PNP - do you have to reside in Province of Nomination?

[Pippin]

I keep reading reference to this question. I don't understand how people cannot see it is clearly misrepresentation to accept a PNP nomination when they have no intention of residing in that Province.
I have done a little google research this morning and found this regarding BC. The other provinces also have guidelines.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/agreements/bc/bc-2010-annex-b.asp

5.3.4 British Columbia will maintain records with respect to the assessment of each foreign national nominated under this Annex. Subject to applicable provincial privacy legislation, Canada will be provided with access to these records for audit purposes. These records will be retained for a minimum period of six (6) years from the date of nomination.

5.3.5 Canada and British Columbia will investigate means of providing British Columbia with access to an electronic information exchange system in support of the Provincial Nominee Program.

5.3.6 British Columbia will provide monthly nomination reports to Canada.

5.3.7 Canada will provide monthly reports on the processing and granting of permanent resident status to Provincial Nominees destined to British Columbia as well as any other type of report provided to any other provinces pursuant to their Provincial Nominee agreements.

 

[JoacRy]

I keep reading reference to this question. I don't understand how people cannot see it is clearly misrepresentation to accept a PNP nomination when they have no intention of residing in that Province.
I have done a little google research this morning and found this regarding BC. The other provinces also have guidelines.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/agreements/bc/bc-2010-annex-b.asp

5.3.4 British Columbia will maintain records with respect to the assessment of each foreign national nominated under this Annex. Subject to applicable provincial privacy legislation, Canada will be provided with access to these records for audit purposes. These records will be retained for a minimum period of six (6) years from the date of nomination.

5.3.5 Canada and British Columbia will investigate means of providing British Columbia with access to an electronic information exchange system in support of the Provincial Nominee Program.

5.3.6 British Columbia will provide monthly nomination reports to Canada.

5.3.7 Canada will provide monthly reports on the processing and granting of permanent resident status to Provincial Nominees destined to British Columbia as well as any other type of report provided to any other provinces pursuant to their Provincial Nominee agreements.

First of all, I must disclose that I have not applied for a Provincial Nomination. The second thing I keep reading on this Forum is that no Province can restrict you movements after getting PR. One point consistently brought up by Asivad in particular is where he states that freedom of mobility is guaranteed under the Canadian Constitution.

Don't get me wrong I personally agree with you, it just seems that freedom of mobility under the Constitution conflicts with a moral responsibility to a Province after a person gets a PNP. This seems like a grey area.

 

[Phil89]

I keep reading reference to this question. I don't understand how people cannot see it is clearly misrepresentation to accept a PNP nomination when they have no intention of residing in that Province.
I have done a little google research this morning and found this regarding BC. The other provinces also have guidelines.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/agreements/bc/bc-2010-annex-b.asp

5.3.4 British Columbia will maintain records with respect to the assessment of each foreign national nominated under this Annex. Subject to applicable provincial privacy legislation, Canada will be provided with access to these records for audit purposes. These records will be retained for a minimum period of six (6) years from the date of nomination.

5.3.5 Canada and British Columbia will investigate means of providing British Columbia with access to an electronic information exchange system in support of the Provincial Nominee Program.

5.3.6 British Columbia will provide monthly nomination reports to Canada.

5.3.7 Canada will provide monthly reports on the processing and granting of permanent resident status to Provincial Nominees destined to British Columbia as well as any other type of report provided to any other provinces pursuant to their Provincial Nominee agreements.

Not sure WHERE you clearly see a misrepresentation? lol They don't expect 100% of nominees to settle in the province, BUT, they need those reports to make sure at least the majority make an effort to settle down in the nominated province and make any changes in criteria to the program accordingly. They are not gonna chase you down and take your PR away because your freedom of movement is guaranteed by the chapter of rights - too sad you don't know that.

