Reference Letter From Ex-Colleague

[hshringi]

Unsurprisingly, a number of companies I have worked for in the past have refused to provide me a reference letter (at least I've got mail from one of the HR confirming they won't give it to me - the other won't even respond to my mails/calls)

Anyways, I am planning to get a job experience letter written from one of my ex-colleagues instead. Problem is, he too has left that organization now.

Unfortunately, I'm not in touch with any of my other colleagues who are still working there (majority have left) so I can't ask anyone else either. Similarly, my ex-manager has also refused to give me the reference letter (he says he will only follow the HR policy of the company)

So my question is two-fold:

a) Is there any benefit to me getting a reference letter from him even though he has left the organization as well? I will ask him if he still has his visiting card that he can attach (but I doubt he'll still have those - certainly his company email won't be activated anymore I presume). We'll of course get the reference letter notarized as well

b) If there is in fact any benefit of collecting this letter, what should be the format of this reference letter?

I do intend to submit a LOE alongside/without this reference letter but I'm wondering if I should even bother with trying to get this letter at all or not

 

[Han]

Unsurprisingly, a number of companies I have worked for in the past have refused to provide me a reference letter (at least I've got mail from one of the HR confirming they won't give it to me - the other won't even respond to my mails/calls)

Anyways, I am planning to get a job experience letter written from one of my ex-colleagues instead. Problem is, he too has left that organization now.

Unfortunately, I'm not in touch with any of my other colleagues who are still working there (majority have left) so I can't ask anyone else either. Similarly, my ex-manager has also refused to give me the reference letter (he says he will only follow the HR policy of the company)

So my question is two-fold:

a) Is there any benefit to me getting a reference letter from him even though he has left the organization as well? I will ask him if he still has his visiting card that he can attach (but I doubt he'll still have those - certainly his company email won't be activated anymore I presume). We'll of course get the reference letter notarized as well

b) If there is in fact any benefit of collecting this letter, what should be the format of this reference letter?

I do intend to submit a LOE alongside/without this reference letter but I'm wondering if I should even bother with trying to get this letter at all or not

AFAK, the reference letter should be written, stamped and/or signed by your supervisor/boss and must be on company's letterhead!

 

[hshringi]

I realize that but my ex-supervisor (and the HR folks) have already refused to give me a reference letter so I am talking about my alternative options here

So basically my question is that since I "definitely" cannot get the reference letter from my ex-supervisor/HR, does it make sense to get a reference letter from an ex-colleague (who too is no longer in that organization) or should I simply provide a self-attested LOE instead?

I was thinking of providing both a reference letter from this ex-colleague and a LOE but if you guys (who know way more than I do) suggest that this reference letter would be meaningless (or even harmful) then I will simply ignore it and submit the LOE alongside my supplementary documents (pay slips, HR emails, joining letter, relieving letter, etc - documents that I was planning to include either way)

 

[PseudoNamePK]

Unsurprisingly, a number of companies I have worked for in the past have refused to provide me a reference letter (at least I've got mail from one of the HR confirming they won't give it to me - the other won't even respond to my mails/calls)

Anyways, I am planning to get a job experience letter written from one of my ex-colleagues instead. Problem is, he too has left that organization now.

Unfortunately, I'm not in touch with any of my other colleagues who are still working there (majority have left) so I can't ask anyone else either. Similarly, my ex-manager has also refused to give me the reference letter (he says he will only follow the HR policy of the company)

So my question is two-fold:

a) Is there any benefit to me getting a reference letter from him even though he has left the organization as well? I will ask him if he still has his visiting card that he can attach (but I doubt he'll still have those - certainly his company email won't be activated anymore I presume). We'll of course get the reference letter notarized as well

b) If there is in fact any benefit of collecting this letter, what should be the format of this reference letter?

I do intend to submit a LOE alongside/without this reference letter but I'm wondering if I should even bother with trying to get this letter at all or not

Keep in mind you don't need to have a reference letter for EVERY job you ever held. Instead just get a letter from the one/two most recent employers that are relevant to your NOC. Remember you get the max points for 3 years of experience, any experience beyond that does not add to your points. You do not need to mention any old jobs in your EE profile work history section instead just put it in personal history (you then won't be asked to provide letters for those jobs).

