Application returned from Mississauga

[Crillz]

My girlfriend and I are applying as common-law partners. We sent our application on February 15th after months of putting it together, the ecas was updated on March 16th to say that the application was being returned.

The letter on top of the application says -

"It appears the person you are sponsoring is currently visiting in Canada from Jan 25th, 2011 and will need to leave by Jul 25th 2011. In order to meet the requirement for common law, you must show proof that you have resided together for a minimum of 12 months (current). Previous to January, it appears the person you are sponsoring was residing in Ireland. You do not qualify as common law. However, you could list him and yourself as conjugal partners."

To give a brief background of our case, my girlfriend moved to Ireland from Canada in February 2010 where we lived together until January 25th 2011 at which time we flew to Canada and have lived with my girlfriend's mother since then. My girlfriend had to obtain a working visa to come to Ireland, we have joint bank accounts, joint leases, affidavits, support letters, photos, flight stubs from trips taken, letters from friends and family and loads of other things I can't think of right now.

I called the call centre immediately after I returned from the post office and the girl was very nice and helpful, I explained to her what the letter said and that I didn't understand as we had been living in Ireland together and that is clearly explained in numerous parts of the application like the cover letter, the index listing everything, the relationship timeline from both myself and my girlfriend. She said yes that we do qualify for common-law as we had lived together in Ireland and are living together in Canada, she asked for my girlfriend to call on Monday as she can access more of the file when speaking to the sponsor.

The application was returned pretty much as sent, the only section marked and which was on top was IMM 1344 "Application to sponsor and undertaking" which has the officers ID number and some initials. The officer has highlighted a few of the questions - Section A Question 8. b. "Do you have a conjugal partner" which we answered no. Section C Question 1 he highlighted the section "Marital Status" which we had entered as Common-Law, and finally he highlighted Section C Question 6 A, which is "Address where the person you are sponsoring lives" which we entered as the address I am at in Canada right now with my girlfriend.

We have no idea how to proceed, we believe we do qualify for common-law, and don't see his point of view at all. Worried that if we send it back with a further cover note he will just send it back again delaying the process even further (this will already delay it 2 months and I have had to request a new police certificate). The officer put a sticker with an address at CIC and which has his/her initials on, so it will be going back to the same person.

Any advice would be much appreciated, we are at a complete loss and pretty upset.

 

[sasmak]

I have some experience with the Common-Law issue as having friends applying under the same status.

Basically you do qualify as a common-law couple that is correct, Common-law is even granted for those that have not lived together for the entire year as long as there was a commited relationship and as you say you have evidence to prove it then i do not see an issue.

A friend of mine came to Canada to be with her boyfriend whom they met online and initially entered on a Visitors visa. They provided the same information as you mentioned. Now the difference being is that they applied through Alberta Vegreville with the same supporting evidence such as photos, letters, birthday cards etc. I am not saying Vegreville is better than Mississauga, however they did apply for in-canada application. Whilst the PR was in process the visitors visa expired and she applied for a renewal reason given was that she wanted to remain in status whilst her PR was in process and remain with her partner within Canada until a decision had been made.

All was granted by Vegreville. Now from what i can tell you applied outbound thru Mississauga my only feeling is that the Immigration Officer may have felt that you were looking to return home during the process therefore would not be entirely living together which still does not make sense. I believe an error has been made which should be looked into. I have just landed myself and had a terrible time obtaining residence so i know the situation you are in right now. I used a lawyer to get me through the whole process and the case presented with my application the authorities explained everything in black and white. If you would like the number for them they are based in Toronto, not sure where you are at the moment so message me back and i would do all i can to help. As long as you say you have the evidence to back your case you have nothing to worry about.

As for constantly renewing the Police certificate there is really no need to as long as you have an original and as you have not left Canada since it being issued last just include a covering letter when re-submitting that fact. In the event the Immigration officer is not satisfied he/she will request it and will give 90 days to obtain a new one, so not a big deal.

 

[FleetingDasein]

You should definitely consult an immigration lawyer.

I applied through Mississagua as common-law partnership a few months ago, and I didn't have any problems. My partner and I lived in my home country for quite some time --at my mother's house as well, and we included some of that time into our 12 month frame. Mind you, we also lived together in Canada for at least 10 months, and we were able to include a Canadian lease with our application. There must have been something in your application that raised a red-flag. Did you include an statutory declaration of common law union as well? Did you say something about going back home to Ireland?

