PR Card has 6 years validity.

[mendhi08]

Hi everyone, hope you are all doing well and safe from this pandemic. Im a newbie and I would like to ask anyone if you have the same status/concern as mine.

So here's my story, I was sponsored by my dad to become a permanent resident here in Canada with my mom,
A.) I became landed PR May 10, 2016, (I was 20 years old at that time fresh college graduate from my country as an art student)
B.) I left Canada August 30, 2016, (I went back to my country to pursue my dream job since my bachelor degree is not yet valid in Canada, my parents was also not in good terms even before we came and my two sisters where left back in our country, so its just me my mom and my dad who's here in Canada, imagine the stress and pressure i felt being torn between parents who's not in good terms, thats one of the reason i just decided to return back home)
C.) Before we left Canada (last August 30,2016) we received a letter from CPC (not sure where) that our photo for PR card got refuse due to sizing issue and needed to be resend. We resend it just before we left, my dad is the one who received our PR card and just gave it to us when he went back to our country to visit.
D.) When i received my PR card, it states there that it will be expiring on Feb 01, 2022
E.) Me not knowing how being a Canadian resident works, stayed in my country from August 30, 2016 - December 25, 2019. It is 1213 days from the start date to the end date, end date included. Or 3 years, 3 months, 26 days including the end date. (it was hard for me to comeback since we don't have enough funds, and my dad won't support us anymore)
F.) I'm currently here in Canada, with the help of my husband, I manage to re-enter without any questions upon arriving.

so my question is...
> where to count the 5 years permanent residency obligation? (some said it was from the expiry then count backwards, some said upon being a landed PR *im confuse)
> If i were to count it from the expiry of my card i still have the 2 years and will still meet the 730 days to maintain my PR status.
> But if i were to count it from the day i became PR, then i overstayed outside Canada for 3 months, 26 days.
> if so, what consequences do i have to face when renewing my PR?
> I also recently got married and submitted a spousal sponsorship for my husband, would my PR status affect this application?

Hope i can get some answers. Thanks and be safe always!

 

[steaky]

You count from the day you landed til the date you make the PR renewal application.

Since you probably don't meet RO at the time you submit the spouse sponsorship application, there might be complication to your PR status affecting this application.

 

[scylla]

Hi everyone, hope you are all doing well and safe from this pandemic. Im a newbie and I would like to ask anyone if you have the same status/concern as mine.

So here's my story, I was sponsored by my dad to become a permanent resident here in Canada with my mom,
A.) I became landed PR May 10, 2016, (I was 20 years old at that time fresh college graduate from my country as an art student)
B.) I left Canada August 30, 2016, (I went back to my country to pursue my dream job since my bachelor degree is not yet valid in Canada, my parents was also not in good terms even before we came and my two sisters where left back in our country, so its just me my mom and my dad who's here in Canada, imagine the stress and pressure i felt being torn between parents who's not in good terms, thats one of the reason i just decided to return back home)
C.) Before we left Canada (last August 30,2016) we received a letter from CPC (not sure where) that our photo for PR card got refuse due to sizing issue and needed to be resend. We resend it just before we left, my dad is the one who received our PR card and just gave it to us when he went back to our country to visit.
D.) When i received my PR card, it states there that it will be expiring on Feb 01, 2022
E.) Me not knowing how being a Canadian resident works, stayed in my country from August 30, 2016 - December 25, 2019. It is 1213 days from the start date to the end date, end date included. Or 3 years, 3 months, 26 days including the end date. (it was hard for me to comeback since we don't have enough funds, and my dad won't support us anymore)
F.) I'm currently here in Canada, with the help of my husband, I manage to re-enter without any questions upon arriving.

so my question is...
> where to count the 5 years permanent residency obligation? (some said it was from the expiry then count backwards, some said upon being a landed PR *im confuse)
> If i were to count it from the expiry of my card i still have the 2 years and will still meet the 730 days to maintain my PR status.
> But if i were to count it from the day i became PR, then i overstayed outside Canada for 3 months, 26 days.
> if so, what consequences do i have to face when renewing my PR?
> I also recently got married and submitted a spousal sponsorship for my husband, would my PR status affect this application?

