Reapplying for PR - Lots of Time Outside of Canada

[JJN]

I'm trying to calculate how many more days I need to spend in Canada to renew my PR status (and card) and also, when to reapply.

I landed in Canada on the 15th of November 2015, between that date and today, I have only spent 709 days in Canada, and if I remember correctly, I need to have 730 days in total in the previous five years.

I will be travelling back to Canada soon for 1-2 months, but I'm not sure when I need to reapply. For example, if I return soon and make up 730 days or more since the 15th of November 2015, will I be able to reapply right away, or should I wait until the 15th of November 2020 to apply? Do I have to wait a full five years, or how does this work?

Also, if I apply earlier, do days in Canada before having PR status (but having a Temporary Worker status) apply too?

Thanks.

 

[Besram]

Some considerations:

• You can only apply for a new PR card if your card will expire in 9 months or less
• You need at least 730 days' residence in Canada in the preceding 5 years by the time you apply
• Many recommend a more substantial buffer to reduce the chances of secondary reviews
  
• You may be required to attend an in-person interview in Canada before your PR card is approved, so if you leave Canada before then, it may be difficult to get back in (especially if your PR card has expired)
  
• Also remember in this context that the residency calculation will become a rolling five year calculation following the five year anniversary of your landing - which means if you have spent any days in Canada shortly after landing, these will then no longer count (and you may fall short again)
• You may be examined for your compliance with the residency obligation every time you enter Canada
• Only days as a PR count for the purposes of fulfilling the residency obligation

 

[JJN]

Some considerations:

• You can only apply for a new PR card if your card will expire in 9 months or less
• You need at least 730 days' residence in Canada in the preceding 5 years by the time you apply
• Many recommend a more substantial buffer to reduce the chances of secondary reviews
  
• You may be required to attend an in-person interview in Canada before your PR card is approved, so if you leave Canada before then, it may be difficult to get back in (especially if your PR card has expired)
  
• Also remember in this context that the residency calculation will become a rolling five year calculation following the five year anniversary of your landing - which means if you have spent any days in Canada shortly after landing, these will then no longer count (and you may fall short again)
• You may be examined for your compliance with the residency obligation every time you enter Canada
• Only days as a PR count for the purposes of fulfilling the residency obligation

Thanks for the details.

Can you elaborate on the 9 months? Is it 9 months to the date? For example, my PR Card expires on the 19th of March 2021. If I apply on the 18th of June 2020 (assuming I have >= 730 days of residency), this leaves just about 9 months before the card expires. How can I properly calculate the math here?

Additionally, do you know if residence in Canada needs to be a permanent address or would rentals such as hotels, Air BnBs, etc. suffice?

 

[Besram]

Thanks for the details.

Can you elaborate on the 9 months? Is it 9 months to the date? For example, my PR Card expires on the 19th of March 2021. If I apply on the 18th of June 2020 (assuming I have >= 730 days of residency), this leaves just about 9 months before the card expires. How can I properly calculate the math here?

Additionally, do you know if residence in Canada needs to be a permanent address or would rentals such as hotels, Air BnBs, etc. suffice?

I can only go by what the link says that I posted:
"If your permanent resident (PR) card is expired or will expire in less than 9 months, you can apply for a new card."

So yes, I assume it is to the date. This would mean you could not apply before June 19, 2020.

Any presence in Canada counts. It does not matter where you have been staying, as long as you can conclusively prove that you have been in Canada during that time.

Remember, the onus to prove that you have met the residency obligation is always on you.

 

[JJN]

I can only go by what the link says that I posted:
"If your permanent resident (PR) card is expired or will expire in less than 9 months, you can apply for a new card."

So yes, I assume it is to the date. This would mean you could not apply before June 19, 2020.

Any presence in Canada counts. It does not matter where you have been staying, as long as you can conclusively prove that you have been in Canada during that time.

Remember, the onus to prove that you have met the residency obligation is always on you.

Thank again for the help. I think we will have to wait until a little later (maybe Sept) in order eliminate some of the risk, and build up some more days in the country.

I have a related question about my partner. He has been in Canada for the same amount of time as me, but for three of the five years, he has been travelling full-time with me as I work online. Do you think that this will go against him when renewing his PR? How should we proceed with this?

Thanks.

 

[Besram]

Thank again for the help. I think we will have to wait until a little later (maybe Sept) in order eliminate some of the risk, and build up some more days in the country.

I have a related question about my partner. He has been in Canada for the same amount of time as me, but for three of the five years, he has been travelling full-time with me as I work online. Do you think that this will go against him when renewing his PR? How should we proceed with this?

Thanks.

Just make sure you get to Canada such that you can still accumulate the required 730 days before the 5 year anniversary of you landing.

In regards to your partner, I’m not sure if I understand. The same residency obligation will apply to him, so if he can demonstrate that he has been in the country for that amount of time, he shouldn’t have any issues.

 

[dpenabill]

I have a related question about my partner. He has been in Canada for the same amount of time as me, but for three of the five years, he has been travelling full-time with me as I work online. Do you think that this will go against him when renewing his PR? How should we proceed with this?

