My Story

[harpreethwalia]

I wanted to share my side of story. This is just for anyone who might be in similar situation and want to get some words or idea from here

Me and my wife, both employed with Wipro, came from Bangalore to US in 2009. My client did both my canada work visa and US H1b. Gave me an option to join anywhere. At that time, you just want to go abroad and when everyone was opting for US, I did too.

Started working through Wipro in Boston. Initially, it was all about enjoying life in US, saving money and working really hard to earn you spot in clients eyes. I did good. But as you are through desi company, you can only work with clients with little to no expectation of raise or position gain.

Left Wipro and started working for a US based company in 2012. The reason I moved out was because I wanted to have my GC started. New employer started my GC. I got my I140 approved stage with PD of Sep 2012 (In EB2)

For first few years, like many of us, I am just waiting to see if PD for GC moves or not. It moves sometimes and then it retrogress back. This kept on happening and I stopped looking at visa bulletins anymore.

Moved from Boston to NJ in 2014 as I got another good offer with financial firm in NY. As I already had I140 approved, it was not a problem for US employers to port over my H1b.

This was the time of the life when we had our first kid and first house. We were already around 7 yrs total in US. I think after kid, the whole mindset changed from "enjoying life" to "enjoying life with a sense of responsibility now".

I guess all the guys can relate that during your time, after your kid is born, you start to analyse where you are in your life. Are you well settled? Is your kid and family going to be safe here? Can you vision yourself for long term stability?

All the above thoughts came to my mind as well. I was surprised myself as I never ever had these thoughts and discussions within myself with this seriousness

So the ans to all my questions in mind was "NO". I was not stable, not financially or long term basis.

Of course we have this well paying job plus whatever savings you have collected over this time, but I was not satisfied or content. and I found only one ans to this reason. My H1B visa.

I just couldn't see myself spending another 5-10 yrs (or more) waiting for some Green card to come. With all the rules changes happening in US right now, I was even more skeptic that I will ever get it.

After having these thoughts for 2-3 more years, me and my wife did our Canada PR. We got our PR within months. This was a big step in thinking that something you get in months, when something you are waiting from past years and still dont know when you GC will come

Finally moved to Canada on Sep 1, 2018.

Was it all worth it? For me, yes. I am not sure how to explain this but there is this sense of freedom that I never felt back in US. This freedom from my visa is a big relief for me here. I have freedom to work or not to work, to travel for 1-2 months back to my home country with no questions at border, (We all know how it is to travel out and back to US from another country on H1b.). I can call my parents for a extended period of time. My wife can spend more time with our daughter at home without considering what kind of visa she will be on and without any fear of loosing visa just because you dont have a job.

Of course not everything is perfect here, but the reason I was so not content or satisfied in US, I dont feel it here anymore. I like it so far. I am 34 now. I didn't wanted to spend another 10yrs of my life in US waiting for some GC which will come when I am done with most of my life.

Sorry for long post. But wanted to get this out there.

 

[Buletruck]

Welcome to Canada. It’s not perfect, but it’s not too bad when you look at the big picture.

 

[harpreethwalia]

Welcome to Canada. It’s not perfect, but it’s not too bad when you look at the big picture.

Thanks. When ppl back in US (who are in similar situation) ask me how is Canada, I tell them the same thing. I cant explain this freedom feeling. Its something they need to come and see themselves.

I have all these friends in US who are canada PR holder but still thinking from past 1-2 yrs "what to do". Its like this h1b visa has blocked our mind from making any more decisions in life.

I said find your reason and move.

 

[meyakanor]

Glad you made the decision to move, welcome to Canada.

Since your priority date is in 2012, it would likely become current much after you get your Canadian citizenship. At that point, you can move back to the US (if you still want to), and restart the green card process (with your 2012 priority date). Canadians don't require visa stamping for most non-immigrant status, so you'd notice how much simpler the whole process is (everything is pretty much done at border after petition, and no need to deal with DoS or consulate).

