Are americans really going to do it?

[itsmyid]

If you're entrepreneurial then establishing a startup in Canada, hiring local cheaper talent, and doing business with US clients might be a good deal. Furthermore, it is easy to fly into the US and meet clients, etc.

The thing is, if it is that easy to establish startup and succeed in Canada, it would have already had its own Google, Facebook and etc. - not to discourage anyone here, but just a reminder for people who want to move here to keep a realistic expectation and make your decision rationally.

By reading all the inquiries I got the impression that people didn't even think it through when they thought they wanted to move to Canada after the election - when you start with asking 'what's the first step', that pretty much means you have no clue what you are going into... when I moved to Canada a few years ago it was a well-thought decision for me with months of consideration (going back and forward) and planning, I did my homework with the information on CIC website (which is basically all you need to know) before asking any questions on any forums, and landed my job before I quit my old job and moved here. - yet even today I am still not entirely sure it was the right move lol... and it was relatively simple since I am single, if you a moving your entire family there would be much more things to consider.

 

[deadbird]

The thing is, if it is that easy to establish startup and succeed in Canada, it would have already had its own Google, Facebook and etc. - not to discourage anyone here, but just a reminder for people who want to move here to keep a realistic expectation and make your decision rationally.

By reading all the inquiries I got the impression that people didn't even think it through when they thought they wanted to move to Canada after the election - when you start with asking 'what's the first step', that pretty much means you have no clue what you are going into... when I moved to Canada a few years ago it was a well-thought decision for me with months of consideration (going back and forward) and planning, I did my homework with the information on CIC website (which is basically all you need to know) before asking any questions on any forums, and landed my job before I quit my old job and moved here. - yet even today I am still not entirely sure it was the right move lol... and it was relatively simple since I am single, if you a moving your entire family there would be much more things to consider.

There is only one Google, one Facebook and one Apple. Not every company needs to or can become one of these giants. There is a space for smaller to medium scale startups that can operate in a lean fashion in many Canadian cities (e.g. see this one in Montreal - http://builtinmtl.com/). Besides given the US's increasingly unfriendly immigration policies, there's a tremendous opportunity to be able to find top talent in Canadian cities.

Finding a job vs creating jobs requires a different mindset and risk appetite; but it nevertheless provides income and employment opportunities for those with the drive and the flexibility. I agree with you that once you have a family things get increasingly more complicated.

 

[itsmyid]

There is only one Google, one Facebook and one Apple. Not every company needs to or can become one of these giants. There is a space for smaller to medium scale startups that can operate in a lean fashion in many Canadian cities (e.g. see this one in Montreal - http://builtinmtl.com/). Besides given the US's increasingly unfriendly immigration policies, there's a tremendous opportunity to be able to find top talent in Canadian cities.

Finding a job vs creating jobs requires a different mindset and risk appetite; but it nevertheless provides income and employment opportunities for those with the drive and the flexibility. I agree with you that once you have a family things get increasingly more complicated.

by ' US's increasingly unfriendly immigration policies' you meant policy for illegal immigrant, right? Since as far as I know, for legal immigration the policy have barely changed in the last couple of decades, one can go through
- Employment-based
- Family-based
- refugee
- diversity (lottery )

and it has been this way for a long time

 

[deadbird]

by ' US's increasingly unfriendly immigration policies' you meant policy for illegal immigrant, right? Since as far as I know, for legal immigration the policy have barely changed in the last couple of decades, one can go through
- Employment-based
- Family-based
- refugee
- diversity (lottery )

and it has been this way for a long time

That's precisely the problem. It hasn't changed w.r.t the current demand and global economic migration trends.

- H1b visas have a 25% probability of getting approved if you don't have a US degree and still 50% if you do.
- EB2 green card applications wait times for some countries like India are a joke - http://immigrationgirl.com/what-is-the-real-wait-time-for-eb-2-india-82-5-years/
- Family based immigration for some countries like Mexico are heavily queued up as well - https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/law-and-policy/bulletin/2017/visa-bulletin-for-november-2016.html

 

[itsmyid]

That's precisely the problem. It hasn't changed w.r.t the current demand and global economic migration trends.

- H1b visas have a 25% probability of getting approved if you don't have a US degree and still 50% if you do.
- EB2 green card applications wait times for some countries like India are a joke - http://immigrationgirl.com/what-is-the-real-wait-time-for-eb-2-india-82-5-years/
- Family based immigration for some countries like Mexico are heavily queued up as well - https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/law-and-policy/bulletin/2017/visa-bulletin-for-november-2016.html

I thought my question was about the policies being 'increasingly unfriendly', but since we are on those things you mentioned
- H1b visa shortage is mainly due to the abuse and fraudulent filing by certain so called 'consulting' companies, who take huge portion of annual quota and result in lottery from day one in recent years, and another side effect is, regular law-abiding employers become more and more hesitant to sponsor, which in turn gives more H1bs to those IT consulting firms. Up until 2006, there was never anything like that and H1B quota didn't exhaust until late in the summer or early fall.
- EB2 wait time for Indian is the result of much higher number of Indian applicants, which would be unfair for applicant from the rest of the world if they are treated in the same line
- Family based immigration: again, it is determined by how many people from those countries are already let in for that year - and one main focus of US immigration is the diversity

 

[scylla]

- Family based immigration for some countries like Mexico are heavily queued up as well - https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/law-and-policy/bulletin/2017/visa-bulletin-for-november-2016.html

Yes - but these queues are generally for family immigration categories Canada doesn't even allow (e.g. adult sibling sponsorship).

