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The anatomy of a Background Check? - <<<<<<IN-DEPTH ANALYSIS>>>>>>>

olak131

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Aashy09

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Historically, they have been processed the fastest, something things may change, but I would still say that the processing of PNP is faster than FSW.
Hmm. Pnps are still pending from jan onwards. No ppr. While feb and march fsw already got ppr :(
 

drummerlover33

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Thanks for the very informative post, legalfalcon. Out of curiosity, do you think the CSIS peers into the emails of applicants (like what the NSA does)?
 

legalfalcon

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Thanks for the very informative post, legalfalcon. Out of curiosity, do you think the CSIS peers into the emails of applicants (like what the NSA does)?
I doubt it, but if they have concerns, or if there are red flags, its a security agency, and until you become a PR, you don't have any privacy rights under the Canadian constitution. Even if you raise privacy rights in the court, the big answer is "NATIONAL SECURITY."

So the answer is YES / NO / DEPENDS

If you read the last section of the post, CSIS Scandals you will know how great CSIS is (Pun intended).
 
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Sugar2016

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legalfalcon - do you know briefly what the difference is between the normal security process and security clearing?
Do CIC still complete the normal security process first and then start the security clearing process?
 

legalfalcon

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legalfalcon - do you know briefly what the difference is between the normal security process and security clearing?
Do CIC still complete the normal security process first and then start the security clearing process?

Security comprises of criminality + BGC. Security is conducted by CSIS, and agents and IRCC personnel s calls it with different names. But in my opinion, there is no difference.
 
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andybitty

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Security comprises of criminality + BGC. Security is conducted by CSIS, and agents and IRCC personnel s calls it with different names. But in my opinion, there is no difference.
Hi Legalfalcon,
This is a great and informative thread. Thanks a lot for helping us out on this forum.

You say security comprises of criminality + BGC. But I think clean PCC acts as criminality checks. I am Indian and lived in UK for couple of years. I have clean PCC for both these countries. I think this will act as criminality pass for me.

Also, going through the first couple of posts I can understand that CSIS do both security checks primirialy and criminality checks where possible. Right?

Also, typically CSIS do name based search in their database. They also have access to New Zealand, UK, US and Australia database and they can do security and criminal checks with these countries if required. Csis have access to interpol database as well and they check it if required.

In cases, where they need more information about somebody from countries other than their partner countries, CSIS can contact ministry of home affairs for that country.

For example, in my case as I am Indian and lived in UK as well. CSIS can check my criminal and security record for UK as they have access to UK database.

For India - I think in India we don't have any centralized criminal database for the whole country. We do have one for states though. So , I think for India, CIC uses PCC to pass criminal checks. Csis can also check with interpol India if required . Also, they can contact ministry of home affairs India to get further information on any individual if required and then ministry of home affairs can contact local police station. I think CSIS do not have access to Indian criminal database as they have for partner countries. Or there is any other way they check criminal or security issues in India or in any non - partner countries. Do India maintain any database for criminals or serious crimes and terrorists? If Indian maintain then How Csis access it? I think CSIS can only access Indian interpol. What is the process of CSIS doing security checks in India and UK?

Sorry for the long post and I hope you will be on answering it.

Regards
 

legalfalcon

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Hi Legalfalcon,
This is a great and informative thread. Thanks a lot for helping us out on this forum.

You say security comprises of criminality + BGC. But I think clean PCC acts as criminality checks. I am Indian and lived in UK for couple of years. I have clean PCC for both these countries. I think this will act as criminality pass for me.

Also, going through the first couple of posts I can understand that CSIS do both security checks primirialy and criminality checks where possible. Right?

Also, typically CSIS do name based search in their database. They also have access to New Zealand, UK, US and Australia database and they can do security and criminal checks with these countries if required. Csis have access to interpol database as well and they check it if required.

In cases, where they need more information about somebody from countries other than their partner countries, CSIS can contact ministry of home affairs for that country.

For example, in my case as I am Indian and lived in UK as well. CSIS can check my criminal and security record for UK as they have access to UK database.