And of course, this is assuming you are still interested in moving back down there (and the administration has not screwed up the system even more by then)

 

[harpreethwalia]

Glad you made the decision to move, welcome to Canada.

Since your priority date is in 2012, it would likely become current much after you get your Canadian citizenship. At that point, you can move back to the US (if you still want to), and restart the green card process (with your 2012 priority date). Canadians don't require visa stamping for most non-immigrant status, so you'd notice how much simpler the whole process is (everything is pretty much done at border after petition, and no need to deal with DoS or consulate).

And of course, this is assuming you are still interested in moving back down there (and the administration has not screwed up the system even more by then)

I could see that the way i was "welcomed" when entering border. No hassle or asking tough questions or actually no questions. said "welcome to canada". Not sure if i ever heard that when entering states.

I am really not sure my PD will get current even by the time i am eligible for citizenship here. and honestly, there is no point gng back on same visa. 80% employers are not even considering H1B candidates for any job positions now.

Anyways, thanks for your response.

 

[harpreethwalia]

Glad you made the decision to move, welcome to Canada.

Since your priority date is in 2012, it would likely become current much after you get your Canadian citizenship. At that point, you can move back to the US (if you still want to), and restart the green card process (with your 2012 priority date). Canadians don't require visa stamping for most non-immigrant status, so you'd notice how much simpler the whole process is (everything is pretty much done at border after petition, and no need to deal with DoS or consulate).

And of course, this is assuming you are still interested in moving back down there (and the administration has not screwed up the system even more by then)

Also, congrats on your citizenship. Were you in Canada before or moved here from somewhere?

 

[meyakanor]

I could see that the way i was "welcomed" when entering border. No hassle or asking tough questions or actually no questions. said "welcome to canada". Not sure if i ever heard that when entering states.

I am really not sure my PD will get current even by the time i am eligible for citizenship here. and honestly, there is no point gng back on same visa. 80% employers are not even considering H1B candidates for any job positions now.

Anyways, thanks for your response.

Yeah, the day you became a PR is the day that they stopped harassing you at the border. Entering the country became a strict formality (unless if you have other inadmissibility issues like misrepresentation, RO or criminal record).

One need look no further than the way Canada defines 'foreign nationals' vs. the United States.

Canada does not treat its permanent residents as foreign nationals

A person who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/glossary.asp#f

Where the US treats everybody without US nationality or citizenship as a foreign national

A person without U.S. citizenship or nationality (may include a stateless person).

https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary?topic_id=f#alpha-listing

While de-facto, this may not mean much, Canadian permanent residents are afforded more rights and protection under the immigration law than US lawful permanent residents.

I'm glad you find your home here. Unless they do something about the way EB green cards are allocated, you can expect to wait for (at the very least) another 5 to 10 years before 2012 priority date would become current.

I moved to Canada late 2009 as a student, and became a citizen last year.

People born in India or China who moved to the States in 2009 are probably still languishing in the never ending waiting list for a green card right now (unless they qualify under EB-1).

 

[steaky]

Thanks. When ppl back in US (who are in similar situation) ask me how is Canada, I tell them the same thing. I cant explain this freedom feeling. Its something they need to come and see themselves.

I have all these friends in US who are canada PR holder but still thinking from past 1-2 yrs "what to do". Its like this h1b visa has blocked our mind from making any more decisions in life.

I said find your reason and move.

You called this freedom feeling?

Whenever I returned to my other country, there were no questions asked from the local border controls nor do I had to worry about bringing newly acquired designer handbags and shoes that would otherwise attracted Canadian duties at Canadian port of entry. This is what I call freedom.

 

[steaky]

Where the US treats everybody without US nationality or citizenship as a foreign national

With respect to US income tax laws, a foreign national can be classified as an US person:

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/determining-alien-tax-status

 

[bellaluna]

You called this freedom feeling?

Whenever I returned to my other country, there were no questions asked from the local border controls nor do I had to worry about bringing newly acquired designer handbags and shoes that would otherwise attracted Canadian duties at Canadian port of entry. This is what I call freedom.