Parent sponsorship is faster in the US than Canada (although limited to USC). Same generally goes for spousal sponsorship provided your are a USC.

Canada, on the other hand, doesn't have minimum income requirements for spousal sponsorship (US does).

Pros and cons to both. The US does however allow a greater scope of family member sponsorship.

 

[deadbird]

Yes - but these queues are generally for family immigration categories Canada doesn't even allow (e.g. adult sibling sponsorship).

Parent sponsorship is faster in the US than Canada (although limited to USC). Same generally goes for spousal sponsorship provided your are a USC.

Canada, on the other hand, doesn't have minimum income requirements for spousal sponsorship (US does).

Pros and cons to both. The US does however allow a greater scope of family member sponsorship.

It maybe faster after your application is submitted but it is still slower overall. You need to be a US citizen to sponsor your parents which takes green card + 5 years (https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/parents/bringing-parents-live-united-states-permanent-residents). Also, it takes another additional 5 years for your parents to be eligible for Medicare/medicaid during which time you have to get very expensive health insurance premiums and risk getting all your savings wiped should your parents be denied coverage under pre-existing conditions.

 

[itsmyid]

It maybe faster after your application is submitted but it is still slower overall. You need to be a US citizen to sponsor your parents which takes green card + 5 years (https://www.uscis.gov/family/family-us-citizens/parents/bringing-parents-live-united-states-permanent-residents). Also, it takes another additional 5 years for your parents to be eligible for Medicare/medicaid during which time you have to get very expensive health insurance premiums and risk getting all your savings wiped should your parents be denied coverage under pre-existing conditions.

In Canada you need to sponsor your parents for 20 years, during which they will be covered by universal healthcare that doesn't include prescription drugs and vision/dental, and they won't be eligible for most of government assistance programs

 

[Rob_TO]

by ' US's increasingly unfriendly immigration policies' you meant policy for illegal immigrant, right? Since as far as I know, for legal immigration the policy have barely changed in the last couple of decades

I think this also may be referring to the election promise from Trump that they will start outright banning all visitors/immigration from Muslim countries.

 

[deadbird]

I thought my question was about the policies being 'increasingly unfriendly', but since we are on those things you mentioned
- H1b visa shortage is mainly due to the abuse and fraudulent filing by certain so called 'consulting' companies, who take huge portion of annual quota and result in lottery from day one in recent years, and another side effect is, regular law-abiding employers become more and more hesitant to sponsor, which in turn gives more H1bs to those IT consulting firms. Up until 2006, there was never anything like that and H1B quota didn't exhaust until late in the summer or early fall.
- EB2 wait time for Indian is the result of much higher number of Indian applicants, which would be unfair for applicant from the rest of the world if they are treated in the same line
- Family based immigration: again, it is determined by how many people from those countries are already let in for that year - and one main focus of US immigration is the diversity

I thought my question was about the policies being 'increasingly unfriendly', but since we are on those things you mentioned
- H1b visa shortage is mainly due to the abuse and fraudulent filing by certain so called 'consulting' companies, who take huge portion of annual quota and result in lottery from day one in recent years, and another side effect is, regular law-abiding employers become more and more hesitant to sponsor, which in turn gives more H1bs to those IT consulting firms. Up until 2006, there was never anything like that and H1B quota didn't exhaust until late in the summer or early fall.
- EB2 wait time for Indian is the result of much higher number of Indian applicants, which would be unfair for applicant from the rest of the world if they are treated in the same line
- Family based immigration: again, it is determined by how many people from those country are already let in - and one main focus of US immigration is the diversity

- H1b visas are oversubscribed because of several reasons. You only mention one and there are clearly fixes to them. However, there is no desire to fix them since it benefits the status quo. I'll list two reasons.

(Reason 1) H1b visa abuse can easily be fixed if minimum salary standards are raised since only meritorious candidates who can fetch those kind of salaries would be hired. But there is no political will to do so since american industry benefits by having cheap labor. It's a form of indentured servitude that american society is quite well versed in.
(Reason 2) There is just more supply of high skilled talent from the rest of the world. The current cap of 65000 does not meet this supply at all. The quota is a form of protectionism by restricting trade in human capital.

- Per country quotas are basically a smart proxy for modern day racism. How does it matter which country you are born in as long as you possess the qualifications? Hardly any country in the world has per country immigration limits. It goes to the core question whether you think that all humans are created equal or not regardless of their origins.