 

[Pippin]

I am a Canadian, not an immigration expert and have no vested interest in any PNP. I started this thread to spur discussion and post official links as the topic keeps coming up. I wonder if moving provinces would be an issue at the time a PR wanted to apply for citizenship? I don't know, but I would want to find out. Why would provinces go to the expense of tracking individuals for this period of time (extremely easy to do with SIN or Carecard numbers)? Why would provinces offer PNP if they knew applicants would never make an effort to settle in their province? It is clearly stated that PR can be denied at POE if the officer believes the applicant does not intend to stay in the province of nomination. Has anyone come up with CIC based references that deal specifically with a PR's obligation to the nominating province?

 

[JoacRy]

I am a Canadian, not an immigration expert and have no vested interest in any PNP. I started this thread to spur discussion and post official links as the topic keeps coming up. I wonder if moving provinces would be an issue at the time a PR wanted to apply for citizenship? I don't know, but I would want to find out. Why would provinces go to the expense of tracking individuals for this period of time (extremely easy to do with SIN or Carecard numbers)? Why would provinces offer PNP if they knew applicants would never make an effort to settle in their province? It is clearly stated that PR can be denied at POE if the officer believes the applicant does not intend to stay in the province of nomination. Has anyone come up with CIC based references that deal specifically with a PR's obligation to the nominating province?

In my opinion you are spot-on. This is my thinking as well. Why would Provinces go through the hassle of providing a PNP to either an individual or a couple if they knew they were not going to reside in that Province? The whole logic is that by providing a PNP, the person will settle in that Province and provide future economic benefits to the Province (in the form of Taxes, patronage of businesses in the province etc). From my research though I can't find anything on either CIC websites or the Province website (Ontario) that I have looked at indicating that a person has to settle in a Province either for a minimum length of time or Permanently after they receive a PNP.

 

[jemdill]

*************************On November 24, 2010, the CIC published Operational Bulletin 251 in conjunction with a CBSA
memorandum to Border Services Officers instructing the BSOs that they may write an A44(1) report
against PV2 permanent resident visa holders who seek landing but do not intend to reside in the
nominating province.11
If the PV2 visa holder’s intention changed subsequent to applying for
permanent residence, then the A44(1) report is based on R87(2)(b) requiring the intention to do so.
If the intention never existed, then the A44(1) report may also be based on A40(1)(a)
misrepresentation.
If the BSO does not write an A44(1) report, then the local CIC is to inform the PNP. If the PNP
withdraws the nomination, then the local CIC should refuse the PV2 application and issue the
A44(1) report based on A41 non-compliance.

***********************************************

http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/IMM11_Panel1B_Paper.pdf


Each province has a target each year and CIC approves PR for those people nominated by that province. So if we are taking advantage of PNP only to get PR then I think it will be a misrepresentation.

 

[mf4361]

Section 6 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [1][2]

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

This means any PNP person who has already landed in Canada has the right to move to any provinces.

As for PNP processes, each province has their own measure to ensure people accepting their PNP stays in their respective province. Most province has their quota for people with job offers. E.g. Sask with employment category issues WP while PR is being processed. This means if s/he leaves the job, the PR will be rejected. Effectively ties the applicant their Sask job until he gets PR. After landing, the restriction goes away.

A few (e.g. NBPNP-EE) has a declaration to sign that applicant will stay in the province for a certain years. This put the applicant in a strange position where he is violating his own declaration, and can be considered misrepresentation, while NB government is unconstitutional. If a person does move away NB, and NB government wants to kick him out, it will have to be settled in court.

One more thing: while moving between provinces is allowed after landing, you have to land at your province of nomination. E.g. If you are landing for AINP in Alberta, while show signs of setting lives in BC, the border officer can refuse your entry.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Six_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms
[2] http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

 

[Asivad Anac]

Section 6 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [1][2]

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

This means any PNP person who has already landed in Canada has the right to move to any provinces.

As for PNP processes, each province has their own measure to ensure people accepting their PNP stays in their respective province. Most province has their quota for people with job offers. E.g. Sask with employment category issues WP while PR is being processed. This means if s/he leaves the job, the PR will be rejected. Effectively ties the applicant their Sask job until he gets PR. After landing, the restriction goes away.

