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Is it really worth it?

mshaikh

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I did see more opportunities in development field than admin of course that's everywhere but since Canada IT sector is comparatively smaller the difference is more stark.
 

Kuchbhi

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Posting to subscribe.
I am from India, worked in Telecom for 6 years. Then came to US for my MBA in 2013. I graduated in 2015 and working as Management Consultant in Telecom since, got my H1B in 2015. My wife came in 2015 to join me, and did her master's from US in 2017 currently working as an Intern. So 4 years in US for me in total and earning entry level 6 figure.

I have read almost all the posts on this thread, and here are my 2 cents.
1) It's always difficult to evaluate "What if" scenarios we all have walked a certain path, took a certain decisions that looked the "best decision" under then circumstances.
2) From a macroeconomic point of view, Canadian salaries will are lower than US and in effect, that's why they are inviting immigration. If a country has a booming economy then economic immigration will follow automatically. US, UK, Germany etc. US/UK had easier economic immigration (shorter wait times) in past but it's a demand and supply problem. As soon as more people start pouring in countries start tightening the immigration policies. (or if sense of right wing nationalism takes over)
[Whether lower Canadian salary is a bad or good thing is another story]
3) India and China were the cradle of civilization, hence the population growth. Be it any immigration system of any country, Indian and Chinese will always provide the volume to overwhelm it. Simply because there is volume. Some people may like it - if it helps their cause, some may not - if it hurts their cause.
4) I don't see Canadian lower salaries as a bag thing per se. In return as many have quoted several benefits like Healthcare, Education etc. To provide these benefits government needs income ==taxes. There are much such countries that provide lower salaries and similar benefits (and high tax rate). Norway, Finland, Sweden comes to my mind. They don't have an immigration program at the moment where Indians can benefit. Things may change in future, perhaps another country can ease up immigration perhaps Canada will tighten its policies.
5) Please note that not many citizens are so willingly ready to do away with their nationality than us. Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Chinese. In this day and world, we are in the habit of A la carte. Pick and choose always the good stuff, throw away the bad. What we fail to realize at times that life presents us with Package deals.
If you feel strongly towards your nation of birth, then I would suggest staying there. Yes, the traffic is bad, and there is a rat race. But there is an emotional connect, it's hard to measure since unlike your salary and savings it's hard to put a dollar amount in front of it.
If you feel US has more opportunities, higher wages. You know the times and odds of H1B, GC etc. you also know that Canada has a smaller market, lesser wages (in general). Depending on your risk taking appetite and trade offs take a call.

For me, I would prefer Canada since in my mind, long term stability and benefits outweighs short term cash flow deficit.
I have received an ITA, and working towards obtaining other documents. I am currently in India on vacation. And first 3-4 days in Delhi - my hometown - were tough. I hated the heat, noise, pollution, people and traffic. My mom said that I have become a complete NRI. Today is 5th day, and honestly it doesn't feel that bad. My plan A is Canada. And have my family including parents, and extended family move there. Plan B will be moving back to India. I was thinking of Australia and NZ at some point, but haven't given it a serious thought. Earning $100,000+ in US and spending in $$$ doesn't lead to that much savings. Doing the same job in India but earning Rs 25-30 / year would lead to humongous savings. Again it's a package deal not A La Carte.
P.S - I play a team based online game where I interact with 13 - 35 year olds. I have come across many - many Americans who are racists and would look down upon you. In comparison, not many Canadians were racists - they were more welcoming. Perhaps this small sample size can provide some insights into society. And by the way, using the same logic, most in India were simply horny and desperate.

Good luck to all!
 

ajithj

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Yes opportunities varies in tech sector and a lot depends on your skill set and what is currently hot in the market. I know skilled developers making over $100 per hour and average ones that make between $60~$75 range. Currently any big data experience will land you a high rate project very easily.
Contractors in mainframe development get only between C$ 45 - 50 range.
 

mshaikh

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13-2-2014
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04-03-2014
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23-9-2014
Canada is not bad. it's very subjective though. It can be bad for one person depending on where he/she is in life/career/family situation/savings/past experiences/living conditions/current job and the list goes on. It really really depends. And don't under estimate "who do you know". If you know someone in Canada, it helps a great deal. For example, it's not really that easy to get an apartment - there are waiting lists. It's not easy to get accommodation compared to US. Or may be I didn't know good source. Kijiji and Craigslist didn't help me. Most apartments had waiting lists or they were crazy expensive. Basements were available - but again it was tough to find in a location you like and with the home owner you may get along with and of course for right money. It's not like they have Sulekha where you can easily get an Indian roommate when you're a new comer to a town.