- As I just mentioned, "diversity" is merely a proxy to ensuring that the societal fabric of america remains majority white. Why does diversity have to come at cost of the uniting families? Why are they mutually exclusive? There can be a diversity quota in addition to meeting the existing demand to reunite families.

 

[deadbird]

In Canada you need to sponsor your parents for 20 years, during which they will be covered by universal healthcare that doesn't include prescription drugs and vision/dental, and they won't be eligible for most of government assistance programs

Prescription drugs, vision/dental, are merely a trifle compared to a full blown emergency room visit.

There are very few government assistance programs in the US and your parents would be inelgible for the ones that do exist such as social security since you did not pay into it.

At this point, I feel that most folks cursing Canada are doing so because of some frustrations they might have encountered living in Canada. To a large extent my criticisms about the US are based on my frustrations living in America as well. However, if you were to sit down and compare them head to head, the balance of which country is more immigrant friendly and has better social safety nets will be pretty obvious.

 

[itsmyid]

Prescription drugs, vision/dental, are merely a trifle compared to a full blown emergency room visit.

There are very few government assistance programs in the US and your parents would be inelgible for the ones that do exist such as social security since you did not pay into it.

At this point, I feel that most folks cursing Canada are doing so because of some frustrations they might have encountered living in Canada. To a large extent my criticisms about the US are based on my frustrations living in America as well. However, if you were to sit down and compare them head to head, the balance of which country is more immigrant friendly and has better social safety nets will be pretty obvious.

Nobody is cursing any country, just a more realistic picture of what to expect - just because there is universal healthycare doesn't mean you are better off for some people - you probably won't lose your life saving as a result of some treatment , but you may end up dying due to the long delay and low efficiency: a coworker's husband had to endure 3 weeks of excruciating pain from kidney stone to get to see a specialist , and another coworker of mine had to go back to her home country to get a neck surgery done simply because the wait time was too long

 

[deadbird]

Nobody is cursing any country, just a more realistic picture of what to expect - just because there is universal healthycare doesn't mean you are better off for some people - you probably won't lose your life saving as a result of some treatment , but you may end up dying due to the long delay and low efficiency: a coworker's husband had to endure 3 weeks of excruciating pain from kidney stone to get to see a specialist , and another coworker of mine had to go back to her home country to get a neck surgery done simply because the wait time was too long

Sure, I agree with you. It's important to temper unrealistic expectations about the quality of life that either country affords.

On the topic of balance of social safety nets. In risk analysis, we have a term called "Minimax loss" which minimizes the maximum loss that can occur. A rational person would be smart to choose a "minimax loss" policy over one that "maximizes average gain". I'll take Canadian universal health care for emergencies with the option for cheap international medical tourism; over being forced to pay a million USD for a long emergency room visit in the US.

 

[juergens]

I had the opportunity to study in Canada several years ago (Master's degree attained), but found it extremely difficult to remain. My mother had a serious health issue in the U.S. so I returned and took a full-time job. While I had a work permit in Canada, I was never able to obtain a job in Canada. The work permit eventually expired. Since I wasn't presently working in Canada I could not get an extension. Fast forward four years later, nobody in Canada is willing to offer a job and wait months for me to obtain the necessary paperwork. All I am saying is that i have a Canadian connection (a Master's degree from a Canadian university) and don't meet the point requirements for Express Entry. Without a job offer it is very difficult. If you don't have a degree of any kind, if you are past 40, and if you don't have relatives in Canada, the points are against you. I had a grandparent from Canada, but since he is deceased that doesn't count either. It's a very difficult process. Needless to say, i am still in the U.S.A.

 

[vensak]

I had the opportunity to study in Canada several years ago (Master's degree attained), but found it extremely difficult to remain. My mother had a serious health issue in the U.S. so I returned and took a full-time job. While I had a work permit in Canada, I was never able to obtain a job in Canada. The work permit eventually expired. Since I wasn't presently working in Canada I could not get an extension. Fast forward four years later, nobody in Canada is willing to offer a job and wait months for me to obtain the necessary paperwork. All I am saying is that i have a Canadian connection (a Master's degree from a Canadian university) and don't meet the point requirements for Express Entry. Without a job offer it is very difficult. If you don't have a degree of any kind, if you are past 40, and if you don't have relatives in Canada, the points are against you. I had a grandparent from Canada, but since he is deceased that doesn't count either. It's a very difficult process. Needless to say, i am still in the U.S.A.

You do not need any Canadian job experience to be able enter EE. All will happen, that you end up under FSW applicants. IF you get those 67 points on the start (and they are from any job experience from any country around the world) you are good to go. And you will still get points for your canadian diploma.

If your grand parent is deceased, than whoever inherited it (your father or mother) shall apply for citizenship. Once citizenship is there he or she can be additional points and connection for you.
It is possible even for people around 40 to go there but provincial nomination only. For example by saskatchewan is giving lot of points for long work experience. Such points can make up for the age. Same is with New Brunswick, which has special sessions where you can meet officer in person. So in this case provincial nomination.