On the breach of 1951 convention?

[AlexInCan]

It appears that the processing of the application for permanent residence takes considerable amount of time, during which Convention refugees are not accorded rights to which they are entitled under various sections of the 1951 Convention.

Do protected persons have a union in order to negotiate with government of Canada, and possibly remind Canada on its duty on fully practicing the 1951 Convention with a good faith?

 

[Simba112]

It appears that the processing of the application for permanent residence takes considerable amount of time, during which Convention refugees are not accorded rights to which they are entitled under various sections of the 1951 Convention.

Do protected persons have a union in order to negotiate with government of Canada, and possibly remind Canada on its duty on fully practicing the 1951 Convention with a good faith?

Interesting discussion, was wondering what are those specific rights that protected person are not accorded by the Government of Canada and those sections, you mentioned about timeline for processing application for Permanent residency, is there specific turn around time in the Charter?

 

[Bornlucky]

It appears that the processing of the application for permanent residence takes considerable amount of time, during which Convention refugees are not accorded rights to which they are entitled under various sections of the 1951 Convention.

Do protected persons have a union in order to negotiate with government of Canada, and possibly remind Canada on its duty on fully practicing the 1951 Convention with a good faith?

Hi - with your mention of the length of time to receive PR status, perhaps you're referring most directly to:,

Article 34 - Naturalization: The Contracting States shall as far as possible facilitate the assimilation and naturalization of refugees. They shall in particular make every effort to expedite naturalization proceedings and to reduce as far as possible the charges and costs of such proceedings.

I believe that the Government's most likely response to a challenge would be: Done - as far as possible.

I suppose that they could take money from the determination process so that there would be fewer Convention refugees complaining about how long it takes for a Convention refugee to get landed. Problem solved with neutral spending and potential savings for the processing of fewer family reunification appliications - IRCC issues internal awards all around!

I would note that there is a pretty effective advocacy group in the Canadian Council for Refugees: https://ccrweb.ca/en and they've achieved changes here and there for a vulnerable segment of the population that otherwise doesn't get to vote.

Advocacy is a good thing and I wish you good luck in your endeavour.

 

[Simba112]

Hi - with your mention of the length of time to receive PR status, perhaps you're referring most directly to:,

Article 34 - Naturalization: The Contracting States shall as far as possible facilitate the assimilation and naturalization of refugees. They shall in particular make every effort to expedite naturalization proceedings and to reduce as far as possible the charges and costs of such proceedings.

I believe that the Government's most likely response to a challenge would be: Done - as far as possible.

I suppose that they could take money from the determination process so that there would be fewer Convention refugees complaining about how long it takes for a Convention refugee to get landed. Problem solved with neutral spending and potential savings for the processing of fewer family reunification appliications - IRCC issues internal awards all around!

I would note that there is a pretty effective advocacy group in the Canadian Council for Refugees: https://ccrweb.ca/en and they've achieved changes here and there for a vulnerable segment of the population that otherwise doesn't get to vote.

Advocacy is a good thing and I wish you good luck in your endeavour.

thank you for your valuable input. Can you please enlighten us on below paragraph,

“suppose that they could take money from the determination process so that there would be fewer Convention refugees complaining about how long it takes for a Convention refugee to get landed. Problem solved with neutral spending and potential savings for the processing of fewer family reunification appliications - IRCC issues internal awards all around!”

 

[Bornlucky]

thank you for your valuable input. Can you please enlighten us on below paragraph,

“suppose that they could take money from the determination process so that there would be fewer Convention refugees complaining about how long it takes for a Convention refugee to get landed. Problem solved with neutral spending and potential savings for the processing of fewer family reunification appliications - IRCC issues internal awards all around!”

Sure - the Treasury Board of Canada allocates Departmental budgets. Deputy Ministers review PMO priority directives for their departments and allocate the money internally based upon those and other issues within the Department. If there is only so much money and one thing isn't being emphasized sufficiently then the money most frequently must be found internally.

