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Establishing Canadian Citizenship By Descent As An Adult

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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Here's an example of a case of descent from a Canadian-born grandparent that gives Canadian citizenship to the grandchild:

Grandfather: born in Canada in 1958, became U.S. citizen in 1980. Dual citizenship allowed as of 1977.
Son: born in USA in 1982, Canadian citizen at birth. Requirement to register eliminated in 1977.
Granddaughter: born in USA in 2007, Canadian citizen at birth. Requirement to retain by age 28 eliminated in 2009.
Grandson: born in USA in 2010, not a Canadian citizen due to 2009 restriction on citizenship by descent.
 

aliozhiya

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Dec 6, 2017
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Under the first Canadian Citizenship Act, a person born in Canada (even if not living in Canada) automatically became a Canadian citizen on January 1, 1947, unless the person had taken another citizenship before then. A Canadian man's child, born abroad in wedlock (or a Canadian woman's child, born abroad out of wedlock), who was already born, but a minor (under 21) on January 1, 1947, also became a citizen on that day. However, the child had to confirm his/her citizenship and renounce any foreign citizenship within one year of reaching adulthood. Your husband's grandfather was 17 on January 1, 1947, so considered a minor. Since I'm sure that your husband's father would not have renounced his U.S. citizenship, he would have lost his Canadian citizenship when he turned 22. So, he was not a Canadian citizen when your husband was born, which means that your husband never became a Canadian citizen. Even if your husband's father was a Canadian citizen in 1972, your husband's birth would have had to be registered for him to have become a Canadian citizen. While there are situations where a grandparent's birth in Canada leads to a person inheriting Canadian citizenship, everyone in this scenario was born too early for that to work out in this case.
I wish I knew more than my husband's father and grandfather stayed in close contact with their family in Ontario. They'd go over there pretty much every Sunday for dinner. I tried to ask a few people who would maybe know if it could have been possible that my husband's father birth would have been registered in Canada. I was told that back then no one worried about who was a citizen of what country that people was just people and that imaginary border wasn't yet a thing. From where they lived in New York to where their family lived in Ontario was less than 20 or so miles. I suppose that wasn't enough.

If the citizenship wouldn't apply to my husband and only to his father then would I believe it's instant permanent resident status or would he just have to go through the whole application and so on?

Sorry for all the questions.
 

alphazip

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I wish I knew more than my husband's father and grandfather stayed in close contact with their family in Ontario. They'd go over there pretty much every Sunday for dinner. I tried to ask a few people who would maybe know if it could have been possible that my husband's father birth would have been registered in Canada. I was told that back then no one worried about who was a citizen of what country that people was just people and that imaginary border wasn't yet a thing. From where they lived in New York to where their family lived in Ontario was less than 20 or so miles. I suppose that wasn't enough.

If the citizenship wouldn't apply to my husband and only to his father then would I believe it's instant permanent resident status or would he just have to go through the whole application and so on?

Sorry for all the questions.
Your husband's father's birth wouldn't have had to be registered. He became a citizen automatically when the Canadian Citizenship Act took effect. The people who had to register were those born abroad between 1947 and 1977, but they could only be registered if their father (or mother if out of wedlock) was a Canadian citizen at the time of birth.

There is no instant permanent resident status for people with Canadian ancestry. I'm afraid you have to apply like anyone else.
 
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alphazip

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A friend of mine from Quebec sent me some information in detail pertaining the Citizenship Act and the various amendments. It does look like my husband may have a shot obtaining Canadian citizenship by descent. I thought I'd share the link detailing the act and provisions of it.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/section-3.html

Have you seen these provisions? What do you think?
Yes, I have seen those provisions. What specific section do you think applies to your husband?
 
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aliozhiya

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Dec 6, 2017
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What specific section of that link do you think pertains to your husband?
Born before January 1, 1947, outside Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador to a parent who became a citizen under paragraph 3(1)(k) or (m),and did not become a citizen on that date [paragraph 3(1)(o)]
Citizen’s date of birth: before January 1, 1947

Paragraph 3(1)(o) sets out that persons are Canadian citizens if they were born outside Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador before January 1, 1947, to a parent who is a citizen under paragraph 3(1)(k) or (m) and who did not become a Canadian citizen with the coming into force of the Canadian Citizenship Act on January 1, 1947. This provision was introduced in the legislative amendments made to the Citizenship Act on June 11, 2015, and has the effect of retroactively giving citizenship to those described as of January 1, 1947 [pursuant to paragraph 3(7)(k)].

