Renewal of permanent residency card on H&C grounds

[omarjamalkhatib]

I have written this in my PRTD application could you guys do me a favor and help with with it and what are my chances at being accepted
My family initiated the process to immigrate to Canada several years ago, but my father decided to go back to Jordan because he claims he could not support us financially. it was my understanding that we did not make it far enough in the process to get my PR, leaving Canada when I was just 11 years old. Recently however I found out that I did in fact have a PR,I emailed the embassy immediately to figure out what my next step should be, had I not been kept in the dark about it, I would have applied immediately and went to school in Canada as soon as I become an independent adult, instead I went to a Jordanian university and will be graduating next month as a mechanical engineer.
Am 22 years old now

 

[rish888]

2 options:

1: Apply for a PRTD at the Canadian Embassy in Amman. Use the H&C grounds of "removed as a minor." These arguments usually only work as soon as a person becomes 18/19. While one part of this particular H&C application is that you were removed as minor, so you did not willingly violate your residency obligation, another part is proving that you kept your desire to reside in Canada alive throughout the time you were abroad with your parents, and acted on your intent to return to Canada by applying for a PRTD as soon as you were no longer under your parents' control. (Age of majority in most cases.)

In your case, you could try to argue that you never knew you were a PR, and as soon as you found out you tried to return to Canada; however, in this case you would have the burden of proof of demonstrating that you are returning to Canada at the earliest opportunity available to you based on your circumstances. If you can prove you are indeed attempting to return at the earliest opportunity, you may form the basis for a favorable decision.

You can apply for a PRTD, however, usually the older you are the less likely you are to get approved.

Nonetheless there is no harm in trying, you may get lucky, however you should also be prepared you may loose your status. If this is the case and assuming you have no other inadmissibility issues, (criminality etc) you should be able to get a student visa (for graduate school) or a work permit (job-specific) and one day become a PR in your own right.

There is a second option, which may have slightly higher rates of success, however is contingent upon a number of things.

1st: You must have, or be able to get a U.S. Visa.

2nd: You must be prepared to live in Canada for 730 days without being able to exit even once, no matter how dire your circumstances, without jeopardizing your PR status in Canada.

3rd: You must be willing to realize that certain day to day things will be hard. For example, obtaining a health card, discounted university tuition, and getting a SIN card.

If you have your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document as well as a SIN card, then line 3 may not have as much of an effect as it would if you were without documentation, however it certainly won't be as easy as it would if you have a valid PR card. (Which you can't get without first staying 730 days.)

Should this route prove successful for you, you should be fully willing to accept the consequences.

As to how the second route works:

You enter Canada via a land border crossing with the U.S. Unlike commercial transport, which requires a PR card or a PR travel document, if you utilize private transport (walking, rent a car etc) then you can technically enter with nothing but your passport; however, having your CoPR helps, especially if you are trying to fly under the radar.

Once at the border, any of 3 things can happen:

Step 1: The first officer (primary inspection line) doesn't detect your residency obligation violation, or detects it and gives you a warning to comply, and waves you into Canada. (This is the most preferable option.)

If the PIL office refers you to Secondary Inspection, then Step 2 commences:

You are referred to Secondary and the officer asks you about your residency obligation etc. In this case, you should have documentation to show the officer why you didn't comply, why you are returning now etc.

Depending on how the interview goes with the officer in Secondary, you may get anything from a verbal warning, a flag on the system, to a Section 44 report.

If you get a warning/ a flag, you are good to enter Canada.

If you get a Section 44 report, your case will be referred to a Minister's Delegate. (another CBSA officer.)

This officer will listen to whatever H&C considerations you have, then make 1 of 2 decisions:

1: Determine your H&C reasons to be sufficient. This amounts to an official adjudication, much like a successful PRTD application would. In this case you can apply for a PR card, get a SIN card, etc.

