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Toward Understanding Bill C-6 to Amend Citizenship Act; new 3/5 rule plus

dpenabill

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Bill C-6 to Amend Citizenship Act; New 3 / 5 rule and campaign promises kept, and understanding what changes are proposed:

There have been several topics about what changes the Liberal government should make to the Citizenship Act, mostly focused on rolling back or outright repealing some, much, or even all of the changes that were implemented by the SCCA (Bill C-24).

Now that Minister McCallum has formally tabled Bill C-6 (An Act to Amend the Citizenship Act), the proposed revisions are very specific.

This proposed legislation is far, far more extensive than I anticipated, and the text of Bill C-6 only became available online barely an hour or so ago. Amending legislation is not easily read and understood. There were many elements in Bill C-24 which remained somewhat unclear even after it was adopted and parts were actually implemented. And some important consequences were still just becoming apparent some two years after that Bill was formally tabled (February 2014).

Thus, there is still a great deal to digest, to sort out, to try to understand in context.

Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship (IRCC) has, as would be typical, provided backgrounder information, which so far consists of both an Overview of the proposed changes (this should link) and a more detailed Comparative view of the proposed amendments (this too should link).

The text of Bill C-6 itself is now available online at the Current Bills page for the Parliament of Canada (this too should link) -- follow link for Bill C-6 and then in upper right corner of that page there is a dropdown link for published versions of the Bill.

My view is that it would be helpful to engage in a separate discussion focused on what this legislation actually means, understanding what effect it will have, what actual provisions are affected and how, and related matters such as proposed date for the coming into force date for particular provisions.

So I am starting a separate topic for that discussion, toward understanding what is proposed, not about whether this or that is good or bad, should this or that not be done, or this or that be done in addition, not about political or ideological opinions.

But, rather, focused on simply understanding what the changes are and what they will mean.

There is much to talk about. As I noted, the scope of this proposed legislation goes well beyond what I saw anyone predicting, way beyond what I anticipated.

It warrants noting that while overall the changes reflect an ideology and approach which is very much Liberal, there are some changes which impose tougher rules. Most notably is the proposed amendment to include Conditional sentencing as both a prohibition and as time to be excluded from the calculation of physical presence. This is one of those changes which I do not fully understand as yet, wondering if this will include conditional discharges, that is, cases in which a person is charged with an offence, the Crown apprehends it is minor enough or the evidence weak enough to allow the charges to be totally dismissed after a conditional period of time. We see many queries about such cases in the anecdotal reports in this and other forums. Many of these evolve out of a domestic argument which involved law enforcement and the arrest of one of the persons involved, and while the Crown is not willing to dismiss the charges outright, the Crown gives the accused a deal which will dismiss the charges after the conditional period is completed (typically including conditions like no further charges). If this change covers these cases, a large number of individuals will be detrimentally affected.

In any event, again, there is much to digest.

Key resources for now, again, are:

Bill C-6 itself: the text of Bill C-6 (this should link)

Overview of prosed changes:
Overview of the proposed changes (this should link)

A more detailed comparative analysis of the proposed changes:
Comparative view of the proposed amendments (this should link)

Cautionary note: as has been observed in other topics, the Senate continues to be controlled by Conservatives, dominated by Conservatives appointed by Stephen Harper. While it would be unusual for the Senate to outright preclude legislation approved by the House of Commons, it has happened. This legislation is profoundly liberal in many respects and is bound to rile the opposition, potentially inciting more than merely the gnashing of teeth. I have little idea to what extent this might result in a fight which goes to the level of Senate obstructionism, but for now that possibility cannot be casually dismissed.
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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If the senate doesn't cause any problems and this new amendment bill become effective soon it will create massive and huge volume of applications who will be eligible right away.
All those who were affected by the current rules effective already almost 9 months will create devastating instant flush of applications.

The normal average intake before July 2015 was ~800 applications per day. Now just imagine 365 multiplied by roughly 800, this will be the approx. number for those who will be eligible right away.

This is a major problem according to me. IRCC or the old name CIC will get literally blocked by huge piles of applications.
 
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DND

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
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Politren said:
If the senate doesn't cause any problems and this new amendment bill become effective soon it will create massive and huge volume of applications who will be eligible right away.
All those who were affected by the current rules effective already almost 9 months will create devastating instant flush of applications.

The normal average intake before July 2015 was ~800 applications per day. Now just imagine 365 multiplied by roughly 800, this will be the approx. number for those who will be eligible right away.

This is a major problem according to me. IRCC or the old name CIC will get literally blocked by huge piles of applications.

Note that some changes are done:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At Royal Assent

while other, such as 3/5 rule is:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At a date to be determined by the Governor in Council


What is the quickest time possible for the Royal assent?
The date determined by the Governor in Council or rater several different dates can be used to control the number of newly eliggible applicants in order to alleviate the problem


For instance
Royal assent, after a while lower language requirement, after a while count the pre-PR credit, after a while change to 3/5 instead of 4/6
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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DND said:
Note that some changes are done:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At Royal Assent

while other, such as 3/5 rule is:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At a date to be determined by the Governor in Council


What is the quickest time possible for the Royal assent?
The date determined by the Governor in Council or rater several different dates can be used to control the number of newly eliggible applicants in order to alleviate the problem


For instance
Royal assent, after a while lower language requirement, after a while count the pre-PR credit, after a while change to 3/5 instead of 4/6
In order the get a Royal Assent it needs to pass the House of Commons stage and after that the Senate stage. The Conservatives did that back in 2014 for about 4 months timeline. The Bill was introduced in Feb 2014 and received Royal Assent on June 19th 2014.