If Convention refugee applications for PR need to be sped up then you could kill two birds with one stone by processing fewer refugee determination claims and thereby produce fewer Convention refugees. Now you could have speedier processing of those fewer PR applications and the fewer accompanying family reunification applications.

You will have more outstanding refugee claims pile up awaiting determination but you've solved the processing times for actual Convention refugees and you haven't spent "new money" speeding up that processing. Voila, and with tongue in cheek, within the Department the solution to the processing demand is found without expense and the originator of the idea is celebrated.

I apologize for any misconstrued notions of what was only a sardonic statement of the Federal Public Service's awards programs for their staff and the sorts of things that they reward.

 

[Simba112]

Sure - the Treasury Board of Canada allocates Departmental budgets. Deputy Ministers review PMO priority directives for their departments and allocate the money internally based upon those and other issues within the Department. If there is only so much money and one thing isn't being emphasized sufficiently then the money most frequently must be found internally.

If Convention refugee applications for PR need to be sped up then you could kill two birds with one stone by processing fewer refugee determination claims and thereby produce fewer Convention refugees. Now you could have speedier processing of those fewer PR applications and the fewer accompanying family reunification applications.

You will have more outstanding refugee claims pile up awaiting determination but you've solved the processing times for actual Convention refugees and you haven't spent "new money" speeding up that processing. Voila, and with tongue in cheek, within the Department the solution to the processing demand is found without expense and the originator of the idea is celebrated.

I apologize for any misconstrued notions of what was only a sardonic statement of the Federal Public Service's awards programs for their staff and the sorts of things that they reward.

Thank you so much. This. Makes a lot of sense and seems to be easy way around but creates other backlog. On separate note Canada us doing great in settling refugees compared to other G20. To the best of my knowledge, influx of claimants from the US during Trum administration, pandemic trigger backlog and increase processing time. At the moment IRB has 69k claims from 75k. While litigation is not the bad option, but the speed IRB are taking will reduce the backlog and improve turnaround time for PR from refugee stream.

 

[Jamie90]

It appears that the processing of the application for permanent residence takes considerable amount of time, during which Convention refugees are not accorded rights to which they are entitled under various sections of the 1951 Convention.

Do protected persons have a union in order to negotiate with government of Canada, and possibly remind Canada on its duty on fully practicing the 1951 Convention with a good faith?

Actually, I remember reading on IRCC website that refugees applying for PR receive the same treatment as other applicants (inside and outside Canada); it means that no priority is given to refugees for PR processing. All PR applications are processed based on the date they were received and their position in the backlog.
Good luck with advocacy, it's very important to keep conversations going.

 

[canuck78]

Sure - the Treasury Board of Canada allocates Departmental budgets. Deputy Ministers review PMO priority directives for their departments and allocate the money internally based upon those and other issues within the Department. If there is only so much money and one thing isn't being emphasized sufficiently then the money most frequently must be found internally.

If Convention refugee applications for PR need to be sped up then you could kill two birds with one stone by processing fewer refugee determination claims and thereby produce fewer Convention refugees. Now you could have speedier processing of those fewer PR applications and the fewer accompanying family reunification applications.

You will have more outstanding refugee claims pile up awaiting determination but you've solved the processing times for actual Convention refugees and you haven't spent "new money" speeding up that processing. Voila, and with tongue in cheek, within the Department the solution to the processing demand is found without expense and the originator of the idea is celebrated.

I apologize for any misconstrued notions of what was only a sardonic statement of the Federal Public Service's awards programs for their staff and the sorts of things that they reward.

Don't think you can say that there will be less applications if we process applications faster. The ability to be processed fast and be reunited with your family would drive more refugees to try to enter Canada. Time until you can be reunited with your immediate family and chances that you will get approved are some of the biggest factors when identifying countries where to claim asylum. Financial support, language and ability to travel to the country are the other big considerations. Legal aid budgets may also be a problem. If you process more applications faster legal aid budgets may not be able to support all who qualify.