If you want to compare application materials, feel free to pm me. It really does seem like you did everything right, so who knows. I don't understand the CIC sometimes. Lawyer up and try again! Best of luck.

 

[Baloo]

Common-law is even granted for those that have not lived together for the entire year as long as there was a commited relationship .....

This is incorrect, see this note from the CIC site:

Common-law partner
You are a common-law partner—either of the opposite sex or same sex—if:

you have been living together in a conjugal relationship for at least one year in a continuous 12-month period that was not interrupted.

The only breaks that are allowed are "short absences for business travel or family reasons".

A friend of mine came to Canada to be with her boyfriend whom they met online and initially entered on a Visitors visa. They provided the same information as you mentioned. Now the difference being is that they applied through Alberta Vegreville with the same supporting evidence such as photos, letters, birthday cards etc. I am not saying Vegreville is better than Mississauga, however they did apply for in-canada application. Whilst the PR was in process the visitors visa expired and she applied for a renewal reason given was that she wanted to remain in status whilst her PR was in process and remain with her partner within Canada until a decision had been made.

Even when both partners are in Canada, they can still apply outland and extend their stay, choosing inland would normally be prompted by a different requirement (because inland is not always the best option).

As for constantly renewing the Police certificate there is really no need to as long as you have an original and as you have not left Canada since it being issued last just include a covering letter when re-submitting that fact. In the event the Immigration officer is not satisfied he/she will request it and will give 90 days to obtain a new one, so not a big deal.

A new PCC will be required.

See the CIC site:
"The certificate must have been issued no more than three months before you submit your application."
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/intro.asp




Crillz,
I replied in another thread, as follows:


There is no point in an appeal as it would take too long, you are better off resubmitting, get a new PCC and send the application in again.

I agree with you, from the information given, it looks like the VO didn't read the app' properly.

You say "The officer put a sticker with an address at CIC and which has his/her initials on, so it will be going back to the same person."
IMO This may mean that your app' will to go to the officer when it arrives, rather than just sitting in the queue.

 

[Crillz]

You should definitely consult an immigration lawyer.

I applied through Mississagua as common-law partnership a few months ago, and I didn't have any problems. My partner and I lived in my home country for quite some time --at my mother's house as well, and we included some of that time into our 12 month frame. Mind you, we also lived together in Canada for at least 10 months, and we were able to include a Canadian lease with our application. There must have been something in your application that raised a red-flag. Did you include an statutory declaration of common law union as well? Did you say something about going back home to Ireland?

If you want to compare application materials, feel free to pm me. It really does seem like you did everything right, so who knows. I don't understand the CIC sometimes. Lawyer up and try again! Best of luck.

We didn't include a common-law declaration, but honestly we have been thinking about it recently and the application being returned might be a good opportunity get it done and to include it. We also have gotten a life insurance policy done since the application was sent, so we can include that too.

Honestly I don't think we are going to be able to afford a lawyer, this whole process and coming here to Canada and not being able to work is hard enough as is, I wish we could get legal help but I think we are on our own with this. My intention always was to apply for an extension of my visitor visa to hopefully cover the entire process. I will make this even clearer when we return the application. It would make life so much easier if we could speak to the officer but obviously that is not possible, really don't understand where he/she is coming from.

 

[fleo]

It appears that VO either missed the part of your girlfriend living in Ireland, or - which would be utterly ridiculous, but anything seems possible at this point - since you didn't come to a full year while still in Ireland, doesn't count your time here as living together. (I don't know either, don't ask :)

Get a new PCC and Declaration of Common-law relationship, and have a friend read through your application to make sure it's absolutely clear who lived where and when. (It may seem silly, but facts that are known to you might not seem so obvious to someone who's seeing them for the first time.)

Good luck!

 

[Baloo]

Fleo,

As the notes say:

you have been living together in a conjugal relationship for at least one year in a continuous 12-month period that was not interrupted.
The only breaks that are allowed are "short absences for business travel or family reasons".

It does not matter where you live together, just that you live together, as described above.

