September 2020 - Citizenship Applicants

[varlam]

well, what you are saying is that there is no point ordering gcms notes, no? then why these notes were introduced at all? was it just for the govt to feel they are doing something?
to me i want to see what exactly is going on with my application. and yes, after receiving first notes, i will order one more, and one more, to see if it is moving or not. if i feel it is not moving i will reach out someone to have it moving, i cant just sit relaxed like nothing happened, we passed a long way till this point to get the citizenship and want to see things moving and things happening, instead of relaxing and having fun
it is up to each individual if they are interested to see more or they are ok to see what is in the online tracker, i am that kind of person who wants to see more.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

i have missed that part, where maybe you already mentioned how to order GCMS from CBSA. Can i ask you to provide few steps how to do so? (i already requested from IRCC), but would like to see what CBSA will provide. what you think about the idea?
thanks in advance,

I wouldn't order again since you've ordered from IRCC. The redactions is mostly in the security section which you've already passed so IMO, you don't have to order again from CBSA now. May be, if you are in a situation where you have to order notes once again, then you can apply from CBSA.

Good luck.

 

[dsanchez]

The notes exist because the gov't is required to have a process to answer FOI requests for most government work. I'm generally against creating more bureaucratic work for the government that has no real value to anyone. It just means more government employees have to take time out to send information that benefits no one and slows the whole process down. The same is true for continually reaching out or calling to check the status of your application.

I'm not saying there's no valid reason for them to exist; for example, if your application was rejected, I'd be all for requesting the notes to find out what happened and if you can appeal.

Did you get useful information in those notes that you wouldn't have gotten by just checking the online tracker?

 

[MrChazz]

The notes exist because the gov't is required to have a process to answer FOI requests for most government work. I'm generally against creating more bureaucratic work for the government that has no real value to anyone. It just means more government employees have to take time out to send information that benefits no one and slows the whole process down. The same is true for continually reaching out or calling to check the status of your application.

I'm not saying there's no valid reason for them to exist; for example, if your application was rejected, I'd be all for requesting the notes to find out what happened and if you can appeal.

Did you get useful information in those notes that you wouldn't have gotten by just checking the online tracker?

Slows down what process? GCMS notes are supplied by ATIP staff, who do such work in relation to several government agencies, and they are not employed by IRCC. In any case, if people find value in repeatedly asking for such notes, that is the right and choice; it is not your place to be a self-appointed regulator of work done by government employees. What you should do if you feel that way is limit your regulation to your own requests.

 

[dsanchez]

It's slowing down the process of whatever those employees have to do that provides a value. Unless someone can explain to me what's in the GCMS notes for in process application that can't be found in the online tracker and is helpful, I believe it's a waste of everyone's time to request them.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

With all due respect, what is the benefit of ordering these GCMS notes while the application is in process? It won't help things get processed any faster and I doubt will show you any useful information beyond what's available in the online portals. Is it just to feel like you're doing something?

It's slowing down the process of whatever those employees have to do that provides a value. Unless someone can explain to me what's in the GCMS notes for in process application that can't be found in the online tracker and is helpful, I believe it's a waste of everyone's time to request them.

For starters, applicants cannot know if their application is rotting in the registry or if it is "Test Ready" without looking at the GCMS notes. Second, the statuses of "Physical Presence" "Language" and "Prohibitions" you see (while it is "In Progress") on the online dashboard isn't always correct.

These status show "In Progress" even when there is no activity in the GCMS system for these statuses. You can only find if the aforementioned segments are truly being worked upon through GCMS notes.

This can also be used to see if you are in line for oath after DM (because the online dashboard will show "Not Started" for oath up until the officer actually invites you for oath. AFAIK, your application is placed into a queue (just like your application is placed in a queue before the test invite can be sent).

The notes exist because the gov't is required to have a process to answer FOI requests for most government work. I'm generally against creating more bureaucratic work for the government that has no real value to anyone. It just means more government employees have to take time out to send information that benefits no one and slows the whole process down.

I'm not saying they're useless; for example, if your application was rejected, I'd be all for requesting the notes to find out what happened and if you can appeal.

Did you get useful information in those notes that you wouldn't have gotten by just checking the online tracker?

It just means more government employees have to take time out to send information that benefits no one and slows the whole process down.