Limit to citizenship by descent [subsection 3(3)]
The Citizenship Act limits citizenship by descent to the first generation born outside Canada to a Canadian parent. As of April 17, 2009, in order for a person born outside Canada to be a citizen by descent, that person must be born in the first generation to a Canadian parent.

This means that, in general, persons who were not already Canadian citizens immediately before April 17, 2009, and who were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent are not Canadian if

  • their Canadian parent was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent (the person is therefore the second or subsequent generation born outside Canada); or
  • their Canadian parent was granted Canadian citizenship under section 5.1, the adoption provisions of the Citizenship Act (the person is therefore the second generation born outside Canada).
Subsection 3(3) of the Citizenship Act specifies that the limit to citizenship by descent applies to persons who are described under paragraph 3(1)(b), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (q), or (r) (i.e., born outside Canada to Canadian parents) and for whom only one parent is a Canadian citizen or both parents are Canadians who were,

  • at the time of that person’s birth, citizens described under either paragraph 3(1)(b), (c.1), (e), (g), (h), (o), (p), (q), or (r);
  • at any time, Canadian citizens under paragraph 3(1)(d), (i), or (j) but who are also citizens by descent and were therefore previously citizens under one of the subparagraphs listed under paragraph 3(3)(b) of the Act;
  • on January 1, 1947, Canadian citizens as described under paragraph 3(1)(o) or (q) and the person was born before January 1, 1947; or
  • on April 1, 1949, Canadian citizens as described under paragraph 3(1)(p) or (r) and the person was born before April 1, 1949.



There are multiple things that seem to apply. Every scenario seems to lead to my husband's grandfather and father both born before 1947 did not become citizens on that day because they both were living in the US and had served in the military during WWI & WWII thus making them not eligible at first for Citizenship because of serving in another country military where they had become naturalized US citizens. Basically, dual nationality wasn't accepted or allowed. When they changed it and made it legal and acceptable they both were retroactively made Canadian Citizens. Which made my husband first generation in 2009.

My two oldest children are eligible by descent because they were born before 2009 thus making my youngest child not eligible because he was born after April 2009. Which he will have to become a citizen by the way of grant.

Wow reading all this and going over it again and makes my head hurt.

I do know that my husband's grandfather never renounced his Canadian identity in the US because on any and every record he listed himself as Canadian born in the place of asking what his citizenship was. I went back and looked thru everything I could find that would possibly have it.
 

alphazip

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Born before January 1, 1947, outside Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador to a parent who became a citizen under paragraph 3(1)(k) or (m),and did not become a citizen on that date [paragraph 3(1)(o)]
Citizen’s date of birth: before January 1, 1947

Paragraph 3(1)(o) sets out that persons are Canadian citizens if they were born outside Canada and Newfoundland and Labrador before January 1, 1947, to a parent who is a citizen under paragraph 3(1)(k) or (m) and who did not become a Canadian citizen with the coming into force of the Canadian Citizenship Act on January 1, 1947. This provision was introduced in the legislative amendments made to the Citizenship Act on June 11, 2015, and has the effect of retroactively giving citizenship to those described as of January 1, 1947 [pursuant to paragraph 3(7)(k)].

Limit to citizenship by descent [subsection 3(3)]
The Citizenship Act limits citizenship by descent to the first generation born outside Canada to a Canadian parent. As of April 17, 2009, in order for a person born outside Canada to be a citizen by descent, that person must be born in the first generation to a Canadian parent.

This means that, in general, persons who were not already Canadian citizens immediately before April 17, 2009, and who were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent are not Canadian if

  • their Canadian parent was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent (the person is therefore the second or subsequent generation born outside Canada); or
  • their Canadian parent was granted Canadian citizenship under section 5.1, the adoption provisions of the Citizenship Act (the person is therefore the second generation born outside Canada).
Subsection 3(3) of the Citizenship Act specifies that the limit to citizenship by descent applies to persons who are described under paragraph 3(1)(b), (f), (g), (h), (i), (j), (q), or (r) (i.e., born outside Canada to Canadian parents) and for whom only one parent is a Canadian citizen or both parents are Canadians who were,

  • at the time of that person’s birth, citizens described under either paragraph 3(1)(b), (c.1), (e), (g), (h), (o), (p), (q), or (r);
  • at any time, Canadian citizens under paragraph 3(1)(d), (i), or (j) but who are also citizens by descent and were therefore previously citizens under one of the subparagraphs listed under paragraph 3(3)(b) of the Act;
  • on January 1, 1947, Canadian citizens as described under paragraph 3(1)(o) or (q) and the person was born before January 1, 1947; or
  • on April 1, 1949, Canadian citizens as described under paragraph 3(1)(p) or (r) and the person was born before April 1, 1949.