Different strokes for different folks. Immigration and customs are different beasts. Maybe that's not relevant to OP at all. Let the man enjoy his.

 

[vensak]

Yeah, the day you became a PR is the day that they stopped harassing you at the border. Entering the country became a strict formality (unless if you have other inadmissibility issues like misrepresentation, RO or criminal record).

One need look no further than the way Canada defines 'foreign nationals' vs. the United States.

Canada does not treat its permanent residents as foreign nationals



Where the US treats everybody without US nationality or citizenship as a foreign national



While de-facto, this may not mean much, Canadian permanent residents are afforded more rights and protection under the immigration law than US lawful permanent residents.

I'm glad you find your home here. Unless they do something about the way EB green cards are allocated, you can expect to wait for (at the very least) another 5 to 10 years before 2012 priority date would become current.

I moved to Canada late 2009 as a student, and became a citizen last year.

People born in India or China who moved to the States in 2009 are probably still languishing in the never ending waiting list for a green card right now (unless they qualify under EB-1).

You are severely mistaken here. Canada also regards you still as a foreign national (because that is what you are when you are only permanent resident). The difference is what did Canada choose to let you have access to against what USA did.
Each country can define how much access can this or that foreign national have on a local services.
There are several occasions when your residency can be taken away from you (the most common one is not meeting RO).
There are also other restrictions when it comes to Canadian PR (you cannot participate in elections regardless how long you live there, you have more conditions when it comes to spousal sponsorship, also living with a PR abroad does not count towards RO requirements).

So as you can see there are several differences.

What you are trying to say is, that what Canada does grant to their PR is more convenient for you than what USA would.
Anyway I kind of see the dual intent here - to secure Canadian citizenship while waiting for your green card anyway and once citizen to move to USA (where you will have more options because of it).

 

[meyakanor]

You are severely mistaken here. Canada also regards you still as a foreign national (because that is what you are when you are only permanent resident). The difference is what did Canada choose to let you have access to against what USA did.
Each country can define how much access can this or that foreign national have on a local services.
There are several occasions when your residency can be taken away from you (the most common one is not meeting RO).
There are also other restrictions when it comes to Canadian PR (you cannot participate in elections regardless how long you live there, you have more conditions when it comes to spousal sponsorship, also living with a PR abroad does not count towards RO requirements).

So as you can see there are several differences.

What you are trying to say is, that what Canada does grant to their PR is more convenient for you than what USA would.
Anyway I kind of see the dual intent here - to secure Canadian citizenship while waiting for your green card anyway and once citizen to move to USA (where you will have more options because of it).

Canadian permanent residents are not citizens, but they are also NOT foreign nationals.

As I mentioned, the IRPA defined foreign nationals as those without Canadian citizenship or permanent residency, whereas the US explicitly defines foreign nationals as those without citizenship or nationality (it is possible to be a US national, but not a US citizen, i.e, American Samoans).

foreign national means a person who is not a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident, and includes a stateless person. (étranger)

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-1.html

That's simply what the law says.

And of course permanent residency can be revoked, and of course, it is not the same as citizenship, but the Canadian immigration law simply states that permanent residents are NOT considered as foreign nationals.

 

[vensak]

Canadian permanent residents are not citizens, but they are also NOT foreign nationals.

As I mentioned, the IRPA defined foreign nationals as those without Canadian citizenship or permanent residency, whereas the US explicitly defines foreign nationals as those without citizenship or nationality (it is possible to be a US national, but not a US citizen, i.e, American Samoans).




That's simply what the law says.

And of course permanent residency can be revoked, and of course, it is not the same as citizenship, but the Canadian immigration law simply states that permanent residents are NOT considered as foreign nationals.

Unfortunately they are foreign nationals (citizens). Simply because they are not Canadian citizens. And they would be identified as such if ever there was need to use international laws for dispute or if ever for whatever reason there would be a hostility between their country of nationality and Canada (unless of course they are classified as refugees as well).
It is just Canada for itself created special group of foreign nationals (citizens) that they call PR - nothing more and nothing less.

