provisions in Bill C-6 come-into-force, which might NOT be the same date as the 3/5 rule provisions come-into-force.

And there is what happens for applicants who make their application after parts of Bill C-6 take effect but before other parts take effect, for whom it is a little more complicated to unravel the if . . . then possibilities. (My guess is that there is a plan to organize the sequence to minimize differences in what applies to whom, to make it less complicated in practice than the cross-referencing in the provisions make it appear.)
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,284
3,046
One potential scenario; illustrating complexity of coming-into-force provisions:

One group of subsections in Section 1 in Bill C-6 includes the provisions which:
-- eliminates the 183 days in 4 calendar years presence requirement, and
-- restores credit for pre-landing time in Canada

In particular, this group may come-into-force on a date different from the date the 3/5 physical presence rule will come-into-force. The coming-into-force date for the first group is governed by Bill C-6 subsection 27(1), and the other by Bill C-6 subsection 27(2).

It is not necessary that the Governor in Council determine that a particular one will precede the other; either could precede the other, or the date could be the same. But Bill C-6 specifically provides for the circumstance in which the first group comes-into-force before the second, before the 3/5 presence rule comes-into-force. This is spelled out in transitional provision 15 in Bill C-6.

When it gets this complicated, I cannot definitively discern how it will work. Maybe someone else can do so.

My best guess is that section 15, the transitional provision, means that the 183 days in 4 calendar years presence requirement will continue to apply to applicants who make an application after these provisions technically come-into-force but before the 3/5 presence rule comes-into-force; similarly that for applications made during that period of time, they will not be entitled to credit for pre-landing time in Canada, even though the provision restoring this credit has technically come-into-force. But I cannot discern why the Bill was structured this way, why subsections 1(3) and 1(7) were not grouped together with 1(2).

It seems very likely that the date set by the Governor in Council for those provisions grouped in section 27(1) is intended to be much sooner rather than later, since this involves section 1(1) which corrects a significant gap the Conservatives left in the Citizenship Act due to the language in Bill C-24, relative to meeting requirements of citizenship until the oath is taken. But why subsections 1(3) and 1(7) were grouped with 1(1) rather than 1(2) is a mystery to me.