There are multiple things that seem to apply. Every scenario seems to lead to my husband's grandfather and father both born before 1947 did not become citizens on that day because they both were living in the US and had served in the military during WWI & WWII thus making them not eligible at first for Citizenship because of serving in another country military where they had become naturalized US citizens. Basically, dual nationality wasn't accepted or allowed. When they changed it and made it legal and acceptable they both were retroactively made Canadian Citizens. Which made my husband first generation in 2009.

My two oldest children are eligible by descent because they were born before 2009 thus making my youngest child not eligible because he was born after April 2009. Which he will have to become a citizen by the way of grant.

Wow reading all this and going over it again and makes my head hurt.

I do know that my husband's grandfather never renounced his Canadian identity in the US because on any and every record he listed himself as Canadian born in the place of asking what his citizenship was. I went back and looked thru everything I could find that would possibly have it.
First, you're saying that your husband's grandfather was a naturalized U.S. citizen, then later you're saying that he never gave up his Canadian citizenship. Both can't be true. If he did become a naturalized U.S. citizen before 1947, then he did not became a Canadian citizen in 1947. (He would have become a Canadian citizen in 2015, if he had been living.)

I don't find the sections you just quoted in the link you sent before: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/section-3.html Instead, they refer to the changes that took place in 2009 and 2015.

I'm afraid that you're cherry-picking sections of various acts that you think support your case. In each case, there's an explanation for why the section doesn't apply to your husband, but I've already given the main reasons above. Of course, you're free to apply for citizenship certificates for your children and get a decision from IRCC.
 

aliozhiya

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Dec 6, 2017
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First, you're saying that your husband's grandfather was a naturalized U.S. citizen, then later you're saying that he never gave up his Canadian citizenship. Both can't be true. If he did become a naturalized U.S. citizen before 1947, then he did not became a Canadian citizen in 1947. (He would have become a Canadian citizen in 2015, if he had been living.)

I don't find the sections you just quoted in the link you sent before: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-29/section-3.html Instead, they refer to the changes that took place in 2009 and 2015.

I'm afraid that you're cherry-picking sections of various acts that you think support your case. In each case, there's an explanation for why the section doesn't apply to your husband, but I've already given the main reasons above. Of course, you're free to apply for citizenship certificates for your children and get a decision from IRCC.
The reason I said he was naturalized because of his military service. I had read that those who enlisted or drafted into WWI and WWII was naturalized thru their service.

Before the recognition of dual citizenship, Canada didn't allow those who joined a foreign military to remain citizens. At that time, service in the US military granted citizenship along with being born in New York. But the changes in 1977 changed all that. I will say it does get a bit confusing and ultimately it will be up to the discretion of IRCC if the requirements are met. I can see both sides actually.

I hope to figure it out and can decide which avenue to finally take since no matter what my husband wants to move up there.

I was quoting and asking you what you're thoughts was on it. I do get multiple different answers from different people.
 

hawk39

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Mar 26, 2017
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Unfortunately, I don't think that would apply to your husband's grandfather. The last sentence in that paragraph says "Persons who had voluntarily renounced British subject status or had their British subject status revoked are not included in the grant." So by your own admission that he was naturalized as a US citizen by serving in World War I, and voluntarily renounced his British subject status by doing so; according to British Nationalty Law, "A British subject who acquired foreign citizenship by naturalisation before 1949 were deemed to have lost his or her British subject status at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law)".
 

aliozhiya

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Dec 6, 2017
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Unfortunately, I don't think that would apply to your husband's grandfather. The last sentence in that paragraph says "Persons who had voluntarily renounced British subject status or had their British subject status revoked are not included in the grant." So by your own admission that he was naturalized as a US citizen by serving in World War I, and voluntarily renounced his British subject status by doing so; according to British Nationalty Law, "A British subject who acquired foreign citizenship by naturalisation before 1949 were deemed to have lost his or her British subject status at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law)".
I think this reads a bit better...

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Canadian_nationality_law
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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The reason I said he was naturalized because of his military service. I had read that those who enlisted or drafted into WWI and WWII was naturalized thru their service.