 

[hshringi]

Yes I realize that - unfortunately, I am in fact talking about one of the roles that I intend to take credit for on NOC. I have more work experiences that I haven't included (in work history - listed them in personal history of course) but fact is they are even more obscure companies (startups) so getting a reference letter from them is next to impossible (and gathering supplementary documents as an alternative isn't easy either)

 

[CADparity]

I realize that but my ex-supervisor (and the HR folks) have already refused to give me a reference letter so I am talking about my alternative options here

So basically my question is that since I "definitely" cannot get the reference letter from my ex-supervisor/HR, does it make sense to get a reference letter from an ex-colleague (who too is no longer in that organization) or should I simply provide a self-attested LOE instead?

I was thinking of providing both a reference letter from this ex-colleague and a LOE but if you guys (who know way more than I do) suggest that this reference letter would be meaningless (or even harmful) then I will simply ignore it and submit the LOE alongside my supplementary documents (pay slips, HR emails, joining letter, relieving letter, etc - documents that I was planning to include either way)

It's better to provide some reference letter than no reference letter at all. If there is no document that lists your duties and responsibilities, CIC will certainly reject you as they won't be able to verify the NOC you've chosen for your job.

So ask your ex-colleague to sign a reference letter and notarize it so that CIC is assured of the identity of the signatory. You will also need to submit proof that your colleague worked with your organization so that CIC knows that you were indeed colleagues. Ask him to submit scans of contracts, leaving letter, company ID badge, etc. - anything that proves where he worked, on what position, as well as for which period.

Do not submit self-attested duties - you will be rejected with almost 100% certainty. Get a notarized detailed reference letter from your colleague and submit all other documents that you can - contracts, pay slips, etc.

 

[hshringi]

It's better to provide some reference letter than no reference letter at all. If there is no document that lists your duties and responsibilities, CIC will certainly reject you as they won't be able to verify the NOC you've chosen for your job.

So ask your ex-colleague to sign a reference letter and notarize it so that CIC is assured of the identity of the signatory. You will also need to submit proof that your colleague worked with your organization so that CIC knows that you were indeed colleagues. Ask him to submit scans of contracts, leaving letter, company ID badge, etc. - anything that proves where he worked, on what position, as well as for which period.

Do not submit self-attested duties - you will be rejected with almost 100% certainty. Get a notarized detailed reference letter from your colleague and submit all other documents that you can - contracts, pay slips, etc.

Now that's a big problem.

I can't see why he (or anyone) would be willing to share their personal documents such as contracts, leaving letters, etc

Also I read (on this forum no less!) that a number of folks have submitted a self-attested letter in the format requested by CIC (alongside supplementary documents naturally) and have got their applications approved.

I can get the reference letter through this colleague but I highly doubt he would provide me any of his personal documents (and frankly it doesn't even feel right asking him for such private information)

With regards to NOC, I'll have to re-check but I'm pretty sure the appointment letter will have my work duties listed - certainly not in the format that CIC want but nonetheless its the same information (just presented in a different manner)

 

[Asivad Anac]

I can't see why he (or anyone) would be willing to share their personal documents such as contracts, leaving letters, etc

None of those required. Just their most recent business card would suffice.

Also I read (on this forum no less!) that a number of folks have submitted a self-attested letter in the format requested by CIC (alongside supplementary documents naturally) and have got their applications approved.

Unlikely. IRCC rejects self certified experience letters with or without other supporting documentation. They have no reasons to believe that you are telling the truth.

With regards to NOC, I'll have to re-check but I'm pretty sure the appointment letter will have my work duties listed - certainly not in the format that CIC want but nonetheless its the same information (just presented in a different manner)

If the appointment letter mentions job responsibilities and they closely match the main duties of your chosen NOC, you don't need a reference letter.

 

[hshringi]

Well I just checked and unfortunately the appointment letters do not include the job duties.

Wow I'm pretty screwed now

 

[Asivad Anac]

Well I just checked and unfortunately the appointment letters do not include the job duties.

Wow I'm pretty screwed now

Not really. This is very common here on the forum. Check here - this person got their PPR.

 

[CADparity]

Now that's a big problem.

I can't see why he (or anyone) would be willing to share their personal documents such as contracts, leaving letters, etc

Also I read (on this forum no less!) that a number of folks have submitted a self-attested letter in the format requested by CIC (alongside supplementary documents naturally) and have got their applications approved.

