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Police Certificate

ibry

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Guys i am in the same boat. I came to Canada as a PR in Aug 2014. So now I am eligible to apply for Citizenship.

And I read the 4 yr Police certificate rule. And I was like 'Oh man!' cause I know it is lengthy process to get Police certiticate from home. You have to bribe officers or else they won't release your documents etc etc.

But in the end I thought to myself "Is there any other way?". I would say NO.

So just get on with it, and start the process of getting your Police certificate. ;)

Same here you have to bribe and at risk of them stealing your passport information and Seling. Ours is faster can get in a week but you keep bribing till the officer feels like it!
 

iamroth

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There is no rule stating you should submit a PCC for the period of time prior becoming a PR. That rule is in place for people with student visa, working visa, temporary resident status etc, because they did not went through the same background check as a person who applied for immigration from his native country.
I work in law enforcement and during my hiring process they took into consideration the background check done while I was going through the immigration process. For security check purposes I was not requested to submit a PCC because the one I submitted during my immigration process was still valid and covered the specific period of time.
Umm ya we submitted because it was required not only from my home country, but also from USA cause we spent time there too.

All i was saying, the PCC i got in 2014, i am going to get the exact type in 2017..the 3 years in the middle i was in Canada. So asking for PCC from Back home, is like asking for the same document twice only diffrent date.

That being said i have started my process of getting PCC.
 

Patrik BC

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Oct 13, 2017
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There is NO support for this in the context of a citizenship application. Your experience in the hiring process for law enforcement, in particular, is NOT relevant to the citizenship application process.

Applicants should read and follow the instructions in the form and guide. They clearly state that those who have spent 183 or more days in another country within the preceding four years need to check "yes" when responding to item 10.b. A simple calculation. The FAQs confirm this.

If the applicant checks "yes" the applicant needs to either include the police certificate or give an explanation. If the applicant does not do one or the other, the application will most likely be returned to the applicant as incomplete.

An applicant who concurs in what you propose could check "no" and add a supplemental page to the application, explaining that the reason for the "no" check is that the applicant has not spent 183 days in another country since landing and becoming a PR, and see how that goes. It might pass.

But just checking "no" could be construed to be a misrepresentation if the applicant has, in fact, spent 183 or more days in another country within the FOUR years that count. Checking "yes" and not providing a certificate or explanation will render the application incomplete.

BUT it is true that there is NO rule, as such, that citizenship applicants should submit a PCC for the time prior to becoming a PR. In fact there is NO rule that any applicants must submit a PCC at all.

But to make a complete application, to have an application for citizenship processed, IRCC can and does require some applicants to submit a PCC upfront, with the application.

That is, the rules are that an applicant is prohibited from a grant of citizenship if the applicant has been convicted of an offence in another country within the preceding four years, and that IRCC has broad discretion in adopting policy and practices to enforce such requirements, including authority to require applicants provide certain information to allow IRCC to assess the applicant's qualifications, and to require applicants meeting certain criteria to submit a PCC UPFRONT with the application. It is pursuant to this authority that IRCC requires applicants to declare whether they have spent a total of 183 or more days in a country within the preceding four years, and likewise to require any applicant who has to submit a PCC upfront with the application. Thus of course IRCC can also waive this, generally or individually. An applicant can ask for such a waiver, in effect, by submitting an explanation in one of the multiple ways I describe above.




Most of the IRCC website information about police certificates is relevant for visa applications rather than citizenship applications. The information about how to obtain a police certificate is the same for both types. But who must submit a police certificate is not the same for citizenship applicants as it is for visa applicants.

In particular, in the citizenship context it is NOT about residing or living in another country. The criteria for who must submit a certificate is based on days present in a country. In particular, a citizenship applicant could be required to submit a certificate from a country where the applicant NEVER LIVED. A person who regularly goes to the U.S. Friday to Sunday, twice a month, and never spends more than a couple whole days in the U.S. at a time, will nonetheless need to provide a U.S. police certificate (3 days X twice/month X 4 years = way more than 183 days).