A few (e.g. NBPNP-EE) has a declaration to sign that applicant will stay in the province for a certain years. This put the applicant in a strange position where he is violating his own declaration, and can be considered misrepresentation, while NB government is unconstitutional. If a person does move away NB, and NB government wants to kick him out, it will have to be settled in court.

One more thing: while moving between provinces is allowed after landing, you have to land at your province of nomination. E.g. If you are landing for AINP in Alberta, while show signs of setting lives in BC, the border officer can refuse your entry.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Six_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms
[2] http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

Completely agree.

Any province attempting to forcibly retain its PNPs within its borders will be flouting the constitutional guarantee of mobility rights granted to all citizens and PRs. And I don't think they do it. Potential immigrants have unfounded fears as most of them do not understand all the rights accorded to them by the Canadian constitution so most of them would end up staying back in the province for fear of accidentally doing something illegal that could threaten their PR status or affect their citizenship chances at a later date. CIC and the provinces have no motivation to clarify on this subject as that would remove this fear and ignorance thereby leaving some unsatisfying provinces merely as entry gates to PRs. .

 

[number411]

Section 6 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [1][2]

(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
(a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
(b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.

This means any PNP person who has already landed in Canada has the right to move to any provinces.

As for PNP processes, each province has their own measure to ensure people accepting their PNP stays in their respective province. Most province has their quota for people with job offers. E.g. Sask with employment category issues WP while PR is being processed. This means if s/he leaves the job, the PR will be rejected. Effectively ties the applicant their Sask job until he gets PR. After landing, the restriction goes away.

A few (e.g. NBPNP-EE) has a declaration to sign that applicant will stay in the province for a certain years. This put the applicant in a strange position where he is violating his own declaration, and can be considered misrepresentation, while NB government is unconstitutional. If a person does move away NB, and NB government wants to kick him out, it will have to be settled in court.

One more thing: while moving between provinces is allowed after landing, you have to land at your province of nomination. E.g. If you are landing for AINP in Alberta, while show signs of setting lives in BC, the border officer can refuse your entry.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Six_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms
[2] http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html

I agree with this point of view. The most important thing to be considered is the "intention of the applicant to settle in the nominated province". If the applicant shows intentions of not settling, and if the CBSA or PNP officers can prove this non-intention at the time of landing in Port of Entry, then PR can be denied.

Practically, as PNP nominees, it makes sense to make a genuine attempt in settling in the nominated province, rather than trying to game the system at the very outset. Even SINP takes a filled Schedule 4, so signing the form with a clear intention of not settling is misrepresentation and as they say in law, a violator always leaves some trace or proof if there is a mal-intention.

So please don't make plans to settle elsewhere if you are a PNP nominee. Make plans to settle there, and have alternate plans if things don't work out in the time for which you have funds. With 12-20K CAD, an applicant can live in a province for atmost 4-6 months, and not possible beyond this. Hence it will be a reasonable justification if someone decides to look outside a province if he doesn't get a means to establish oneself (jobs etc) in this timeline.

It is also equally bearing on the province to ensure new immigrants get a job in this timeline, i.e. till when funds last with a justifiable lifestyle.

I have a related question. Which law firm has the most experience in litigating for/against PNPs? I'm sure there will be atleast 1 or more cases in courts, if some province has litigated against a nominee, if they indeed go after PRs who moved. And these days, most of the cases are published online in Federal court websites. So can we try to find some cases, and the line of arguments by lawyers/judge?

References:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op07b-eng.pdf
http://meurrensonimmigration.com/wp-content/uploads/PNP.pdf

 

[number411]

I keep reading reference to this question. I don't understand how people cannot see it is clearly misrepresentation to accept a PNP nomination when they have no intention of residing in that Province.
I have done a little google research this morning and found this regarding BC. The other provinces also have guidelines.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/laws-policy/agreements/bc/bc-2010-annex-b.asp

5.3.4 British Columbia will maintain records with respect to the assessment of each foreign national nominated under this Annex. Subject to applicable provincial privacy legislation, Canada will be provided with access to these records for audit purposes. These records will be retained for a minimum period of six (6) years from the date of nomination.