They really need to think about the effective dates because as of now the intake is controlled. When the effective date regarding the residence become effective back to 1095 days plus the credit for the pre PR time we most likely will see a disaster and basically create enormous instant backlog of around 200K-250K applications in a matter of few days.

Technically IRCC will be blocked.
 
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spiritsoul

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DND said:
Note that some changes are done:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At Royal Assent

while other, such as 3/5 rule is:
Proposed Date for Coming into Force: At a date to be determined by the Governor in Council


What is the quickest time possible for the Royal assent?
The date determined by the Governor in Council or rater several different dates can be used to control the number of newly eliggible applicants in order to alleviate the problem


For instance
Royal assent, after a while lower language requirement, after a while count the pre-PR credit, after a while change to 3/5 instead of 4/6
Where did you get the sequencing?
 

itsmyid

Champion Member
Jul 26, 2012
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Politren said:
If the senate doesn't cause any problems and this new amendment bill become effective soon it will create massive and huge volume of applications who will be eligible right away.
All those who were affected by the current rules effective already almost 9 months will create devastating instant flush of applications.

The normal average intake before July 2015 was ~800 applications per day. Now just imagine 365 multiplied by roughly 800, this will be the approx. number for those who will be eligible right away.

This is a major problem according to me. IRCC or the old name CIC will get literally blocked by huge piles of applications.
If they can process 25000 Syrian refugees' cases within a few months, they can do this too
 

DND

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
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Politren said:
In order the get a Royal Assent it needs to pass the House of Commons stage and after that the Senate stage. The Conservatives did that back in 2014 for about 4 months timeline. The Bill was introduced in Feb 2014 and received Royal Assent on June 19th 2014.

They really need to think about the effective dates because as of now the intake is controlled. When the effective date regarding the residence become effective back to 1095 days plus the credit for the pre PR time we most likely will see a disaster and basically create enormous instant backlog of around 200K-250K applications in a matter of few days.

Technically IRCC will be blocked.

Also note this:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


Such a backlog effectively means extra 1 year of processing time, but you are prohibited from moving elswhere:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


So for future 3/5 year applicants there is no change from now
- 3 yr + 1 yr backlog + processing
- 4 yr + processing


For those of us who were supposed to apply last year it means:
4 years + 1 yr backlog + processing
 

Politren

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Jan 16, 2015
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DND said:
Also note this:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


Such a backlog effectively means extra 1 year of processing time, but you are prohibited from moving elswhere:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


So for future 3/5 year applicants there is no change from now
- 3 yr + 1 yr backlog + processing
- 4 yr + processing


For those of us who were supposed to apply last year it means:
4 years + 1 yr backlog + processing
If this Bill become effective those who are meanwhile eligible under the 4/6 rule have to submit their applications with the huge mass who will be eligible under the new proposed 3/5 rule. All that will go on the same queue. So almost all the cleared backlog until now , will be created once again in a matter of days. Those affected from applying in the last 9 months will have to wait much longer because we will end up in the same bowl of processing time.
 

zardoz

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DND said:
Also note this:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


Such a backlog effectively means extra 1 year of processing time, but you are prohibited from moving elswhere:
Provision prohibiting applicants from taking the oath of citizenship if they never met or no longer meet the requirements for the grant of citizenship, but does not apply to applications received before June 11, 2015


So for future 3/5 year applicants there is no change from now
- 3 yr + 1 yr backlog + processing
- 4 yr + processing


For those of us who were supposed to apply last year it means:
4 years + 1 yr backlog + processing
What it actually says at http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1036069

Maintaining requirements for citizenship until Oath taking: The Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act introduced a rule that would not allow applicants to take the oath of citizenship if they no longer met the requirements for citizenship after the decision was made. Before this change, there was no authority to prevent an applicant in that situation from taking the oath. The time between the decision and taking of the oath is typically two to three months. However, the rule only applies to applications received after June 11, 2015, when the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act came into force, and not to applications received before that date.

The proposed change would require all applicants to continue to meet the requirements of citizenship until they take the Oath, regardless of when their application was received.
 

Politren

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itsmyid said:
If they can process 25000 Syrian refugees' cases within a few months, they can do this too
I don't think that the small number of 25K Syrians , can be compared with the expected devastating instant wave of more than 200K applicants ready instantly for citizenship.
Like you said 25K Syrians for the last couple of months (~4 months), can you imagine what will be situation at IRCC when the receive more than 200K eligible applications for citizenship in a matter of days. Most probably we will go back to 24-36 months processing timelines for regular applications.
 

DND

Star Member
Oct 20, 2014
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Politren said:
I don't think that the small number of 25K Syrians , can be compared with the expected devastating instant wave of more than 200K applicants ready instantly for citizenship.
Like you said 25K Syrians for the last couple of months (~4 months), can you imagine what will be situation at IRCC when the receive more than 200K eligible applications for citizenship in a matter of days. Most probably we will go back to 24-36 months processing timelines for regular applications.
Should be 1 yr, as right now they process applications from March-June 2015, and after that there were significantly less applicants
So if we assume it will be effective June, exactly 1 yr of new applicants enters the Queue, but the Queue should be almost empty by that time
 

scylla

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itsmyid said:
If they can process 25000 Syrian refugees' cases within a few months, they can do this too
Except that they didn't actually manage to do this. They failed to meet the processing targets. So I wouldn't hold your breath on citizenship application processing...
 

DND

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scylla said:
Except that they didn't actually manage to do this. They failed to meet the processing targets. So I wouldn't hold your breath on citizenship application processing...

Any liberal promise was about reducing citizenship processing times?
 

tiarachel85

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Whats difference between date to be determined by the Governor in Council and date of royal assent?
 
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