2: Determine your H&C reasons are insufficient, and issue you with a Departure Order . (Order to leave Canada in 30 days.) Once issued with a Departure Order, you will officially loose your PR status after 30 days, unless you take action and appeal the departure order. If you appeal, you can get 1-year PR cards. While the appeal is in process you can stay in Canada.

Once you get your appeal hearing, you will either retain your PR status, or the appeal will be dismissed. (In which case the departure order is official again and you have 30 days to leave.)

Note that in all possible outcomes that may occur at the POE, ultimately you have the right to enter Canada.

If your PRTD is denied, then you cannot enter Canada (unless you go through the land border route.)

Note that in the case of a PRTD denial, you still have the right of appeal to the IAD. However, unless you establish yourself in Canada before your appeal hearing, chances of a successful outcome are low.

Both options have their positives and negatives, and I recommend you carefully consider which option you want to take, however, either way you should make an attempt to return to Canada ASAP.

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

Thanks

 

[SecularFirst]

Hi rish888,

I left Canada less than 2 months after becoming PR last year in oct 2016. I am currently going to school in US and will be staying here till the end of my school program. I would be spending 2 years and 11 months outside Canada by the time I would go back. I know I will cutting close to the PR obligation. My school program is 2 years long and after that I am planning to work for one year in US before returning back.

My question is-
1- Will I be allowed back in Canada on my PR status in feb 2020?
2- I have taken a $30,000 Canadian Government student loan for my school, and will be returning it in 10 years, Would that work in my favour on my return at the border? Can the border officer allow me in to repay the loan or will they cancel my PR?
3- My fiancee has applied for PR application in PNP class and she is expecting to get her PR next year. She is also currently in US for school.
We are planning to get married in next two years. Assuming she get her PR next year, and we get married, would this help me retain my PR status ?

Thanks

 

[SecularFirst]

Also, I have constantly paying my monthly BC medical services plan and keeping my bank account and canadian phone number vaild. I have set up a Canadian address to receive my mail, will these measures be of any help while returning back?

P.S- I have done my masters from Canada and worked there for close to 2 years before getting PR.

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

2 options:

1: Apply for a PRTD at the Canadian Embassy in Amman. Use the H&C grounds of "removed as a minor." These arguments usually only work as soon as a person becomes 18/19. While one part of this particular H&C application is that you were removed as minor, so you did not willingly violate your residency obligation, another part is proving that you kept your desire to reside in Canada alive throughout the time you were abroad with your parents, and acted on your intent to return to Canada by applying for a PRTD as soon as you were no longer under your parents' control. (Age of majority in most cases.)

In your case, you could try to argue that you never knew you were a PR, and as soon as you found out you tried to return to Canada; however, in this case you would have the burden of proof of demonstrating that you are returning to Canada at the earliest opportunity available to you based on your circumstances. If you can prove you are indeed attempting to return at the earliest opportunity, you may form the basis for a favorable decision.

You can apply for a PRTD, however, usually the older you are the less likely you are to get approved.

Nonetheless there is no harm in trying, you may get lucky, however you should also be prepared you may loose your status. If this is the case and assuming you have no other inadmissibility issues, (criminality etc) you should be able to get a student visa (for graduate school) or a work permit (job-specific) and one day become a PR in your own right.

There is a second option, which may have slightly higher rates of success, however is contingent upon a number of things.

1st: You must have, or be able to get a U.S. Visa.

2nd: You must be prepared to live in Canada for 730 days without being able to exit even once, no matter how dire your circumstances, without jeopardizing your PR status in Canada.

3rd: You must be willing to realize that certain day to day things will be hard. For example, obtaining a health card, discounted university tuition, and getting a SIN card.

If you have your Confirmation of Permanent Residence document as well as a SIN card, then line 3 may not have as much of an effect as it would if you were without documentation, however it certainly won't be as easy as it would if you have a valid PR card. (Which you can't get without first staying 730 days.)

Should this route prove successful for you, you should be fully willing to accept the consequences.