5.3.5 Canada and British Columbia will investigate means of providing British Columbia with access to an electronic information exchange system in support of the Provincial Nominee Program.

5.3.6 British Columbia will provide monthly nomination reports to Canada.

5.3.7 Canada will provide monthly reports on the processing and granting of permanent resident status to Provincial Nominees destined to British Columbia as well as any other type of report provided to any other provinces pursuant to their Provincial Nominee agreements.

Hi Pippin,

Further to my post in the same thread, I also spoke to an immigration attorney in Canada who has good experience with appeals on PN cases. He agreed that an intention to settle in the nominated province is crucial, at the same he (the attorney) also mentioned however, that plans and intentions can change and are permitted to change after landing, based on real life experiences faced by immigrants in the province.

Also, there is no litigation in the past, not even one that he could find, where a province has taken a PN to court for having relocated to a different province after spending some time in the nominated. This means provinces are well aware of the charter of rights and know that there is no case that can be pursued. There is no guideline on the minimum amount of time but my personal opinion is that one has to provide sufficient time and work with the institutions of settlement in the nominated province, i.e. in summary make a genuine attempt at settling.

Hope this helps.

I also got another question clarified. It is okay to land and get immigration clearances done in some other province for PNs, in case where is no direct flight to any city, in the nominated. However, it is important to have a connecting flight booked, initial stay reserved etc i.e. to have made plans to settle and if required, also show the documentation pertaining to that plan to the CBSA officer at the port of entry.

 

[knowAndShare]

+1 for number411, for the extra effort of having a discussion with Canada based attorney having experience of this field. So it looks it is OK to move to different province-
If your genuine(provable by documents) efforts does not help you in settling in your nominated province.

But given this situation and individual scenarios, for how long should one atleast stay in nominated province?

 

[Asivad Anac]

+1 for number411, for the extra effort of having a discussion with Canada based attorney having experience of this field. So it looks it is OK to move to different province-
If your genuine(provable by documents) efforts does not help you in settling in your nominated province.

But given this situation and individual scenarios, for how long should one atleast stay in nominated province?

Technically, one can move immediately after landing. Morally, it depends on the individual. Practically, anywhere between 6 months to a year.

 

[number411]

Technically, one can move immediately after landing. Morally, it depends on the individual. Practically, anywhere between 6 months to a year.

Yes, agree.

Based on experience, I can say that any province has advantages/disadvantages. And it takes time to identify those advantages, and position oneself and family to exploit them and live a better life. 6 months to 1 year is a good time to take that call.

 

[Pippin]

I am delighted to see the responses in this thread and hope it will be helpful to others. It is interesting that the lawyer said there is no evidence of PN being taken to court for moving out of province after spending a period of time in that province. The fine line is the amount of time and effort made to settle. If 600 points are being given it makes the "intention" to reside BEFORE PR a lot stronger. As far as certain provinces requiring applicants to sign a document stating their intention to reside - the Charter of Rights guaranteeing freedom of movement applies to PR and Canadian Citizens. If the document is freely signed by the applicant before PR then it should not contravene the Charter. Correct?
I see the greatest unfairness over the granting of 600 points for PNP nominees is the lack of accountability. Would it be fairer to remove the 600 points completely. For PNP, as soon as medical/sec screening is done, provide work permits to expedite arrival in the province of nomination and to get established before PR is granted. Just An idea to level the playing field and decrease the massive advantage given to some
Who have no intention of staying in prov of nomination.

 

[zardoz]

The "solution" to this problem for the nominating provinces would be to impose "conditional" PR, as was done with entrepreneurs IIRC. It's obviously a legally viable step as this "Condition 51" imposed on Spousal Sponsorship effectively prevents mobility of one party relative to the other. That hasn't been challenged on a constitutional rights basis...