Applicant from PhD program after 5 Nov, 2011 connect here to get status

[Anna2013]

I guess he refers to other immigration programs such as the PNP in your province (you can apply upto two years after completing your PhD, at-least in Ontario) or the CEC.

For CEC I am not eligible and even when I become eligible, my job letters cannot have one more word more than what they do at this time.

For PNP you need to have some sort of full time employment, I do not have one and I do not see myself having one (I have been applying for jobs for 3-4 years now). I already said, although I have 3+ years Canadian experience, finding job in my field is close to impossible. I graduated 2,5 years ago and have been surviving on part-time or short-term jobs. I want you guys believe me, I hope that none of you going to experience it, but without PR it is "very hard" to keep your life on track, not in all disciplines, but in my field it has been very hard.

 

[Stuck In Quebec]

I guess he refers to other immigration programs such as the PNP in your province (you can apply upto two years after completing your PhD, at-least in Ontario) or the CEC.

Right said Fred! Apt for appropriate. I was advised this by a lawyer too after my Quebec rejection and he told me there are 40 active streams to apply to. Try it out, have a free consultation. Even this forum is on a server managed by David Cohen's firm.

 

[Parkinson]

I also was post-doc, which is also under the NOC 4011. For my postdoc they said the same thing, they said it does not have substantial duties.... Because again postdocs also are not like real faculties and they are not required to teach or serve on committees. However, I was teaching at the same time when I was postdoc.

I think that you chose the wrong NOC code for your postdoc.
I advise you to apply under CEC by selecting the appropriate NOC code. See the link below:

cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/fw01-eng.pdf

"Post-doctoral fellows can be either the direct recipients of an award or be offered a time-limited position to undertake research on behalf of or as part of a team of researchers. Universities vary in their methods and criteria used in assessing candidates and offering post-doctoral fellowships. Officers should assess the written offer from a responsible academic official (professor or higher) which will state the amount of remuneration, location, nature and expected duration of the term of employment, and will not be concerned with the source of remuneration.
Occupational code
Given the absence of an occupational code in the NOC for post-doctoral fellows, please use the applicant‘s specialty. For example, an applicant in Earth Sciences could be coded 2113 as a geologist or 2115.2 as a soil scientist.
Please DO NOT code post-doctoral fellows as post-secondary research assistants, NOC code 4122.1, as this creates internal problems at universities and impacts applications for permanent residence, since the educational and skill levels are lower".

 

[Anna2013]

I think that you chose the wrong NOC code for your postdoc.
I advise you to apply under CEC by selecting the appropriate NOC code. See the link below:

cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/fw/fw01-eng.pdf

"Post-doctoral fellows can be either the direct recipients of an award or be offered a time-limited position to undertake research on behalf of or as part of a team of researchers. Universities vary in their methods and criteria used in assessing candidates and offering post-doctoral fellowships. Officers should assess the written offer from a responsible academic official (professor or higher) which will state the amount of remuneration, location, nature and expected duration of the term of employment, and will not be concerned with the source of remuneration.
Occupational code
Given the absence of an occupational code in the NOC for post-doctoral fellows, please use the applicant‘s specialty. For example, an applicant in Earth Sciences could be coded 2113 as a geologist or 2115.2 as a soil scientist.
Please DO NOT code post-doctoral fellows as post-secondary research assistants, NOC code 4122.1, as this creates internal problems at universities and impacts applications for permanent residence, since the educational and skill levels are lower".

It is under NOC code 4011: http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ViewAllTitlesKeyword.aspx?val=4&val1=4011&val11=instructor&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

When you do click on "View all titles" on NOC 4011 code, postdoctoral fellow is there. And, indeed there is a code for that.

In my rejection, they do not say that your code is wrong. But now, it gives me some hope; thanks... it means that I have something different this time if I apply for CEC, I can get a job letter which relates to my field rather than postdoctoral fellow. But what about my instructorship; how can I fix that? The majority of job that I have is under my instructorship.

What you have quoted above, says "... could choose" though.

 

[Parkinson]

It is under NOC code 4011: http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ViewAllTitlesKeyword.aspx?val=4&val1=4011&val11=instructor&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

When you do click on "View all titles" on NOC 4011 code, postdoctoral fellow is there. And, indeed there is a code for that.

In my rejection, they do not say that your code is wrong.

What you have quoted above, says "... could choose".

They do not say that your code is wrong!!! It's your job to find the code that match better with what you performed. They check if your duties match the code you selected or not.This is exactly the reason I am suggesting you to chose other codes, maybe they match better with the duties you really performed. See page 81 of the pdf file. They obviously mentioned there that a code for postdoc fellows is absent and suggest you other codes which do not include 4011.