As to how the second route works:

You enter Canada via a land border crossing with the U.S. Unlike commercial transport, which requires a PR card or a PR travel document, if you utilize private transport (walking, rent a car etc) then you can technically enter with nothing but your passport; however, having your CoPR helps, especially if you are trying to fly under the radar.

Once at the border, any of 3 things can happen:

Step 1: The first officer (primary inspection line) doesn't detect your residency obligation violation, or detects it and gives you a warning to comply, and waves you into Canada. (This is the most preferable option.)

If the PIL office refers you to Secondary Inspection, then Step 2 commences:

You are referred to Secondary and the officer asks you about your residency obligation etc. In this case, you should have documentation to show the officer why you didn't comply, why you are returning now etc.

Depending on how the interview goes with the officer in Secondary, you may get anything from a verbal warning, a flag on the system, to a Section 44 report.

If you get a warning/ a flag, you are good to enter Canada.

If you get a Section 44 report, your case will be referred to a Minister's Delegate. (another CBSA officer.)

This officer will listen to whatever H&C considerations you have, then make 1 of 2 decisions:

1: Determine your H&C reasons to be sufficient. This amounts to an official adjudication, much like a successful PRTD application would. In this case you can apply for a PR card, get a SIN card, etc.

2: Determine your H&C reasons are insufficient, and issue you with a Departure Order . (Order to leave Canada in 30 days.) Once issued with a Departure Order, you will officially loose your PR status after 30 days, unless you take action and appeal the departure order. If you appeal, you can get 1-year PR cards. While the appeal is in process you can stay in Canada.

Once you get your appeal hearing, you will either retain your PR status, or the appeal will be dismissed. (In which case the departure order is official again and you have 30 days to leave.)

Note that in all possible outcomes that may occur at the POE, ultimately you have the right to enter Canada.

If your PRTD is denied, then you cannot enter Canada (unless you go through the land border route.)

Note that in the case of a PRTD denial, you still have the right of appeal to the IAD. However, unless you establish yourself in Canada before your appeal hearing, chances of a successful outcome are low.

Both options have their positives and negatives, and I recommend you carefully consider which option you want to take, however, either way you should make an attempt to return to Canada ASAP.

I got another question what are the documents that I should send with the application the check list isn't openning at the website thanks again

 

[rish888]

@SecularFirst

Firstly: Why are you playing with fire? You are not yet in a situation where you violated your residency obligation, yet somehow you want to violate it and then still retain it.

To answer your questions specifically, If you became a PR in Oct 2016 and spent 2 full months in Canada, you can return latest by December 2019. Say you spent 60 full days, you would need to return when you still have 670 left until your PR card expires.

If you want to return in Feb and risk your PR status for just 2 months, that is your choice.

If you are at the border and in violation, the officer needs to let you in. However, the officer may report you and you will be issued with a departure order.

To know what happens with a departure order or the different outcomes that may happen at the border, see my above post.

As for would your loan work in your favor, I can't really say. Depends on whether the officer sees it as some measure of establishment or no.

As regards to retaining your status if you are in RO violation, your ties to Canada compounded with your relatively minor transgression (60 days assuming you return in Feb) may form the basis for a favorable H&C decision.

Note the use of the word "may." I am not immigration, I cannot guarantee an outcome either way, however I can tell you this:

The appeal division, and to a certain extent the CBSA officers, tend to frown upon people who left Canada solely for education or job prospects.

Parliament considered placing a RO exemption for people studying when drafting the IRPA, however decided against it. I have read quite a few IAD decisions on people out studying, and most of them were unsuccessful. Violating your RO to work outside Canada has never been a successful excuse for RO non compliance in the cases I have read.

In general, to get H&C relief, you must meet the following burden: (not specific, but to give you an idea)

"Your circumstances should excite any reasonable person to do their very best to attempt to relive your misfortunes."

As such, most successful H&C cases involve people who had no choice but to leave to say take care of a sick relative, or children taken out of Canada by their parents.

