Establishing Canadian Citizenship By Descent As An Adult

[SelflessG]

Hello,

I am seeking information on a particular issue which can probably only come from personal experience. I am hoping someone in this forum is knowledgeable regarding establishing Canadian citizenship by descent in the case of an adult who was born in the USA, has lived their entire life in the USA, now wishes to immigrate to Canada and (technically, at least) may already be a Canadian citizen by descent.

I know Canadian immigration law says that children born of a parent who was a Canadian citizen (either by birth or naturalization) at the time of their birth in a country other than Canada is a Canadian citizen and can obtain certification as such. However, I'm pretty certain that the intent of this provision is to guarantee the extension of citizenship to children of life-long Canadians who happen to have born children while residing in other countries. I can't believe that the intent of the lawmakers was to extend Canadian citizenship to the children of people who left Canada over sixty years ago to become citizens of the USA.

I was pleased to discover that the citizenship-by-descent provision is unambiguous on this matter. I can certainly prove that I qualify for citizenship according to the legal definition. The problems start when I fill out the certification applcation form and discover that I need to account for the time my parents and I have "spent away" from Canada. Well, in the case of my parents that would be 1948 to the present. In my case, that would be my entire life. The intent of these questions is clearly to differentiate between children born abroad to "real" Canadians and people who base their claim to citizenship on what some might consider an historical accident.

So my question is: To what extent are the CIC officials who decide such matters bound by "the letter Of the law" as opposed to "the spirit of the law" (which in this case may not be exactly the same)? A determination based solely on the law would affirm my Canadian citizenship but a discretionary determination based on the facts presented in my application might not.

Ultimately I will "try it and see". But if anybody has experience in a similar situation I would appreciate any information they would be willing to share. I realize that what I've written is a very general statement of the issue and may be somewhat cryptic. I would certainly be willing to provide details to anyone who's interested.

SelflessG

 

[Leon]

As far as I know, there is no interpretation of the rules and it doesn't depend on how long your parents spent living whereever. It depends on a lot of other things like when you were born and what law may have been in effect at that time. If you take the self-assessment at http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp you will have an idea if you are a citizen or not.

They do ask on there if you or your parents left Canada for one or more years before 1977 which I assume may have something to do with some law that was in effect until 1977. I do know that if you were 2nd generation born abroad, you would have had to apply to keep your citizenship before the age of 28 and you would have had to have spent some time in Canada before that so maybe that is why they are asking these questions. If your parents having lived in Canada for x years in order for you to get citizenship were a requirement, it would be on the self-assessment.

 

[SelflessG]

Thankyou for your prompt response, Leon.

I just took the self-assessment test again to refresh my memory. It says I'm probably a Canadian citizen. And, true, it does give the impression that only the immediate details of my birth are relevant. But have you ever seen the application form for certification? They seem quite interestested in everybody's whereabouts prior to 1977. That's what is causing me to wonder about the simplicity of the self-assessment tool.

And as for this this 1977 business - I apparently need to do more research because I have no idea what's significant about 1977. I am only aware of two relevant acts: The immigration act of 1947, which confered Canadian citizenship on my British mother, and the immigration act 0f 2009, which limits the passing-on of citizenship to the first generation but otherwise reaffirms that citizenship is granted to, "people born abroad to a Canadian parent after 1947 who ... never had citizenship ... if they had a Canadian parent who was born or naturalized in Canada."

It all seems so cut and dry until you come to the question on the application asking you to account for the time you've "spent away" from Canada and you have to explain that you have never really lived there. If only the state affairs at the time of your birth matter why are they asking for an accounting of subsequent events?

Perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. We'll see.

Thanks again for your interest.

SelflessG

 

[Leon]

There was a change of law in 1977. You can see here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/facts/born_outside.asp that actually, in order for you to become a citizen if you were born before outside Canada before 1977, your parents should have registered your birth within 2 years. However, the new law says you can be a citizen anyway.

 

[SelflessG]

Thanks for the link. I now have a better grasp of the progression from the 1947 law to the 1977 and 2009 laws. I have to admit, though, that in reading this page I have discovered an aspect of the 2009 law that I hadn't heard about before which raises a new question.