 

[Anna2013]

I believe that your letter covered the first 4 duties as an instructor, so 4/6 as the last 3 duties are optional. However, they seem counted them as a must, so you achieved 4/9 which is less than 75%!
No one can guess what they want to be written in those reference letter!

You bad bad bad N_O! You crossed my name in the tracker :-( Just to let you know, you lost a valuable member, although a rejected one ;-)

 

[Anna2013]

They do not say that your code is wrong!!! It's your job to find the code that match better with what you performed. They check if your duties match the code you selected or not.This is exactly the reason I am suggesting you to chose other codes, maybe they match better with the duties you really performed. See page 81 of the pdf file. They obviously mentioned there that a code for postdoc fellows is absent and suggest you other codes which do not include 4011.

Actually, I revised my post above and thanked you for giving me some hope.

But, I was wondering if you also believe that "there is no code in NOC for post-docs"?

Also, how many manuals we are supposed to keep up with? I wasn't even aware there is such a manual.

 

[Parkinson]

Actually, I revised my post above and thanked you for giving me some hope.

But, I was wondering if you also believe that "there is no code in NOC for post-docs"?

Also, how many manuals we are supposed to keep up with? I wasn't even aware there is such a manual.

I'm so happy that you became hopeful again! I also was not aware of this manual. I did some search. I don't believe that the code is absent, that is what I found...They themselves say it is absent although there is a postdoc title under 4011. Actually, I think that you may find some helpful information in CEC forum. There should be many postdocs applying under CEC.

 

[hamed_hamed_hamed]

It is under NOC code 4011: http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/ViewAllTitlesKeyword.aspx?val=4&val1=4011&val11=instructor&val12=0&val13=0&val14=&val15=0&val16=0

When you do click on "View all titles" on NOC 4011 code, postdoctoral fellow is there. And, indeed there is a code for that.

In my rejection, they do not say that your code is wrong. But now, it gives me some hope; thanks... it means that I have something different this time if I apply for CEC, I can get a job letter which relates to my field rather than postdoctoral fellow. But what about my instructorship; how can I fix that? The majority of job that I have is under my instructorship.

What you have quoted above, says "... could choose" though.

Anna, I still think that they should have separated university professors from instructors or they should not have required a "substantial" number of duties. They currently require a "substantial" (not "some") number of duties for each job which is a blind judgement!

Similar problem is with the TA and RA, both listed under a single code, though for them the officers seem to be well educated!

I think you should do two things: Apply for CEC or other categories, and same time meet an MP, and tell them that an instructor does not do anything related to research. If your case survives by accepting you instructorship experience, then do anything for that. Call MP, this is a clear fault to require instructors to do research. As Stuck in Quebec said, consider consulting an immigration specialist.

 

[hamed_hamed_hamed]

You may also consider NOC 4021 College and other vocational instructors. I think its duties better matches your letter, though the "college" thing is a little weird.

College and other vocational instructors perform some or all of the following duties:

Teach students using a systematic plan of lectures, demonstrations, discussion groups, laboratory work, shop sessions, seminars, case studies, field assignments and independent or group projects

Develop curriculum and prepare teaching materials and outlines for courses

Prepare, administer and mark tests and papers to evaluate students' progress

Advise students on program curricula and career decisions

Provide individualized tutorial or remedial instruction to students who require it

Supervise independent or group projects, field placements, laboratory work or hands-on training

Supervise teaching assistants

May provide consultation services to government, business and other organizations

May serve on committees concerned with matters such as budgets, curriculum revision, and course and diploma requirements.

 

[Anna2013]

You may also consider NOC 4021 College and other vocational instructors. I think its duties better matches your letter, though the "college" thing is a little weird.

I had seen this before. It is for colleges and for vocational trainings. I was a "university" instructor.

I will try the MP today. I am not sure how much help I can get though.

 

[N_O]

You bad bad bad N_O! You crossed my name in the tracker :-( Just to let you know, you lost a valuable member, although a rejected one ;-)

Sorry for that Anna! It is the rules

 

[Anna2013]

I'm so happy that you became hopeful again! I also was not aware of this manual. I did some search. I don't believe that the code is absent, that is what I found...They themselves say it is absent although there is a postdoc title under 4011. Actually, I think that you may find some helpful information in CEC forum. There should be many postdocs applying under CEC.

Thanks my friend. Above you told me I had chosen the wrong code and also a code is absent. I truly appreciate your help. I think we need to be more realistic and fair toward each other; when some of you say something that supports CIC's mistake it is a bit disheartening. Indeed PDF is under NOC 4011.

 

[Anna2013]

Sorry for that Anna! It is the rules

Why did you add my name in the first place? (just kidding ;-))

 

[N_O]

Why did you add my name in the first place? (just kidding ;-))