Before the recognition of dual citizenship, Canada didn't allow those who joined a foreign military to remain citizens. At that time, service in the US military granted citizenship along with being born in New York. But the changes in 1977 changed all that. I will say it does get a bit confusing and ultimately it will be up to the discretion of IRCC if the requirements are met. I can see both sides actually.

I hope to figure it out and can decide which avenue to finally take since no matter what my husband wants to move up there.

I was quoting and asking you what you're thoughts was on it. I do get multiple different answers from different people.
Serving in the U.S. military doesn't "automatically" naturalize an alien (https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/United_States_World_War_I_Naturalization_and_Citizenship), though many non-citizens who joined the military did choose to naturalize at that time. My Canadian-born uncle naturalized in 1944 while serving in the U.S. Army. (His former nationality is given as British.) Therefore, he, unlike my father, did not become a Canadian citizen in 1947. If you want to know whether your husband's grandfather naturalized during his service in WWI, look at his entry in the 1940 census. Under the citizenship column, does it have Na (naturalized) or Al (alien)? However, whether your husband's grandfather did or did not naturalize doesn't change the result for your husband and children.

Yes, the new Citizenship Act in 1977 made dual citizenship possible for people who took another citizenship in 1977 and later years; it was not retroactive. The 1977 act does not apply to your husband's grandfather, your husband's father, or your husband. They are all governed by the 1946 act, AND the 2009/20015 changes. Those changes gave (or returned, depending on whether the grandfather became a U.S. citizen) Canadian citizenship to the grandfather and father, but they did nothing for your husband, who is the 2nd generation born abroad. (Generation 1: husband's father, born in USA in 1929; Generation 2: husband, born in USA in 1972). For your husband to be a Canadian citizen now, he had to have been a citizen immediately before April 17, 2009, when the restriction of one generation born abroad was placed on citizenship by descent, and he clearly was not. Why? Because 1) your husband's father was not a Canadian citizen when your husband was born, and 2) even if the father had been a citizen, your husband's birth would have had to be registered. (He was born five years before the registration requirement was eliminated in 1977.) If it was not registered, how could your husband have been a citizen immediately before April 17, 2009?

As PMM suggested at the beginning of this discussion, go to the "Am I Canadian" tool (https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto) and answer the questions as if you are your husband. You can even tick this box: "Born between January 1, 1947, and February 14, 1977, and at least one of my birth parents was a Canadian citizen when I was born." Of course, answer that neither parent applied for citizenship and that your husband's birth was not registered. What result do you get?
 
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alphazip

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Unfortunately, I don't think that would apply to your husband's grandfather. The last sentence in that paragraph says "Persons who had voluntarily renounced British subject status or had their British subject status revoked are not included in the grant." So by your own admission that he was naturalized as a US citizen by serving in World War I, and voluntarily renounced his British subject status by doing so; according to British Nationalty Law, "A British subject who acquired foreign citizenship by naturalisation before 1949 were deemed to have lost his or her British subject status at the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law)".
While it is true that British subjects lost their British subject status by taking a foreign citizenship, the sentence you quoted does not apply to that type of situation. When it says "voluntarily renounced," it is talking about the type of formal renunciation that would have been made before British/Canadian officials. The whole purpose of the 2015 amendments was to include people who would have become Canadian citizens (and their children in the first generation born abroad) on January 1, 1947, except that they had lost their British subject status before that date. In most cases, this was because they had become citizens of a foreign country. So, the 2015 amendments were meant to fill the gaps in the 2009 amendments, and thereby make Canadian citizens of virtually everyone who was born in Canada at any time (and their children in the first generation born abroad), regardless of what other citizenships they acquired.
 

chelebuckley

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Dec 26, 2018
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I have read most of the above scenario's and done the brief citizenship check and it appears that I may be eligible for citizenship due to the several law changes over the years.
I was born to a Canadian mother. She was born in Nova Scotia, aprox 5 May 1916. She left Canada aprox 1947 with a contingent of Canadian nurses to work at a hospital in Durban, South Africa. She married a South African. I was born in 1958. I left South Africa in 1998 and currently reside in Australia as an Australian citizen. Many times over the past 40 years I have looked at the process of picking up Canadian citizenship but it has seemed too difficult to pursue. I have extensive family across Canada and would like to become a citizen to allow for an extended stay to connect with my Canadian roots as I have the financial means to do so now. I understand that I would need to apply to the citizenship certificate first ?, however, I am a bit challenged on how to obtain my mother's birth certificate for starters. Any suggestions and feedback would be welcome.