Last I looked, there was no IRCC information about how current the police certificate must be for a citizenship application. But the information for visa applicants offers some guidance. Thus, a certificate that is less than six months old should suffice even if the applicant has returned to that country within the last six months. A certificate more recent than the last time the applicant was present in that country should suffice. Thus an older certificate may work. But who has such an original police certificate to submit? (Note that one of the alternatives I have discussed, for the applicant who came to Canada less than four years ago, who was in his or her home country for more than 183 days in the preceding four years, but none of those days have been since coming to Canada, could try explaining this rather than submit a police certificate . . . but how that will actually go is uncertain . . . worst case scenario is the application is returned and the applicant will have an opportunity to re-submit it with a police certificate, but IRCC might accept this.)
Regarding the law enforcement hiring process I was referring to the security background check because that's the purpose of the PCC : searches the police data base to see if you did or did not commit any crimes in a specific period of time. You stated that the PCC people submitted during the immigration process expired which is totally false. A PPC cannot expire but it can become obsolete due to the time frame that was issued but it is not the case here.

Anyways this is my opinion and I don't want to influence anybody to follow the same path that I did.

I submitted my application without the PCC. However given the fact that the application form requires you not to leave any gaps in your eligibility period, which takes you 5 years back from the date you are applying, I had to fill out all the information prior to becoming a PR.
 

spyfy

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Regarding the law enforcement hiring process I was referring to the security background check because that's the purpose of the PCC : searches the police data base to see if you did or did not commit any crimes in a specific period of time. You stated that the PCC people submitted during the immigration process expired which is totally false. A PPC cannot expire but it can become obsolete due to the time frame that was issued but it is not the case here.

Anyways this is my opinion and I don't want to influence anybody to follow the same path that I did.

I submitted my application without the PCC. However given the fact that the application form requires you not to leave any gaps in your eligibility period, which takes you 5 years back from the date you are applying, I had to fill out all the information prior to becoming a PR.
You did tick "Yes" for question 10b, though, right? I mean you were in another country for more than 183 days in the past four years.

So either:
  • You ticked "Yes" and then, as the form states you must provide a police certificate.
  • Or you ticked "No" which means you picked the wrong answer.
So in either case: Godspeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the application is returned to you.
 

itsmyid

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Jul 26, 2012
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You did tick "Yes" for question 10b, though, right? I mean you were in another country for more than 183 days in the past four years.

So either:
  • You ticked "Yes" and then, as the form states you must provide a police certificate.
  • Or you ticked "No" which means you picked the wrong answer.
So in either case: Godspeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the application is returned to you.
It won’t matter what you say ... just a few weeks / months ago after C-6 passing but before the implementation quite a few people were very certain about things like
- PC requirement will be changed to 3 years
- Pre-PR credit will be given regardless whether it was 5 years ago or not
- application fee will be reduced
- there would be some queue to prioritize people who have stayed longer

.... now even with the new rules published , many are still in denial and will stay there for sometime
 

Patrik BC

Member
Oct 13, 2017
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You did tick "Yes" for question 10b, though, right? I mean you were in another country for more than 183 days in the past four years.

So either:
  • You ticked "Yes" and then, as the form states you must provide a police certificate.
  • Or you ticked "No" which means you picked the wrong answer.
So in either case: Godspeed, I wouldn't be surprised if the application is returned to you.
I did not check "Yes" at the question 10b. If you go to the "Help" menu at question 10b it will show you 4 examples. All examples have something in common which is the fact that IF you left Canada for more than 183 days during the last 4 years you should provide a police certificate or provide an explanation of why you can't provide a police certificate. I wasn't physically present in Canada prior to my PR so it wasn't possible for me to leave Canada for more than 183 days in order to provide a police certificate.
 

spyfy

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I did not check "Yes" at the question 10b. If you go to the "Help" menu at question 10b it will show you 4 examples. All examples have something in common which is the fact that IF you left Canada for more than 183 days during the last 4 years you should provide a police certificate or provide an explanation of why you can't provide a police certificate. I wasn't physically present in Canada prior to my PR so it wasn't possible for me to leave Canada for more than 183 days in order to provide a police certificate.
This means you misread the instructions. It is not about leaving Canada. Examples are just examples. Both the form and the actual instructions in the guide are unambiguous. They care about if you were outside Canada, there is no leaving Canada necessary. It is about a background check for the last four years no matter when you landed in Canada. The PCC requirement is based on the four-year rule according to section 22(3)(a) of the Citizenship Act which you can find here
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-6.html#docCont

As you can read there: They care what you did in the last four years, not if it was before or after your landing date.

Beyond the legalese, it also makes zero sense why the potential crimes that someone committed in the last for years shouldn't matter just because they happened before the landing date.

Again, you might be lucky and they let this slide, but it's not the correct way.

I am insisting on that so that others who are reading this thread don't copy your strategy.