Hope i can get some answers. Thanks and be safe always!

You need to consider withdrawing your husband's spousal sponsorship application. You don't qualify to sponsor him since you don't meet the residency requirement. If you returned to Canada December 25, 2019, you'll need to wait until December 25, 2021 before you'll qualify to sponsor your husband. Trying to sponsor your husband now puts you at risk of losing your own PR status.

 

[mendhi08]

Thanks for the responses @scylla & @steaky!
Before we submitted our sponsorship application, we seek advise from an the experts and a visa advisor, (btw my husband works at a visa processing company) we ask them if we can still process my husband papers even if i haven't been in Canada for 2 years up, and they said that it is possible, there are some cases they handled before who sponsored their spouses just a year of being in Canada and still got approved. Also as per reading the eligibility to sponsor, i've research all through out cicc website and can't seem to find something that states about meeting your residency requirement to be eligible to sponsor. If there is, can you send me a link so that we can show it to our visa advisor. thanks!

 

[Bs65]

See here the section things might affect you where clearly states that if you have failed your RO then an application would not start processing until a decision on that situation has been made which could worst case may result in a review of your status.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5289-sponsor-your-spouse-common-law-partner-conjugal-partner-dependent-child-complete-guide.html#things


Might be good to clarify the statement about applications approved with a sponsor being only a year in Canada whether that implies a new PR resident for a year still able to meet the RO or someone who has only been in Canada a year in 5 years so failed their RO, both different scenarios.

Note everyone here is just a member of public same as you so if you have professional advice that you are happy with then go with that.

 

[dpenabill]

. . . sponsored by my dad to become a permanent resident . . .
A.) I became landed PR May 10, 2016,
D.) PR card. . . expiring on Feb 01, 2022
E.) . . . stayed in my country from August 30, 2016 - December 25, 2019.
F.) I'm currently here in Canada . . . I manage to re-enter without any questions upon arriving.

so my question is...
> where to count the 5 years permanent residency obligation? (some said it was from the expiry then count backwards, some said upon being a landed PR *im confuse)
> If i were to count it from the expiry of my card i still have the 2 years and will still meet the 730 days to maintain my PR status.
> But if i were to count it from the day i became PR, then i overstayed outside Canada for 3 months, 26 days.
> if so, what consequences do i have to face when renewing my PR?
> I also recently got married and submitted a spousal sponsorship for my husband, would my PR status affect this application?

I mostly concur in cautions in comments by others.

Additional details and long explanation:

The expiration date of your PR card is, mostly, NOT relevant. It is NOT at all relevant for purposes of a formal calculation of compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

That said, it probably helped when you arrived at the PoE, just because the appearance (first card still valid for two plus years), so the screening PoE official did not see cause to question you more closely about your absences from Canada. IF (it did not happen, but it could have), IF the PoE officials formally examined your compliance with the RO, the expiration date on the PR card would have had NO relevance. As others have said, what matters is date of landing and number of days absent from Canada since then.

Since you have already been absent from Canada for more than 1095 days since the date of landing, you are NOT in compliance with the RO. You are in breach of the Residency Obligation and you meet the definition of "Inadmissible." Since the PR RO is not self-enforcing and you are IN Canada, you are OK unless you do something to trigger a RO compliance examination.

You have done something which MIGHT, not necessarily will, but very well MIGHT trigger a RO compliance examination. You applied to sponsor a spouse. To be eligible to sponsor a spouse you must have valid PR status. In the process of evaluating your eligibility to sponsor a spouse, IRCC will review the information you provide in the sponsorship forms. Without revisiting those forms I forget what information is currently included, but as I recall at the least the sponsor gives more than enough details about their life which will likely reveal, at least in part, how much you have been outside Canada. Especially for a PR who has so recently returned to Canada as you have.