It is this: "The new law also ends the need to retain citizenship for many people. However, people born outside Canada who were subject to the retention rules and who turned 28 before the new law came into effect must have taken action to retain their citizenship. The new law will not restore citizenship to people who lost it because they did not meet that requirement before turning 28."

I have spent all afternoon combing the CIC site and I still don't what they mean by the "retention rules" and whether I would be subject to them. I get the impression that the 2009 law is not purely retroactive and that one must have taken some kind of action during the intervening years in order to still be in the game.

 

[Leon]

The only people who were subjected to retention rules were second generation born abroad. That is if your parents were not born in Canada but your grandparents and your parents had gained citizenship through them. With the old law, that means that you would still have gotten citizenship but you would have had to apply to retain it before the age of 28 and you would have had to spend some time in Canada before that. People who didn't do that lost their claim to citizenship and do not get it back with the new law. However, the new law did allow people of the 2nd generation who already had citizenship and who were not 28 yet to keep their citizenship without the need to retain any more. With the new law, 2nd generation born in April 2009 or later do not get citizenship automatically any more.

 

[SelflessG]

Thank you for that cogent explanation. I couldn't find anything on the CIC website that clear-cut. One more possible "gotcha" disposed of. Whew!

 

[2013]

hi does anyone know whether this makes me a canadian citizen?
my dad was born in the uk , he got his canadian passport in 1967 because his dad was born in winnipeg.
I was born in 1971 in the uk.This is all very confusing.
please help.
thanks

 

[Leon]

You are likely a Canadian citizen according to the self-test, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/tool_04.asp

The key info is that your dad got his Canadian passport before you were born and you were born before Feb 14th 1977. If you had been born after Feb 14th 1977, you would have had the obligation to stay in Canada for a year and then apply to retain your citizenship before the age of 28. However, because you were born before the 1977 law, that does not apply to you.

You should go ahead and apply for a citizenship certificate, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof-how.asp

 

[2013]

hi thanks
iam just waiting for my father to get his citizenship certificate as we only have his old passport which they cant use as proof.
many thanks.

 

[dpipe]

Scenario:

My grandfather was born and raised in Quebec and immigrated to the US (NYC) with his parents in the 1950s (legally) when he was around 12 years old and never lived there again. He married and had children in the US all between 1964-1974 (my mom is one of them) and to my knowledge his wife never applied for citizenship nor did he register any of his four children. They never lived in Canada as a family. We still have ancestors in Quebec that are traced through a family tree in bloodline with my grandfathers cousins (His parents nieces, nephews).

Questions:

Who can get citizenship here? (I'm almost certain my mom can.)
Is it possible for myself to obtain citizenship?

 

[PMM]

Hi

Scenario:

My grandfather was born and raised in Quebec and immigrated to the US (NYC) with his parents in the 1950s (legally) when he was around 12 years old and never lived there again. He married and had children in the US all between 1964-1974 (my mom is one of them) and to my knowledge his wife never applied for citizenship nor did he register any of his four children. They never lived in Canada as a family. We still have ancestors in Quebec that are traced through a family tree in bloodline with my grandfathers cousins (His parents nieces, nephews).

Questions:

Who can get citizenship here? (I'm almost certain my mom can.)
Is it possible for myself to obtain citizenship?

Your mother is probably a Canadian citizen. YOu are probably not.

 

[dpipe]

I know I am not. But can I become one? Would I count as first generation if my mom got it and then applied for mine since she is technically a citizen form birth?

 

[scylla]

I know I am not. But can I become one? Would I count as first generation if my mom got it and then applied for mine since she is technically a citizen form birth?

You should take the citizenship test. It will tell you immediately.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp

 

[Leon]

It is a question if your mother was considered a Canadian citizen at the time you were born because she was not registered at the time.

If your mother was not considered a Canadian citizen when you were born, you are probably not a Canadian citizen either.

However, there have been changes in the citizenship act over the years. It can matter when your mother was born, when you were born etc. Let your mother apply for the Canadian citizenship certificate first. If she gets one, try to apply for yours. If you are refused, then you know for sure.