You can see similar examples of different groups of foreign nationals with different rights all around world. (for example citizens of other EU country holds special status when compared to the citizens of so called 3rd countries. And of course foreign nationals that hold PR of one of EU countries have again special status when travelling to other EU country when compared to those that do not have it. Same thing in USA, where holders of Green cards do have additional rights when compared to those with temporary work visa).

So do not let you be fooled with nice words, residency itself does not give you the same rights as citizens. And it does not matter if you call it a permanent resident or "extra carefully chosen specimen". That will not change a dime when it comes to international laws and neither when it comes to the local laws. In a whim of an eye they can change the laws for PR (and of course none of the PR has anything to say about it, because they cannot vote in the country they reside).

And speaking about nationality, strictly put in the past it was used (and it is still used in some countries) for you to identify to which cultural group you belong to. USA citizens knows it as the famous - Afro-American or Latin-American. So some other countries know it as to identify yourself with a nation even if you do not have citizenship of that nation or even if that nation does not have its own country (for example Romani people).

Somehow in English nationality became to be understood as a citizenship.


What is of course easier in this case, that unlike being in a queue without end in USA and not knowing if they will disband the queue, one feels more relaxed in Canada, where current waiting period for citizenship is given by amount of time spent in Canada. That this can change as well, of course it can, but it is easier to plan accordingly at least for now.

Canada goals and USA goals when it comes to immigration are a bit different (of course unless we are speaking about spousal sponsorship).

Canada opted for a way to accept those that will hit the highest score in the EE or those with correct specialisation (PNP). It is needless to say that you will get them, but at the same time you might be facing a long term problem when majority of all EE immigrants are coming only from 5-10 different countries from which most of them is from the same region. This can very easily create a segregations of different groups and living in the country without really need to cooperate with the other social groups (simply because some nationalities will have so big groups that they will slowly turn into majority in the country with all the consequences). So this might potentially create a tension with the other groups that are already settled.
It is understandable, that since Canada had much less of these tensions (unless we are speaking about English and French relationship), it does not see this a big problem in the future.

USA approach is to strictly avoid to have big homogenous immigrating groups as much as possible. As a result waiting lines from some countries are long, while others can get in pretty fast. This approach of course takes the quality of immigrants as secondary as long as they can make it into USA and hit an employer to start the Green card process.

So yes each of those 2 countries have a different immigration strategy. Only time will show which of them is better.

 

[meyakanor]

As I said, Canada defines 'foreign nationals' as those not having citizenship or permanent residency. That is what is being stated in the Canadian law, and that is the definition that I would go with. And yes, I do not disagree that citizens and permanent residents have a different set of rights, and that they are NOT equivalent.

Regarding different classes of persons with different sets of rights, the US defines 'foreign nationals' as those lacking citizenship or nationality. American Samoans are US nationals, but they are not US citizens. American Samoans are entitled to US passports, and they can move to the US mainland without any limitation. American Samoans cannot be deported for, say, criminal record, BUT, they cannot vote, nor can they ever be presidents. Non-citizen US nationals can become US citizens, only if they go through the process of naturalization, and only then they can vote (but still can't become US president).

So there you have it, a class of non-foreign nationals in the United States which also does not have the same rights as citizens. Both non-citizen US nationals and US citizens are NOT foreign nationals, but one group can vote, yet the other can't. One group (if born as one) is eligible for US presidency, the other group is not, but BOTH are NOT foreign nationals.

 

[harpreethwalia]

Different strokes for different folks. Immigration and customs are different beasts. Maybe that's not relevant to OP at all. Let the man enjoy his.

Yes, for us, the move was with respect to long term stability and flexibility. Here atleast we are sure that we are on PR. In US, we dont even know when our number will come. 10,15 yrs. No stability. plus the hassle of visa stamping and horrible feeling that what can happen if anything goes wrong with job or visa.

Couldnt take it anymore with kids in picture. Anyone who are thinking same, can easily choose Canada over US with exception for thosewho have family/close to get their Green card or already a citizen