That is, your sponsorship application will probably make an IRCC official aware that you are not in compliance with the RO. The question, then, is whether that official decides to conduct a formal examination of your compliance with the RO.

As the full guide states, referenced and linked above by @Bs65, if your application triggers an examination into whether you have "failed to respect your residency conditions," the sponsorship application will be suspended until there is a final decision regarding that.

Technically you are eligible to sponsor despite the breach of the RO, BUT that is ONLY as long as you are NOT issued a Removal Order. As noted, your application to be a sponsor MIGHT trigger an examination of your compliance with the RO. If that happens, that will, in turn, result in a determination you have breached the RO and are inadmissible. This in turn will lead to the issuance of a Removal Order UNLESS you present (in the course of the RO examination) sufficient H&C reasons to persuade the IRCC you deserve to keep PR status despite the breach of the RO. If you are issued a Removal Order, that specifically makes you NOT eligible to sponsor a spouse. This is prescribed by Regulation 133(1)(c) in the IRPA Regulations. It is also stated in information published by IRCC at https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/family-sponsorship/spouse-partner-children/eligibility.html

You have breached the RO by more than a hundred days. That is not a small breach. But also not a huge breach for a new immigrant. Anyone who claims to know how IRCC will handle this is probably, mostly, guessing. Rather risky to hang the future of your status in Canada on a guess.

I cannot guess.

Which leads to the "visa advisor."

First and foremost, MAKE SURE the VISA ADVISOR IS AN AUTHORIZED IMMIGRATION CONSULTANT or REPRESENTATIVE, as authorized by Canadian authorities. See https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigration-citizenship-representative/choose/authorized.html

I do not like guessing, but regarding this I will guess. My guess is your visa advisor is not an authorized representative. This is my guess because it seems (should be) UNLIKELY an authorized representative would advise you to proceed with the sponsorship application given the RISK it could result in the loss of your PR status. I am just guessing. I could be wrong.

But, if the visa advisor is NOT an authorized representative, authorized by Canada, END that relationship SOONER rather than later.

Most PRs sponsoring a spouse do NOT need a representative, advisor, or lawyer. But since you have already made an application, and you are in breach of the RO, IF the Visa Advisor is NOT an authorized representative, authorized by Canadian immigration, if you can afford to see an immigration lawyer, a licensed Canadian immigration lawyer, do that.

If you cannot afford a Canadian lawyer, the safest approach will be to withdraw the sponsorship application, but there is no guarantee that will keep IRCC from proceeding with a RO examination.

THUS . . .

On one hand, withdrawing the application might NOT save you IF IRCC has already identified and referred your application for further processing in regards to conducting a RO examination.

On the other hand, perhaps IRCC was not going to conduct an examination of your RO compliance and allow the sponsorship to proceed.

You have already gambled. Whether to continue with the gamble is a bet YOU must decide to make or not make. But make no mistake, what is at stake is your status to remain in Canada. You will NOT be in compliance with the RO until December 25, 2021. You remain at risk for a RO examination until you have stayed in Canada until then.

AND yeah, sorry, yes, this is very likely to put some serious pressure on a young relatively recently married couple. Not an easy situation.

 

[armoured]

we ask them if we can still process my husband papers even if i haven't been in Canada for 2 years up, and they said that it is possible, there are some cases they handled before who sponsored their spouses just a year of being in Canada and still got approved.

To clarify this point: a PR who arrives (lands) today is in compliance with the residency obligation. So if the case your consultant referred to was someone who landed and stayed a year, it's completely irrelevant to your situation.

The difference is that for "if they have been a permanent resident for less than five years, that they will be able to meet the residency obligation in respect of the five-year period immediately after they became a permanent resident." (Note the date used for 'became a permanent resident' is the date of landing). In more simple terms, the days remaining in the first five year period 'count' for RO compliance purposes.