Not sure I follow how his time in Canada differs from yours. In any event, Residency Obligation compliance is personal to the individual PR. How his application for a new PR card goes will depend on HIS particular facts and circumstances, HIS calculation of RO compliance. What you have been doing, where you have been, for whatever periods of time, will have no influence on his PR card application.

REMINDER: There is NO renewing PR status. A PR continues to be a PR even though the PR card expires. For some this lasts for years and many years.

PR can be terminated. And failing to comply with the RO is one of the grounds for which that can happen.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ​

A Further Observation As to the Previous Posts:

PRs get credit applying toward compliance with the Residency Obligation for any days left on the calendar between the date the calculation is done and the fifth year anniversary of landing.

A PR applying for a new PR card prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing does not need to wait to make that application long enough to have been present in Canada 730 days since landing, as long as there are enough days left until the fifth year anniversary to make up the difference.

It is also important to remember that for PR card applications the date the application is made does not definitively fix the time period for calculating compliance with the RO. It is not like applying for citizenship, where the date of the application definitively fixes the eligibility period during which the applicant needs to have been present in Canada the required number of days.

In particular, days the PR is IN Canada after applying continue to count towards RO compliance.

And days outside Canada continue to count as days absent from Canada. Which means a PR who is in compliance the day the PR card application is made can still lose PR status if the PR goes abroad and is later no longer in compliance . . . be that on a day the PR is returning to Canada, a day the PR is called in for an interview (including counter check interview for obtaining a new PR card), or a day the PR applies for a PR Travel Document in order to return to Canada, even if this is to retrieve a newly issued PR card.

The precise calculation can be complicated some relative to days falling out of the five year calculation period (for those who have been a PR for more than five years).

 

[JJN]

Not sure I follow how his time in Canada differs from yours. In any event, Residency Obligation compliance is personal to the individual PR. How his application for a new PR card goes will depend on HIS particular facts and circumstances, HIS calculation of RO compliance. What you have been doing, where you have been, for whatever periods of time, will have no influence on his PR card application.

I guess for this component, I was mostly concerned that my partner has not being employed in Canada for the last few years, but I guess that doesn't matter as long as he has the right number of RO days.

A PR applying for a new PR card prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing does not need to wait to make that application long enough to have been present in Canada 730 days since landing, as long as there are enough days left until the fifth year anniversary to make up the difference.

It is also important to remember that for PR card applications the date the application is made does not definitively fix the time period for calculating compliance with the RO. It is not like applying for citizenship, where the date of the application definitively fixes the eligibility period during which the applicant needs to have been present in Canada the required number of days.

In particular, days the PR is IN Canada after applying continue to count towards RO compliance.

And days outside Canada continue to count as days absent from Canada. Which means a PR who is in compliance the day the PR card application is made can still lose PR status if the PR goes abroad and is later no longer in compliance . . . be that on a day the PR is returning to Canada, a day the PR is called in for an interview (including counter check interview for obtaining a new PR card), or a day the PR applies for a PR Travel Document in order to return to Canada, even if this is to retrieve a newly issued PR card.

The precise calculation can be complicated some relative to days falling out of the five year calculation period (for those who have been a PR for more than five years).

I'm a little confused by this. If the days still count (if I stay in Canada) or don't count (should I leave Canada) after I apply to renew the PR card, how can I prove this? Will data be requested from me to prove this?

If, for example, I have exactly 730 days built up and submit my application 30 days before the 15th of November (the 5 year anniversary of my landing), wouldn't that be enough, or are you saying that the 730 days may not be 100% valid here (it may change depending on other factors)?

Also, how common is the interview? Is this something I should wait around for? I was planning on leaving Canada for a few months after I apply, but I'm not sure what the best option is.

 

[Besram]

I guess for this component, I was mostly concerned that my partner has not being employed in Canada for the last few years, but I guess that doesn't matter as long as he has the right number of RO days.

Correct.

I'm a little confused by this. If the days still count (if I stay in Canada) or don't count (should I leave Canada) after I apply to renew the PR card, how can I prove this? Will data be requested from me to prove this?

If, for example, I have exactly 730 days built up and submit my application 30 days before the 15th of November (the 5 year anniversary of my landing), wouldn't that be enough, or are you saying that the 730 days may not be 100% valid here (it may change depending on other factors)?

Also, how common is the interview? Is this something I should wait around for? I was planning on leaving Canada for a few months after I apply, but I'm not sure what the best option is.

What dpenabill means is that you may be examined at various points in time. In other words, you may meet the residency obligation at the time of application, but if you then leave Canada and you are required to attend an interview a few months later, you must ensure that you meet the residency obligation at that point in time as well.

Since timelines of PR card approval can be unpredictable, it can be difficult to predict if you will have enough days in Canada at all times if you plan on traveling between submitting your application and its approval.

 

[JJN]

Correct.




What dpenabill means is that you may be examined at various points in time. In other words, you may meet the residency obligation at the time of application, but if you then leave Canada and you are required to attend an interview a few months later, you must ensure that you meet the residency obligation at that point in time as well.

Since timelines of PR card approval can be unpredictable, it can be difficult to predict if you will have enough days in Canada at all times if you plan on traveling between submitting your application and its approval.