You choosing to study, then work in the US certainly cannot be described as a misfortune in my opinion.

The IAD may allow you to retain your PR status notwithstanding your conscious choice not to comply with your residency obligation, however they may also dismiss your appeal, saying you should have considered your loss of status before choosing to study and work in the U.S.


Should your fiancee become a PR and you get married, you would be eligible for spousal sponsorship if you loose your PR.

As to would this work in you favor in an appeal, it may work for you, but it may also work against you. (Because if your spouse can sponsor you to be a PR again, loosing your PR wouldn't really affect your life that much.)

All in all, I would say just go back while you're still in compliance. I have been on this forum for sometime now and you are the first person I have seen who can still meet the RO but nonetheless wants to break it and try H&C.

I don't know your circumstances and I am not judging your choice to violate your RO; however, I do sincerely recommend you finish your studies and return to Canada. You are lucky as you have no longer crossed the point of no return, don't let it get to that.

 

[rish888]

I got another question what are the documents that I should send with the application the check list isn't openning at the website thanks again

My laptop doesn't open it either. Maybe place a post asking if anyone on this forum can attach a jpg copy or something.

I gather you are taking the PRTD route?

Good luck!

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

My laptop doesn't open it either. Maybe place a post asking if anyone on this forum can attach a jpg copy or something.

I gather you are taking the PRTD route?

Good luck!

thanks man i hope everything works out

 

[rish888]

@SecularFirst

These are more specific H&C factors considered in an appeal, I have also attached how I would view each factor; however maybe there are some IAD members out there who would view it completely differently.

Extent of RO Violation

(In your case not too much.)

Reasons for Departure

(Education/Job tends to be negative.)

Reasons for Continued Stay abroad

(Again, a voluntary choice, not really a positive.)

Whether attempts to return were made at earliest available opportunity.

(Since your entire stay abroad was voluntary, this would be a resounding no, unless your case has some other factors that you have not mentioned on the forum.)

Degree of establishment in Canada (initial and continuing.)

In my view this factor works in you favor, given you stayed studied and worked, maintained bank accounts etc. If you are reported when returning, try to stay as many days as possible in Canada until your appeal to gain the most benefit from this factor.

Family in Canada:

A fiancee/spouse would in my view work to your benefit.

Hardship to the appellant/close family if PR status is lost.

I don't know your full circumstances so I can't really comment, however given your wife could sponsor you the panel may view that as offsetting any hardship you may have.

Best Interests of a Child:

As long as you don't have kids, this would not apply.

As you can see, there are both positive and negative factors. Based on the information you provided, nothing screams out granting relief. The outcome would most likely be based on how the IAD member weighs each factor. (Can work both for an against you.)

Don't risk getting reported at the border/IAD appeal when you have a chance to avoid it.

 

[rish888]

I got another question what are the documents that I should send with the application the check list isn't openning at the website thanks again

Just a quick note;

In replying to Secularfirst, I attached a list of factors considered when making a H&C decision. Go over them, and when writing your letter try to show how each of these factors are a positive in your case.

My two cents on writing your H&C letter,

1: Stress you did not choose to leave Canada, stay abroad for as long as you did, and violate your RO.

2: Emphasize that you want to return to Canada permanently, be a productive member of society etc. Stress that now that you are an adult and in charge of your life, you will fulfill your RO and make Canada your home.

3: Be preemptive and say that while you are 22, you only found out now that your are a PR (attach supporting documentation) and that you acted on it as soon as you found out. Also emphasize that had you known sooner, you would have tried to return as soon as possible.

4: Express to the panel what hardship you would suffer if you lost your PR status, how this would affect your life.

 

[SecularFirst]

Hello rish888,

Thank you so much for the reply.
I really want to settle down in Canada, that's why I went there in the first place. I did masters and worked there. I applied PR under CEC and got it. Then I applied to US dental schools and got accepted there. I couldn't apply to Canadian dental school until I became PR and that would have taken another year, possibly two more years to go to school in Canada after I became PR. I didnt want to lose time and It's hard to get into school so I took up the admission and moved to US.
I try my best to visit Canada during long weekends and breaks.