This is direct from the relevant law: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/i-2.5/section-28.html

Note this does mean that you are given the benefit of these days from now until the five year anniversary of your first landing (i.e. until May 2021), but if I read correctly, this still does not get you to the required 730 days.

It's unfortunate in that if you had returned several months earlier in 2019 (if I've understood your dates), you would technically be in compliance. But that doesn't help your situation now.

 

[mendhi08]

Thank you so much for your kind answer @dpenabill , this really help clear all my confusion.

When I arrived here in Canada, to be specific in Alberta, there are no clear instructions on how the PR works and me being young and immature at that time, thought it was ok to leave, i was also cultured shock and got frustrated on how everything works in here, and without proper guidance it pushed me to decided to go back to my home country instead. I'm still lucky that on the second time i decided to comeback some of my relatives and good people helped us to start again.

Still praying and hoping that IRCC was not going to conduct an examination of my RO compliance and allow my sponsorship to proceed. I'm scared that the history will repeat itself, my dad took so long to sponsor us that it came to the point that my parents relationship didn't work out anymore.


Still if things didn't work out as we planned then we'll just accept it.

Btw. do you have any idea how much would it cost to hire a Canadian lawyer, and how to find one, cause i might be needing one when i renew my PR card.

Also what's the best time for me to renew it, if IRCC did not check on my RO, i was planning to renew it on December 2021, since my card is expiring on Feb 2022, so by then i have rendered at least 2 years?

 

[YVR123]

Thank you so much for your kind answer @dpenabill , this really help clear all my confusion.

When I arrived here in Canada, to be specific in Alberta, there are no clear instructions on how the PR works and me being young and immature at that time, thought it was ok to leave, i was also cultured shock and got frustrated on how everything works in here, and without proper guidance it pushed me to decided to go back to my home country instead. I'm still lucky that on the second time i decided to comeback some of my relatives and good people helped us to start again.

Still praying and hoping that IRCC was not going to conduct an examination of my RO compliance and allow my sponsorship to proceed. I'm scared that the history will repeat itself, my dad took so long to sponsor us that it came to the point that my parents relationship didn't work out anymore.


Still if things didn't work out as we planned then we'll just accept it.

Btw. do you have any idea how much would it cost to hire a Canadian lawyer, and how to find one, cause i might be needing one when i renew my PR card.

Also what's the best time for me to renew it, if IRCC did not check on my RO, i was planning to renew it on December 2021, since my card is expiring on Feb 2022, so by then i have rendered at least 2 years?

You CANNOT renew your PR card without meeting the RO. They ask you to check and supply the proof of meeting RO when you apply for renewal. There is no chance of approval just in case they missed checking your RO. It's the basic requirement for PR card renewal. Hirig a lawyer will not make a difference.

You can stay in Canada with an expired PR card. But you cannot travel back to Canada (need PRTD but you won't meet the requirement to get one) if you leave the country with an expired card.

I noticed that you have ingored advice to withdraw you spousal application. You cannot sponsor someone if you do not meet RO.

btw you were not a kid. You became an adult shortly after you moved out of the country. If you wanted to retain your PR, you should have researched on the condition that you have to meet.

 

[dpenabill]

Btw. do you have any idea how much would it cost to hire a Canadian lawyer, and how to find one, cause i might be needing one when i renew my PR card.

Also what's the best time for me to renew it, if IRCC did not check on my RO, i was planning to renew it on December 2021, since my card is expiring on Feb 2022, so by then i have rendered at least 2 years?

I cannot offer personal advice.

You should NOT need a lawyer to renew your PR card. No rush to renew your PR card as long as you stay in Canada. Main thing is to NOT do something that will trigger a RO examination UNTIL you have been here two full years. No travel outside Canada. No PR card application.

As I noted, if your "visa advisor" is NOT an authorized representative, if you can afford a lawyer, NOW would be the time to get one. So the lawyer can go over all the paperwork and help you sort things out.