Thanks for the clarity.

When I check the processing times for a renewed PR card, I see that it's currently 27 days. I completely get that this can vary for many reasons, but let's assume that I submit a perfect application (if that's even possible), and let's assume it's 40 days before my 5th anniversary, under normal circumstances, and the processing times at the time are 27 days, and I have just submitted my application, do you think that this would be enough (if I left the country right afterwards)?

I suppose, it can be difficult for you or anyone to answer, because it's hard to predict what will occur after the application submission. They may request more data, etc. I assume the safest bet is to stay for a while after I submit the application, and in your personal opinion and with your experience, what do you think would be a good number of days to stay in Canada after I submit the application? This will help me plan the future. I am willing to stay put for a while if that is needed, but it would really help to understand how long would suffice.

I am wondering if any of you out there have a similar experience with the 'purgatory' period after the application has been submitted. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

TY

Ref: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/check-processing-times.html

 

[JJN]

Additionally, I can not find a lot of info on the interviews for PR renewal. Would the interviews have to be in a specific place?

For example, I plan to travel in Canada from East to West. I may submit my application in Montreal, but what happens if I am in Vancouver when they request an interview. Will I have to fly back to Montreal?

 

[Besram]

Processing times are hard to predict.

You seem to have traveled a lot and you will be submitting an application where the time spent in Canada is close to the minimum. I’d say there is a chance that your application may be subjected to additional scrutiny to ensure that you have met the RO. This may blow out the processing time.

The safest option, but maybe not the most convenient to you, would be to stay in Canada until you have your new PR card.

Also, it’s important to point out that you must continue to have 730 days in the 5 years immediately prior to any dealings with immigration or border officials. This includes when you attempt to re-enter Canada.

I have not gone through an interview myself, but my understanding is that the interview will typically be scheduled close to the residential address you provide. You might be able to update your address, but this may or may not cause further delays if your case has to be transferred to a different office.

 

[JJN]

Processing times are hard to predict.

You seem to have traveled a lot and you will be submitting an application where the time spent in Canada is close to the minimum. I’d say there is a chance that your application may be subjected to additional scrutiny to ensure that you have met the RO. This may blow out the processing time.

The safest option, but maybe not the most convenient to you, would be to stay in Canada until you have your new PR card.

Also, it’s important to point out that you must continue to have 730 days in the 5 years immediately prior to any dealings with immigration or border officials. This includes when you attempt to re-enter Canada.

I have not gone through an interview myself, but my understanding is that the interview will typically be scheduled close to the residential address you provide. You might be able to update your address, but this may or may not cause further delays if your case has to be transferred to a different office.

Yes. I have been travelling with no address for the last 2.5 years. Additionally, I have no fixed address in Canada. I will be using my cousin's address. Is this permitted?

I intend on returning to Canada in June of this year. If I apply in June, I will be applying with an RO just above 730 (maybe between 730-740). I will have to be in Europe for July and August this year, but in September I can return to Canada and work up more days. I guess my options right now are:

1. Return to Canada in June and apply with just above 730.
2. Return to Canada in June and build up just above 730, then return again in September and work up more days, then apply a little later, but before the 15th of November (the 5th anniversary of landing). If I applied on Oct 1st, assuming I was in Canada from the 1st of Sept, that would lead to an approx. RO of 760-770.
3.Return to Canada in September (and not in June), and build up the remaining days to 730, or a little more, then apply before the 5th anniversary of my landing.

None of these options seem perfectly appealing, and are rather complicated with respect to travel plans. It's hard to know really.

What do you think about this situation? I'm not really up for spending a winter in Canada, but if I need to, I will do so in order to ensure that my application is processed and approved.

TY.

 

[JJN]

A supplementary question here could be related to the definition of cutting-it-close.

Do we have any knowledge here in the forums about thresholds for cutting it close? For example, if I gain 760 days, would this be a safe option for lesser scrutiny?

I get that this is subjective on so many levels, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

 

[Besram]

I don’t think the threshold of 730 days is the only indicator for whether or not you will be subjected to additional examination or a secondary review.

What also matters is how easily you can prove your presence in Canada. Typical documents include tax returns, pay stubs, rental contracts and payments, passport stamps, etc.

It’s fair to say that your situation is not the standard, ideal situation for swift processing. You must realise that most people actually live in Canada year round, and can probably more easily prove their ongoing residence here. Therefore, average processing times are heavily skewed by those people, and not by the relatively few outliers that go into secondary review.

So, ultimately, I would expect the worst in terms of processing time and hope for the the best.

Whatever you do, you need to keep on top of your residence days at all times, especially once you are past 5 years post-landing. From this day forward, the calculation is on a five year rolling basis. This means you may not actually accrue additional days during certain periods even if you are in Canada, but only keep your number of days at the same level. This is because days you spent in Canada five years earlier start falling outside the rolling 5-year window. It can get complicated. Best to maintain a spreadsheet that not only looks backwards, but also forward and allows you to predict your compliance in the future, depending on where you expect to be.

Probably also worthwhile following this thread:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/prc-permanent-resident-card-renewal-timeline-2019.609926/