The thing is I am also taking some student loan from US as dental schools are way too expensive. I will be done with the school in january 2019 and then would start working in march 2019. (it takes one month, possibly two to get work permit etc) I would be doing one year contract to repay my student loan in US. This would place me very close to violating RO. But thats something I cant avoid.
Also I am planning to register myself in Ontario as a licensed dentist as soon as I am done with school here. That could help me when I come back a year later.

I have calculated my points and coz I have previous NOC B work exp, and Canadian masters, I could try for express entry in 2020, but no one know how rules and things will be by then.
If I become registered dentist in ontario in 2019, then I could also try for LMIA from any employer but again, there is no guarantee.

My fiancee also did her Masters in Canada and is applying for Master stream PNP. She is also currently in US just like me.
We really dont want to settle in US as US immigration is much more unpredictable and take huge amount of time.

What should we do in such situation?

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

Just a quick note;

In replying to Secularfirst, I attached a list of factors considered when making a H&C decision. Go over them, and when writing your letter try to show how each of these factors are a positive in your case.

My two cents on writing your H&C letter,

1: Stress you did not choose to leave Canada, stay abroad for as long as you did, and violate your RO.

2: Emphasize that you want to return to Canada permanently, be a productive member of society etc. Stress that now that you are an adult and in charge of your life, you will fulfill your RO and make Canada your home.

3: Be preemptive and say that while you are 22, you only found out now that your are a PR (attach supporting documentation) and that you acted on it as soon as you found out. Also emphasize that had you known sooner, you would have tried to return as soon as possible.

4: Express to the panel what hardship you would suffer if you lost your PR status, how this would affect your life.

Well as I said before am gonna graduate from university after a month should I write that am willing to transfer to a canadian university to finish my bachelor degree there or should I put the traveling date in August what do u think ?

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

Just a quick note;

In replying to Secularfirst, I attached a list of factors considered when making a H&C decision. Go over them, and when writing your letter try to show how each of these factors are a positive in your case.

My two cents on writing your H&C letter,

1: Stress you did not choose to leave Canada, stay abroad for as long as you did, and violate your RO.

2: Emphasize that you want to return to Canada permanently, be a productive member of society etc. Stress that now that you are an adult and in charge of your life, you will fulfill your RO and make Canada your home.

3: Be preemptive and say that while you are 22, you only found out now that your are a PR (attach supporting documentation) and that you acted on it as soon as you found out. Also emphasize that had you known sooner, you would have tried to return as soon as possible.

4: Express to the panel what hardship you would suffer if you lost your PR status, how this would affect your life.

Well as I said before am gonna graduate from university after a month should I write that am willing to transfer to a canadian university to finish my bachelor degree there or should I put the traveling date in August what do u think ?

 

[omarjamalkhatib]

Just a quick note;

In replying to Secularfirst, I attached a list of factors considered when making a H&C decision. Go over them, and when writing your letter try to show how each of these factors are a positive in your case.

My two cents on writing your H&C letter,

1: Stress you did not choose to leave Canada, stay abroad for as long as you did, and violate your RO.

2: Emphasize that you want to return to Canada permanently, be a productive member of society etc. Stress that now that you are an adult and in charge of your life, you will fulfill your RO and make Canada your home.

3: Be preemptive and say that while you are 22, you only found out now that your are a PR (attach supporting documentation) and that you acted on it as soon as you found out. Also emphasize that had you known sooner, you would have tried to return as soon as possible.

4: Express to the panel what hardship you would suffer if you lost your PR status, how this would affect your life.

Well as I said before am gonna graduate from university after a month should I write that am willing to transfer to a canadian university to finish my bachelor degree there or should I put the traveling date in August what do u think ?