For India - I think in India we don't have any centralized criminal database for the whole country. We do have one for states though. So , I think for India, CIC uses PCC to pass criminal checks. Csis can also check with interpol India if required . Also, they can contact ministry of home affairs India to get further information on any individual if required and then ministry of home affairs can contact local police station. I think CSIS do not have access to Indian criminal database as they have for partner countries. Or there is any other way they check criminal or security issues in India or in any non - partner countries. Do India maintain any database for criminals or serious crimes and terrorists? If Indian maintain then How Csis access it? I think CSIS can only access Indian interpol. What is the process of CSIS doing security checks in India and UK?

Sorry for the long post and I hope you will be on answering it.

Regards

Speaking specifically about India, it is important to understand how India functions. In the Constitution of India, Article 246 refers to the division of power between the states and the central government. The Schedule VII of the Constitution of India gives three lists, Union (issues on which only the parliament can make laws), State (on which only state legislatures can make laws), and the concurrent (issues on which either the parliament or state legislature can make laws). Article 246 also laws down the supremacy of the Parliament, i.e. in case of an issue in concurrent list, if the Parliament has made a law, the state legislatures cannot make one, and in case there is an existing state law, and if the parliament makes a law on the same issue, it will supersede the state law.

"Public order" and "police" show up as entry 1 & 2 respectively in the state list. However, "Weapons and guns" and "national security" are in the Union list. This is why the anti-terrorism laws, and gun control laws are all enacted by the parliament. With the establishment of NIA, the states have to share information with the central agencies of the crime. If a crime is prosecuted under the central law, like the NDPS or a anti-terrorism law, the Central agencies have to be notified. Especially with the AADHAR card and the passport being issued, the information is now available with the central government too.

Therefore, in most cases CSIS will rely on the PCC from India, but if they have a reason to believe that the applicant may be a threat to Canada and Canadian nationals, they will seek additional details, which India will provide, through the State or it central database. Most states readily exchange criminal and terrorism related information.

India has entered into bilateral treaty called "Exchange of Screening Information" with many countries and under this both countries are under obligation to share information of their citizens. Also, there is International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism which also mandates exchange of information to stop funding for terrorism.

What you describe is a very simplistic version, but things are much more detailed and CSIS or IRCC will just not admit a person solely on PCC.
 

andybitty

Full Member
May 30, 2017
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Speaking specifically about India, it is important to understand how India functions. In the Constitution of India, Article 246 refers to the division of power between the states and the central government. The Schedule VII of the Constitution of India gives three lists, Union (issues on which only the parliament can make laws), State (on which only state legislatures can make laws), and the concurrent (issues on which either the parliament or state legislature can make laws). Article 246 also laws down the supremacy of the Parliament, i.e. in case of an issue in concurrent list, if the Parliament has made a law, the state legislatures cannot make one, and in case there is an existing state law, and if the parliament makes a law on the same issue, it will supersede the state law.

"Public order" and "police" show up as entry 1 & 2 respectively in the state list. However, "Weapons and guns" and "national security" are in the Union list. This is why the anti-terrorism laws, and gun control laws are all enacted by the parliament. With the establishment of NIA, the states have to share information with the central agencies of the crime. If a crime is prosecuted under the central law, like the NDPS or a anti-terrorism law, the Central agencies have to be notified. Especially with the AADHAR card and the passport being issued, the information is now available with the central government too.

Therefore, in most cases CSIS will rely on the PCC from India, but if they have a reason to believe that the applicant may be a threat to Canada and Canadian nationals, they will seek additional details, which India will provide, through the State or it central database. Most states readily exchange criminal and terrorism related information.

India has entered into bilateral treaty called "Exchange of Screening Information" with many countries and under this both countries are under obligation to share information of their citizens. Also, there is International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism which also mandates exchange of information to stop funding for terrorism.

What you describe is a very simplistic version, but things are much more detailed and CSIS or IRCC will just not admit a person solely on PCC.
Thanks legalfalcon,
Wow man , this is a great explanation. You must be very intelligent.

So, NIA is equivalent to CSIS in India and they have their database which keeps updating and growing with information from states police about crimes under central laws. Right?

One more question: who keeps the criminal records in India ? Is it state police or courts? If we need PCC or Passport verification then Is it the responsibility of police or courts to do it? Who is responsible for mauntaining criminal records. Also, for example if CSIS asked indian authorities to find out about an individual then central agencies will contact state police or courts. Asking this to get clarity on this topic and how it works. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge. Regards
 
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legalfalcon

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Thanks legalfalcon,
Wow man , this is a great explanation. You must be very intelligent.