I can get the reference letter through this colleague but I highly doubt he would provide me any of his personal documents (and frankly it doesn't even feel right asking him for such private information)

With regards to NOC, I'll have to re-check but I'm pretty sure the appointment letter will have my work duties listed - certainly not in the format that CIC want but nonetheless its the same information (just presented in a different manner)

Contracts, etc. are not required documents. I suggested them as additional documents in case you can't get the letter in the required format and you need to ask your colleague to write it. If you don't feel comfortable asking for such documents, then don't. But it's good to submit some sort of proof that your colleague worked there, if you can, because that could bolster your case if the officer is having any doubts about the letter.

But I do recommend that you ask your colleague for a letter of reference, and it's better to get it notarized. Self-attested duties are usually rejected. At least from my research on this forum, this is what I have seen. There are some people that claim to have managed to get PR this way, but each case is unique and without knowing all the details and what additional documents they submitted, as well as whether that job was crucial for their points, I can't recommend that with certainty. The number of rejected people with self-attested duties is far greater.

 

[hshringi]

So now that I know for sure that the appointment letter does not include the job duties and HR + Manager have flatly refused to give me the reference letter + I am not in touch with anyone who is still working in the organization, do I have any options left to save my bacon?

Wow, I'm pretty scared to the bone now

What's worse, there's this other company I worked for in Singapore (I'm in India now so that makes it worse) where I am getting zero response from HR (my ex-manager has long since left that company and Singapore - I am in zero touch with him whatsoever now) and I know nobody who works there anymore (I worked there like 5 years back myself)

I have no idea what proof I can collect from there that will list my duties. I can get all the supplementary documents I have (pay slips, joining and exit letter, etc) but I don't think any of those will have my work duties listed (my job title aside)

What do you guys propose I should do in this instance?

Heck is there ANYTHING I can do in this instance?!

 

[hshringi]

Contracts, etc. are not required documents. I suggested them as additional documents in case you can't get the letter in the required format and you need to ask your colleague to write it. If you don't feel comfortable asking for such documents, then don't. But it's good to submit some sort of proof that your colleague worked there, if you can, because that could bolster your case if the officer is having any doubts about the letter.

But I do recommend that you ask your colleague for a letter of reference, and it's better to get it notarized. Self-attested duties are usually rejected. At least from my research on this forum, this is what I have seen. There are some people that claim to have managed to get PR this way, but each case is unique and without knowing all the details and what additional documents they submitted, as well as whether that job was crucial for their points, I can't recommend that with certainty. The number of rejected people with self-attested duties is far greater.

I'll get the reference letter from the ex-colleague certainly. Let's say that's for company X. From what I gather from your and Asivad's posts, that should be enough (alongside supplementary documents and notary stamp)

Please read my other post where I mentioned a company Y where the situation is seemingly even more dire as I probably can't get "any" reference letter whatsoever. Actually let me just copy-paste it here for convenience:

"There's this other company I worked for in Singapore (I'm in India now so that makes it worse) where I am getting zero response from HR (my ex-manager has long since left that company and Singapore - I am in zero touch with him whatsoever now) and I know nobody who works there anymore (I worked there like 5 years back myself)

I have no idea what proof I can collect from there that will list my duties. I can get all the supplementary documents I have (pay slips, joining and exit letter, etc) but I don't think any of those will have my work duties listed (my job title aside)

What do you guys propose I should do in this instance?

Heck is there ANYTHING I can do in this instance?!"

 

[hshringi]

Not really. This is very common here on the forum. Check here - this person got their PPR.

Thanks Asivad - certainly the suggestions there will work in that last instance I mentioned. What about this one? Is there anything I can do?:

"There's this other company I worked for in Singapore (I'm in India now so that makes it worse) where I am getting zero response from HR (my ex-manager has long since left that company and Singapore - I am in zero touch with him whatsoever now) and I know nobody who works there anymore (I worked there like 5 years back myself)

I have no idea what proof I can collect from there that will list my duties. I can get all the supplementary documents I have (pay slips, joining and exit letter, etc) but I don't think any of those will have my work duties listed (my job title aside)

What do you guys propose I should do in this instance?

Heck is there ANYTHING I can do in this instance?!"

 

[hshringi]

And you know to make matters worse, these aren't some random startup organizations either - both the companies I'm talking about are (I presume) fairly well known - Gartner (India) and Tripadvisor (Singapore)

Ofcourse I'm sure that makes zero difference to CIC but it does make me feel pretty bloody helpless and frustrated