 

[canadianwoman]

Send the application back, with a note on top that states that you two lived together in Ireland and in Canada, and that the total time is more than one year.
The visa officer just didn't read the app correctly - maybe looked it over too quickly and didn't notice the 'in Ireland' part.
Don't appeal - it takes too long. Contact your MP for help, stressing that the VO just didn't notice the part about you two living together for a year already.

 

[sasmak]

Everything mentioned by all members is valid, however the part of getting a new Police Clearance is up to the immigration officer. When i submitted my application, I did not submit police certificates until i got my AIP and then i was prompted by the IO that I required them.

So I got my AIP then was asked for Police certificates.

As for being apart in common-law the max is 2 weeks you are allowed to be apart.

 

[Baloo]

This is an outland application.

The checklist states:

"Originals of police certificates and clearances."

The request is that PCC's should be sent with the application.

Notes from the CIC site:
"The certificate must have been issued no more than three months before you submit your application."
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/intro.asp

The intent is to show that the PCC has an expiry time.

As for being apart in common-law the max is 2 weeks you are allowed to be apart.

Can I ask that you link to the definition?

OP 2 section 5.35 does not state two weeks.

5.35
"While cohabitation means living together continuously, from time to time, one or the other partner may have left the home for work or business travel, family obligations, and so on. The separation must be temporary and short."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

 

[Crillz]

My girlfriend is just off the phone again with the call centre. She again backed up what the last one said that he just didn't read it properly, rushed it or whatever. We went through all the questions with her to make sure it wasn't something we did that lead him astray, but no everything is in order.

It's pretty ridiculous, we had ONTOP of the application a relationship timeline which shows very obviously with bullet points and dates where we were and when. He also mixed up many of the pages of the application yet didn't bother reading them. The call centre girl said to write a letter IN BOLD stating that yes in fact we did live together for 14 months and are now and you can see this stating which pages prove this. The guy is clearly a moron and we need to make it more idiot proof for him. Saying that, we spent weeks making this application idiot proof to begin with so who knows with this.

Advice for anyone submitting a common-law application is to put in massive bold text that you have lived together for more than the required 12 months. Just because they work in an immigration office does not mean they are intelligent or responsible people.

It also seems that some pages are missing from the application, random pages from the proof section. So make sure to photocopy the entire thing before sending. So sick of this process and it really hasn't even begun. It's going to be difficult to write a pleasant reply to this guys letter!

 

[jamaicanincanada]

I know people are human being and make mistakes and all but this is just unacceptable!!! I think CIC should pay the courier fee for resending this application again. This is ridiculous!

 

[Crillz]

I have been thinking we should make a complaint once the application left Mississauga.

It's strange, the pages missing are pages such as my girlfriends work visa for ireland photocopy and passport stamps showing her arriving in Ireland. We numbered every page right before we mailed the package and indexed every paged, and checked 4-5 times that every page was there in order so they were there when sent. But even if he somehow lost these, there is about 150 other pages proving she was living in Ireland with me during that time.

It is also interesting to note, the table of contents, and many of the index we included for different sections were never returned. The TOC clearly in bold has a section named "Documentary Evidence of Co-Habitation and Finances" with pages numbers and details of what's included. However the officer obviously decided this wouldn't be helpful at all and got rid of it. We didn't include the indexes for his benefit, more for the benefit of London and making it easier for them to decipher the different emails, letters of support, conversations, leases, bank statements etc. I couldn't possibly be more furious. If it was my fault I would be the first to admit it and I know mistakes can happen but give me a break, this is just incompetence. And I am not saying all of CIC is incompetent just this particular officer. Everyone else we have dealt with have been pleasant, intelligent and a pleasure to deal with.

 

[FleetingDasein]

Can I ask that you link to the definition?

OP 2 section 5.35 does not state two weeks.

5.35
"While cohabitation means living together continuously, from time to time, one or the other partner may have left the home for work or business travel, family obligations, and so on. The separation must be temporary and short."

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

My common law application had numerous separations, i.e 1-2 months due to family obligations, and everything went through fine. I assume they don't have a cut-off time for separations.

Crillz,
You should definitely file a complaint. I'd wait until the sponsorship is approved and the file is transferred to London, though. Best of luck.

 

[fleo]

It does not matter where you live together, just that you live together, as described above.

Errr, I know But I'm still not convinced that VO wasn't purely incompetent rather than "just" careless, so I;m doing some guesswork.