So, NIA is equivalent to CSIS in India and they have their database which keeps updating and growing with information from states police about crimes under central laws. Right?

All agencies have a different mandate and different organization structure, so it will be wrong to compare them. CSIS does background checks for immigrants and government officials. However, in India it is done by the state police and CBI. Its all about the mandate and what the agency is tasked to do. NIA, only investigates.

One more question: who keeps the criminal records in India ? Is it state police or courts? If we need PCC or Passport verification then Is it the responsibility of police or courts to do it? Who is responsible for mauntaining criminal records. Also, for example if CSIS asked indian authorities to find out about an individual then central agencies will contact state police or courts. Asking this to get clarity on this topic and how it works. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge. Regards

In India you can get the PCC from either the state police, which will ask the local police commissioner or the Police superintendent to issue it to you. However, such PCCs are confined to the district which issues you it to you. Alternatively, you can go to your local Passport sea Kendra and get one from there, as before a passport is issued the government will conduct a police verification.

Also, now the government is linking the AADHAR with all government IDs, and this will help in making things more streamlined.

The ministry of home affairs through the National Crime Records Bureau already has been compiling criminal data from across the country. In the recent year, apart from collecting numbers, they have also started maintaining the database with fingerprints and details.

SEE http://ncrb.gov.in

The Indian government recently initiated the process to have a no fly list, which will start with taking care of unruly passengers and as it goes further, will extend to people who are wanted criminals. http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2017/05/05/india-draws-up-no-fly-list-to-rein-in-unruly-airline-passenger_a_22070517/

All the government agencies are interconnected and over the last decade inter agency information sharing has increased. The CBI in India has been tasked with coordinating these efforts http://www.cbi.gov.in/interpol/interpoldelhi.php


If CSIS has to place a request, it does through its division which requests Foreign affairs Canada to send a request to its counterpart in India, which is Ministry of external affairs, which will then transfer it to Home Affairs.
 

jpv2212

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@legalfalcon

I read somewhere in the thread that for government employees, it takes a bit longer to check their BG.
Could you please elaborate the scenario with govt employees? Why it takes longer? And what do they check?

Will be grateful to you.
thanks.
 
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legalfalcon

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@legalfalcon

I read somewhere in the thread that for government employees, it takes a bit longer to check their BG.
Could you please elaborate the scenario with govt employees? Why it takes longer? And what do they check?

Will be grateful to you.
thanks.
For an in-depth analysis of security read this https://goo.gl/7wQ5CT

Government employees are are a higher threshold of having sensitive information and skill set which could be a threat to Canadian Security. This is not always the case, but since CSIS is not aware as to which branch of the government you are working for or what your role is, they will enquire into it and this would take some additional time. CSIS also wants to ensure that an applicant who has worked for a government is not entering Canada for espionage, or similar activities. Similarly, applicants with prior military service have specialized skills and training in dealing with weapons and explosives, which merits additional security.
 

jpv2212

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For an in-depth analysis of security read this https://goo.gl/7wQ5CT

Government employees are are a higher threshold of having sensitive information and skill set which could be a threat to Canadian Security. This is not always the case, but since CSIS is not aware as to which branch of the government you are working for or what your role is, they will enquire into it and this would take some additional time. CSIS also wants to ensure that an applicant who has worked for a government is not entering Canada for espionage, or similar activities. Similarly, applicants with prior military service have specialized skills and training in dealing with weapons and explosives, which merits additional security.
Thank you very much for this prompt reply. I really appreciate it.

Considering that I am a medical doctor working in a government hospital, do you see any problem or something that CSIS or IRCC find worth checking more in-depth?
 

legalfalcon

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Thank you very much for this prompt reply. I really appreciate it.

Considering that I am a medical doctor working in a government hospital, do you see any problem or something that CSIS or IRCC find worth checking more in-depth?
Nope, but they will probe a little extra thats all. When I say it may take a little longer, it does not mean that your application will be stuck. Just that in case they launch a probe, you may see a slight delay only on some applications.