PS: Even if you insist on your examples: Note that example 3 does NOT include any "leaving Canada" condition.
 

spyfy

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It won’t matter what you say ... just a few weeks / months ago after C-6 passing but before the implementation quite a few people were very certain about things like
- PC requirement will be changed to 3 years
- Pre-PR credit will be given regardless whether it was 5 years ago or not
- application fee will be reduced
- there would be some queue to prioritize people who have stayed longer

.... now even with the new rules published , many are still in denial and will stay there for sometime
Yeah you are right there is a lot of people who are in denial of the rules, don't want to go through the hassle and somehow try to rationalize why the rule that gives them that hassle doesn't make sense.
 
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ChippyBoy

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I think that it's irresponsible and unkind for anybody to be giving unsound advice in these columns, especially considering that many applicants don't have English as their first language and therefore cannot easily discriminate among these thread entries between reliable persons & stubborn nutjobs. The plain fact is that police certificates are unambiguously required for any citizenship applicant who's spent a cumulative 183 days or more in any country on Earth other than Canada during the forty-eight months prior to the date on which s/he signs her/his citizenship application. There's absolutely no point whatsoever in arguing for or against either the dumbness or the wisdom of this rule. I myself am stuck waiting for my FBI pcc, which I applied for back in mid-July once CIC/IRCC had made plain the fact that C-6's provisions that'd let me apply for Canadian citizenship would be being implemented in the Fall. Only a fool would apply sans a pcc.
 
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Patrik BC

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Oct 13, 2017
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This means you misread the instructions. It is not about leaving Canada. Examples are just examples. Both the form and the actual instructions in the guide are unambiguous. They care about if you were outside Canada, there is no leaving Canada necessary. It is about a background check for the last four years no matter when you landed in Canada. The PCC requirement is based on the four-year rule according to section 22(3)(a) of the Citizenship Act which you can find here
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/page-6.html#docCont

As you can read there: They care what you did in the last four years, not if it was before or after your landing date.

Beyond the legalese, it also makes zero sense why the potential crimes that someone committed in the last for years shouldn't matter just because they happened before the landing date.

Again, you might be lucky and they let this slide, but it's not the correct way.

I am insisting on that so that others who are reading this thread don't copy your strategy.

PS: Even if you insist on your examples: Note that example 3 does NOT include any "leaving Canada" condition.
I will try and explain this one more time because there seems to be a confusion here:
Prior to my landing in Canada which happened 3 and a half years ago I was back in my native country from where I applied for immigration. At the end of my immigration process I was requested to submit my police certificate which covers the gap of 6 months you area speaking of. After arriving in Canada I did not go anywhere so for 3 and a half year period of time I spent in Canada I do not have to provide any police certificate. So from the this point of view I am cover for the all 4 years you are talking about.

Example number 3 refers to a individual who has a status (PR, Temp visa, Worker visa, student visa) with Canada and was already living here and went outside Canada for work in Singapore for 365 days.

So as a conclusion cause I am not debating on this subject anymore : After talking to the IRCC agent who explained to me in detail the entire process I applied as a stated above.
I also stated that people should form their own opinion and I DID NOT advise anybody to follow my example and trust me the citizenship process has nothing to do with luck.
On the other hand in your reply you are stating that you try to prevent people to follow my strategy which is fine as long as you are somebody who works for CIC, IRCC or other professional agency and is qualified to advise people on taking a certain course of action with their application. I only stated my opinion.

And last but least in one of your first posts you are making the statement that people who landed in Canada less than 4 years ago are possible criminals and this statement can offend other people. I am sure that was not your intention but I would be more careful on how are you make your assumptions about people you don't know and you don't have any proof.
 

itsmyid

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Yeah you are right there is a lot of people who are in denial of the rules, don't want to go through the hassle and somehow try to rationalize why the rule that gives them that hassle doesn't make sense.
We all know the rules are not perfect and unfair to certain groups of people - but that’s life, just like many other rules out there, all of us will always be at disadvantage when it comes to some rules and gain advantage with some other rules. And to think the agent checking your file will spend extra time on your file just to understand why it is unfair to you and should make an exception is just naive... they will most likely just check against the checklist, conclude whether this envelope has all required files, and move on to the next
 
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ChippyBoy

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I will try and explain this one more time because there seems to be a confusion here:
Prior to my landing in Canada which happened 3 and a half years ago I was back in my native country from where I applied for immigration. At the end of my immigration process I was requested to submit my police certificate which covers the gap of 6 months you area speaking of. After arriving in Canada I did not go anywhere so for 3 and a half year period of time I spent in Canada I do not have to provide any police certificate. So from the this point of view I am cover for the all 4 years you are talking about.