 

[Bornlucky]

Don't think you can say that there will be less applications if we process applications faster. The ability to be processed fast and be reunited with your family would drive more refugees to try to enter Canada. Time until you can be reunited with your immediate family and chances that you will get approved are some of the biggest factors when identifying countries where to claim asylum. Financial support, language and ability to travel to the country are the other big considerations. Legal aid budgets may also be a problem. If you process more applications faster legal aid budgets may not be able to support all who qualify.

Well, that isn't what I said. I said:

"If Convention refugee applications for PR need to be sped up then you could kill two birds with one stone by processing fewer refugee determination claims and thereby produce fewer Convention refugees." Yes - you'd have bigger backlogs of open claims waiting to be determined however CRs PR applications would clearly be less backlogged.

So when you say, "If you process more applications faster legal aid budgets may not be able to support all who qualify," then you're
simply not discussing my statement any longer.

 

[canuck78]

Well, that isn't what I said. I said:

"If Convention refugee applications for PR need to be sped up then you could kill two birds with one stone by processing fewer refugee determination claims and thereby produce fewer Convention refugees." Yes - you'd have bigger backlogs of open claims waiting to be determined however CRs PR applications would clearly be less backlogged.

So when you say, "If you process more applications faster legal aid budgets may not be able to support all who qualify," then you're
simply not discussing my statement any longer.

I still fail to see how processing claims faster, you would end up with fewer convention refugees. That only works if you are able to maintain the same numbers. As we have seen with cases like Roxham road, publicizing anything that would be beneficial to refugee claimants worldwide usually attracts more asylum claimants. If Canada processes claims quickly, that would likely draw more refugees. Could also incentivize students or temporary workers to apply for asylum versus go through the economic immigration streams if processing times are significantly shorter.

 

[Bornlucky]

I still fail to see how processing claims faster, you would end up with fewer convention refugees. That only works if you are able to maintain the same numbers. As we have seen with cases like Roxham road, publicizing anything that would be beneficial to refugee claimants worldwide usually attracts more asylum claimants. If Canada processes claims quickly, that would likely draw more refugees. Could also incentivize students or temporary workers to apply for asylum versus go through the economic immigration streams if processing times are significantly shorter.

Hi - this is my final effort to express that my post suggests slowing the processing of CR claims - fewer determinations; less decisions, and this would lessen any backlog of the processing of those fewer positively determined Convention refugee decision for PR status.

 

[Adamdear]

Don't think you can say that there will be less applications if we process applications faster. The ability to be processed fast and be reunited with your family would drive more refugees to try to enter Canada. Time until you can be reunited with your immediate family and chances that you will get approved are some of the biggest factors when identifying countries where to claim asylum. Financial support, language and ability to travel to the country are the other big considerations. Legal aid budgets may also be a problem. If you process more applications faster legal aid budgets may not be able to support all who qualify.

I find this logic to be flawed. Saying that speeding up the process would drive more people to claim asylum in Canada can't be substantiated given that the claims go through several steps, first of which is admissibility, which will determine if people have the right to go on with their claim or get removed from the country. If people were found admissible, claimants can access social assistance programs just as convention refugees, permanent residents, and citizens, placing an extra burden on the government's social welfare programs and putting bonafide refugees in legal limbo. Faster processing doesn't necessarily mean more people will get a permanent status by claiming asylum. Yes, it could be more convenient for some at some point to go that route but knowing that you could be quickly removed, if you were found not in need of Canada's protection, could serve as a deterrent for many. Further, if someone's claim was rejected, the chances for them to re-enter the country legally is almost zero which could be another reason why people would think twice before making their claim. Longer processing time, on the other hand, could allow so many to stay and establish a life including finding a partner, through which they can apply for a spousal visa and change their status. In this case, real refugees will be affected significantly and will live not knowing what the future carry for them when others who are not worthy of the country's protection can stay here and go back to their original countries when push comes to shove.