Or, if your sponsorship application triggers a RO examination, that would be the time to see a lawyer. Note, there is a real risk this application will trigger a RO examination, so you should be prepared for that. At the least, figure out how to make a H&C case for why you should be allowed to keep PR status and live in Canada despite failing to meet the RO, and be prepared to make that case if called for an interview (would probably be by telephone, due to covid, and covid may be what saves you, if it discourages IRCC from pursuing a RO examination for now).

Canadian lawyers are expensive. Probably at least $300 to $500 just for a consultation (free consultations are worth about what you pay, nothing). Much more to hire one to represent you.

Maybe others can suggest ways to find a good lawyer. I do not have much to offer regarding that.

 

[steaky]

Btw. do you have any idea how much would it cost to hire a Canadian lawyer, and how to find one, cause i might be needing one when i renew my PR card.

How do you find this forum? This forum is owned by a law firm.

 

[mendhi08]

You CANNOT renew your PR card without meeting the RO. They ask you to check and supply the proof of meeting RO when you apply for renewal. There is no chance of approval just in case they missed checking your RO. It's the basic requirement for PR card renewal. Hirig a lawyer will not make a difference.

You can stay in Canada with an expired PR card. But you cannot travel back to Canada (need PRTD but you won't meet the requirement to get one) if you leave the country with an expired card.

I noticed that you have ignored advice to withdraw you spousal application. You cannot sponsor someone if you do not meet RO.

btw you were not a kid. You became an adult shortly after you moved out of the country. If you wanted to retain your PR, you should have researched on the condition that you have to meet.

Hi, i do did some research about how to retain my PR, but got pretty confident because my PR card states that it was expiring FEB 2022, and i was in Canada DEC 2019, so i thought i could still render 2 years before my PR card expire. Later did i know that it should count from the day i landed, which got me really confused. But now i was inform and enlighten because of the help of this forum.

We already started the process for the spousal, and i think IRCC is already looking at it by this time. If that triggers my RO examination, we might just go with it and just try to appeal, and if nothing goes well, then maybe i'll just renounce my PR status. I think there's no point in staying here without any family with me. (my mom is already a senior and she might just go back to our home country if things didn't work out) I might just accept it and try again if ever given the chance.

 

[mendhi08]

How do you find this forum? This forum is owned by a law firm.

oh yeah, i just realize that, sorry, i found this upon searching about the status of spousal sponsorship during covid.

 

[mendhi08]

I cannot offer personal advice.

You should NOT need a lawyer to renew your PR card. No rush to renew your PR card as long as you stay in Canada. Main thing is to NOT do something that will trigger a RO examination UNTIL you have been here two full years. No travel outside Canada. No PR card application.

As I noted, if your "visa advisor" is NOT an authorized representative, if you can afford a lawyer, NOW would be the time to get one. So the lawyer can go over all the paperwork and help you sort things out.

Or, if your sponsorship application triggers a RO examination, that would be the time to see a lawyer. Note, there is a real risk this application will trigger a RO examination, so you should be prepared for that. At the least, figure out how to make a H&C case for why you should be allowed to keep PR status and live in Canada despite failing to meet the RO, and be prepared to make that case if called for an interview (would probably be by telephone, due to covid, and covid may be what saves you, if it discourages IRCC from pursuing a RO examination for now).

Canadian lawyers are expensive. Probably at least $300 to $500 just for a consultation (free consultations are worth about what you pay, nothing). Much more to hire one to represent you.

Maybe others can suggest ways to find a good lawyer. I do not have much to offer regarding that.

You are so kind in answering my question, thank you so much!

 

[canuck78]

You also mentioned that you only got back to Canada thanks to your husband. I just want to clarify that you also can’t be receiving any social assistance to sponsor a spouse. You’ll also need to show that you’ll be able to support yourselves without government help. It’s unclear whether you are working but thought I should mention this.