Example number 3 refers to a individual who has a status (PR, Temp visa, Worker visa, student visa) with Canada and was already living here and went outside Canada for work in Singapore for 365 days.

So as a conclusion cause I am not debating on this subject anymore : After talking to the IRCC agent who explained to me in detail the entire process I applied as a stated above.
I also stated that people should form their own opinion and I DID NOT advise anybody to follow my example and trust me the citizenship process has nothing to do with luck.
On the other hand in your reply you are stating that you try to prevent people to follow my strategy which is fine as long as you are somebody who works for CIC, IRCC or other professional agency and is qualified to advise people on taking a certain course of action with their application. I only stated my opinion.

And last but least in one of your first posts you are making the statement that people who landed in Canada less than 4 years ago are possible criminals and this statement can offend other people. I am sure that was not your intention but I would be more careful on how are you make your assumptions about people you don't know and you don't have any proof.
Friend, you're freely electing to take a big risk in applying sans a pcc, and that's fine; but I and others think that you're wilfully flouting a specific requirement of the citizenship application instructions at this point, and so you risk having your application delayed. Best course of action for you now would be to take immediate steps to secure your pcc so that you'll have it ready to send in when CIC/IRCC write to you to request it, which one can be practically certain they will, as a kindness, instead of them returning your application to you as an incomplete.
 

jsm0085

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Bottom line: If you've been outside of Canada to any particular country for a total of 183 or more days in the last 4 years, you need a PC for that country. Ensure you are filling out the application correctly and providing the PC.
 
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Whocares

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I will try and explain this one more time because there seems to be a confusion here:
Prior to my landing in Canada which happened 3 and a half years ago I was back in my native country from where I applied for immigration. At the end of my immigration process I was requested to submit my police certificate which covers the gap of 6 months you area speaking of. After arriving in Canada I did not go anywhere so for 3 and a half year period of time I spent in Canada I do not have to provide any police certificate. So from the this point of view I am cover for the all 4 years you are talking about.

Example number 3 refers to a individual who has a status (PR, Temp visa, Worker visa, student visa) with Canada and was already living here and went outside Canada for work in Singapore for 365 days.

So as a conclusion cause I am not debating on this subject anymore : After talking to the IRCC agent who explained to me in detail the entire process I applied as a stated above.
I also stated that people should form their own opinion and I DID NOT advise anybody to follow my example and trust me the citizenship process has nothing to do with luck.
On the other hand in your reply you are stating that you try to prevent people to follow my strategy which is fine as long as you are somebody who works for CIC, IRCC or other professional agency and is qualified to advise people on taking a certain course of action with their application. I only stated my opinion.

And last but least in one of your first posts you are making the statement that people who landed in Canada less than 4 years ago are possible criminals and this statement can offend other people. I am sure that was not your intention but I would be more careful on how are you make your assumptions about people you don't know and you don't have any proof.

Many questions and requests do not make sense. However, I would say to follow the rules blindly without trying to find excuses not to submit something. If you cannot submit for any reason then write a cover letter but if you are not submitting due to time or money then I disagree with you.

I have been through this myself, I got the PCC and submitted with the application. Spyfy wants to help

After all, it's your application and you can take the risk which might sometimes work or not.
 
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Patrik BC

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Oct 13, 2017
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Friend, you're freely electing to take a big risk in applying sans a pcc, and that's fine; but I and others think that you're wilfully flouting a specific requirement of the citizenship application instructions at this point, and so you risk having your application delayed. Best course of action for you now would be to take immediate steps to secure your pcc so that you'll have it ready to send in when CIC/IRCC write to you to request it, which one can be practically certain they will, as a kindness, instead of them returning your application to you as an incomplete.
I understand and appreciate your concern but I applied after speaking with a CIC/IRCC representative. I encourage everybody to call IRCC talk to an agent, make sure you write down his name date and time you called. If you still have doubts include a small letter in your application stating that on this date and time you spoke to this agent and you were advised to (insert your issue here) or file application in this way. All calls are recorded plus you have proof. This is a governmental institution and I strongly believe that the people assigned to give advise on immigration or citizenship are trained and highly qualified to do it. I will keep my statement until I will proven wrong.