Anyways, I think one should plan the move properly. Take more time to think through and may be make arrangements of where you will live, what you will do etc. Oh, and no matter how good a friend you have, don't stay with him/her for long term - if he/she is married. I stayed at my friend's place and he and his family was nicest to me as anyone can be, but it's really odd when you stay with a family both for them and for you. Temporary stay for a month or so is okay but you really need to make arrangements for stay after that. This is just my opinion and experience.

By the way, if you veteran guys know any sites to find rooms/basements/roommates, please share. It might help out other people on the forum.
 

DEEPCUR

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Apr 12, 2016
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Canada is not bad. it's very subjective though. It can be bad for one person depending on where he/she is in life/career/family situation/savings/past experiences/living conditions/current job and the list goes on. It really really depends. And don't under estimate "who do you know". If you know someone in Canada, it helps a great deal. For example, it's not really that easy to get an apartment - there are waiting lists. It's not easy to get accommodation compared to US. Or may be I didn't know good source. Kijiji and Craigslist didn't help me. Most apartments had waiting lists or they were crazy expensive. Basements were available - but again it was tough to find in a location you like and with the home owner you may get along with and of course for right money. It's not like they have Sulekha where you can easily get an Indian roommate when you're a new comer to a town.

Anyways, I think one should plan the move properly. Take more time to think through and may be make arrangements of where you will live, what you will do etc. Oh, and no matter how good a friend you have, don't stay with him/her for long term - if he/she is married. I stayed at my friend's place and he and his family was nicest to me as anyone can be, but it's really odd when you stay with a family both for them and for you. Temporary stay for a month or so is okay but you really need to make arrangements for stay after that. This is just my opinion and experience.

By the way, if you veteran guys know any sites to find rooms/basements/roommates, please share. It might help out other people on the forum.
Nice.. btb, any luck with the job?
 

mshaikh

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@DEEPCUR not yet :(

I am diligently applying still. Never lose hope, eh ? :)
 

aashay12

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I just had a baby 20 days ago and I have about 3 weeks to go to Canada or lose my PR. It was more important for me for my baby to be a US citizen rather than Canadian. About Canada, I asked a lawyer, he said you can reapply and still get it in 2-3 years....So getting a PR in Canada is not a problem.... I could still reapply...no biggie....
So either stick it out in US say another 3-4 years or go to Canada now.
May be something might happen in US in 3-4 years, to get a GC, so I don't have to go to Canada.
Canada was never a choice, I just stumbled upon thru someone I knew when I was in college. It became an option when nothing was working out here for a GC....
Canada is an option, not a choice...
Also I am not in IT for me to learn technologies and like it, most jobs in Canada are in IT sector....atleast the good paying ones.
I would not shed a tear if I lose my Canadian PR. I would not regret....
Its anyways harder to get a job there than here....it's expensive too.
Worst case scenario, reapply for Canada...
 

DEEPCUR

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I just had a baby 20 days ago and I have about 3 weeks to go to Canada or lose my PR. It was more important for me for my baby to be a US citizen rather than Canadian. About Canada, I asked a lawyer, he said you can reapply and still get it in 2-3 years....So getting a PR in Canada is not a problem.... I could still reapply...no biggie....
So either stick it out in US say another 3-4 years or go to Canada now.
May be something might happen in US in 3-4 years, to get a GC, so I don't have to go to Canada.
Canada was never a choice, I just stumbled upon thru someone I knew when I was in college. It became an option when nothing was working out here for a GC....
Canada is an option, not a choice...
Also I am not in IT for me to learn technologies and like it, most jobs in Canada are in IT sector....atleast the good paying ones.
I would not shed a tear if I lose my Canadian PR. I would not regret....
Its anyways harder to get a job there than here....it's expensive too.
Worst case scenario, reapply for Canada...
But why would you reapply when you have no job prospects in Canada? It is going to cost money and much effort to rewrite IELTS, have spouse write, do medicals and all of that. The system is completely different from the 67 point system using which you would have applied last time.

If you feel that US is the best place for your career and family, why you not cling on to H1b until GC comes? You might probably create the same thread again in three years if you reapply and get, better to give a pass! At least you could save some bucks and time.
 
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aashay12

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again Canada is an option, not a choice. Going to India is never going to happen. I hate india.
so Canada becomes an option.
I could writeoff the relocation and application costs under NAFTA....
 

DEEPCUR

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again Canada is an option, not a choice. Going to India is never going to happen. I hate india.
so Canada becomes an option.
I could writeoff the relocation and application costs under NAFTA....
But being employed in our own profession is important right? Why not check Australia and see if your prospects are better there?
 

aashay12

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Australia is a lot of time zones apart, a lot of work depends on the US market, so got to be physically present either
in CST or EST, nothing else will work.
I gave a thought about Australia, but its such a small market and so far from here.
I guess some people are restricted than others....
 

justinline

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May 19, 2009
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again Canada is an option, not a choice. Going to India is never going to happen. I hate india.
so Canada becomes an option.
I could writeoff the relocation and application costs under NAFTA....

Man....dont hate any country, You can be aspirational immigrant for one country without being hateful to others. Dont make hate towards India as a driving force to look for any other alternative but India. I am saying this out of experience. I have seen cases, lost patience for GC in US so moved Canada, then stayed here for while could not get used to Canadian weather and job market, with no option tried to move back to US but could not so packed up moved back to India. Canada has its own challenges, it will provide you with ample hoops to jump upon, what will count then how much are you able to love this country and not the hate for some other country.

I am very much in the same boat, believe me in my journey there were so many ups and downs, where wrapping up and moving to India looked much better option. So do not discount any country however little it has to offer.

As for better life, preconceived equation is always US is better than Canada, Canada better than India and so on so forth. You dont have to be apologetic or driven by hate of another country for seeking a better life, you are doing everything legally and standing in line to exercise those options. Also do not compare India, Canada and US in one to one comparative points. They are very different countries, dont hate a country however little it has to offer. Circumstances change in life, that little starts to look like a lot more in those circumstances.

I must admit, I was making the same mistakes in my thought process earlier when I moved to Canada, try to minimize it. It will greatly improve your chances to succeed in Canada. Tap into positive energies rather than negative ones.......thats all I am saying.
 

DEEPCUR

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Man....dont hate any country, You can be aspirational immigrant for one country without being hateful to others. Dont make hate towards India as a driving force to look for any other alternative but India. I am saying this out of experience. I have seen cases, lost patience for GC in US so moved Canada, then stayed here for while could not get used to Canadian weather and job market, with no option tried to move back to US but could not so packed up moved back to India. Canada has its own challenges, it will provide you with ample hoops to jump upon, what will count then how much are you able to love this country and not the hate for some other country.

I am very much in the same boat, believe me in my journey there were so many ups and downs, where wrapping up and moving to India looked much better option. So do not discount any country however little it has to offer.

As for better life, preconceived equation is always US is better than Canada, Canada better than India and so on so forth. You dont have to be apologetic or driven by hate of another country for seeking a better life, you are doing everything legally and standing in line to exercise those options. Also do not compare India, Canada and US in one to one comparative points. They are very different countries, dont hate a country however little it has to offer. Circumstances change in life, that little starts to look like a lot more in those circumstances.

I must admit, I was making the same mistakes in my thought process earlier when I moved to Canada, try to minimize it. It will greatly improve your chances to succeed in Canada. Tap into positive energies rather than negative ones.......thats all I am saying.

Hi Justin

Do you still repent moving to Canada or you are doing okay now? If stability and peace of mind are preferences over money, would you still recommend Canada, or one is better off staying in US with H1b visa (with March 2016 PD)?

I have followed your posts in other threads and in Trackitt on moving to Canada from US. I believe you are one of the very few who boldly took a step to move to Canada ditching US. Would be good to know how it feels after few years being there!
 

justinline

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Hello DEEPCUR,

I did move with lot of grudge and repent, you will find that in my old posts. I want to say right now I am comfortable with the decision I made, took calculated risk and did all right for myself. Believe me I am not one of the few bold ones as you mention(neither bold or few, I am not bold just driven by necessity), there are literally tons of people who have done it. I have met people with PD as early as 2006, most in 2008-2012 range, one thing you would see in near future these Canada returns will start queuing for GC as their dates will become current. They will also consume lot of visa numbers along with porting.

With PD in 2016 (in my opinion....assuming its India and not Eb1) there is no reason to hang around in US just waiting. With my EB2I Apr 2010 PD I dont see getting EAD next 3-5 years, actual GC would be another 3-5 years, in all another 7-10 years. The assumption in this calculation itself is very dicey, imagine scenario with no spill overs, continued porting and Canada return crowd ...........I might be looking at another 15-20 years.

I must disclose that right now I am contemplating doing Monday-Friday travel to US for my project work. I dint want to let go this project as it will give me lot of remote support work even after the project is done. But long run I donot have any plans to leave Canada.

Justin
 
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