This is a common misconception. The only work of the employees in the ATIP section is to collect information being requested and send responses to the ATIP requests. The officers that process our immigration or citizenship or any other kind of visa applications ARE NOT INVOLVED in extraction or redaction of GCMS notes. Federal organizations have a separate ATIP section within their hierarchy. So, it is not slowing down the process for anyone.

If you don't find value in it, don't apply. That's your opinion and your wish so be it. Others, who want to apply for notes, have every right to do so!

 

[dsanchez]

It just means more government employees have to take time out to send information that benefits no one and slows the whole process down.

This is a common misconception. The only work of the employees in the ATIP section is to collect information being requested and send responses to the ATIP requests. The officers that process our immigration or citizenship or any other kind of visa applications ARE NOT INVOLVED in extraction or redaction of GCMS notes. Federal organizations have a separate ATIP section within their hierarchy. So, it is not slowing down the process for anyone.

If you don't find value in it, don't apply. That's your opinion and your wish so be it. Others, who want to apply for notes, have every right to do so!

Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone's application process ever been improved or sped up by requesting the GCMS notes?

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone's application process ever been improved or sped up by requesting the GCMS notes?

Why do you expect the application to speed up or "improved"? Does it say anywhere you can't apply for notes if your application doesn't speed up or "improve" (whatever that means). I don't understand what your problem is with people exercising their liberty to order notes. "Information" is what we get from notes without any expectation of the application speeding up and some people would like to see that information themselves. Like I already said before, if YOU don't want to apply for it, then don't. If others would like to apply for it, they are well within their right.

 

[varlam]

I wouldn't order again since you've ordered from IRCC. The redactions is mostly in the security section which you've already passed so IMO, you don't have to order again from CBSA now. May be, if you are in a situation where you have to order notes once again, then you can apply from CBSA.

Good luck.

thanks so much, got your point

 

[MrChazz]

It's slowing down the process of whatever those employees have to do that provides a value. Unless someone can explain to me what's in the GCMS notes for in process application that can't be found in the online tracker and is helpful, I believe it's a waste of everyone's time to request them.

Responding to such requests is the job they are hired to provide value in! Some of us who have requested such notes have found them helpful; it is not for you to decide that for us. If you don't find them helpful, that's fine; but don't generalize to others.

 

[MrChazz]

Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone's application process ever been improved or sped up by requesting the GCMS notes?

What makes you think that people order them in order to improve or speed up the process?

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Responding to such requests is the job they are hired to provide value in! Some of us who have requested such notes have found them helpful; it is not for you to decide that for us. If you don't find them helpful, that's fine; but don't generalize to others.

Well, exactly. The OP is just ranting about stuff that doesn't affect him/her in anyway. Weird that people try to decide/control whether others should or shouldn't order GCMS notes.

 

[Nevine.Kassem]

Let me rephrase the question. Has anyone's application process ever been improved or sped up by requesting the GCMS notes?

The purpose of ordering the notes is not to speed up the application. But, sometimes the information that these notes provide lets you know that your application is rotting in their drawers without anyone noticing it, so you send many emails asking for your application to be looked at. And that speeds up the process. So it's not ordering the notes in itself, but what you choose to do with the information that you got from the notes that might speed up your process.

I hope that helps.

 

[dsanchez]

you send many emails asking for your application to be looked at. And that speeds up the process.

Do you honestly believe this is true? Then why not send a hundred emails a day asking for an update on my case? Why not request notes fifty times a day? Why not call every single day and ask for an update, and as soon as I get an answer, call again the next day? I am free to do all of those things and apparently it has no impact on anyone of any sort according to the people in this thread.

As for why I care, there are two reasons.

First, he government is like any other business. They have a budget and resources to allocate. If they have to allocate budget to hire people to deal with these requests, that's budget they can't use for other things like hiring more case evaluation officers. And yes, this is true even if the notes department is not the same as the immigration department. The person answering that request is being paid for by tax dollars, so don't tell me it doesn't affect me.

Second, there are people who would get real value from the answer to a FOI request that have to wait so that citizenship applicants can get an answer that does nothing for them. Let's say, for example, you had your application denied. Definitely a moment where you really would want to see those notes and get an idea what happened so you can plan your next steps. Sorry, there's a thousand impatient people who've requested their in process notes in front of you.

I get as frustrated as anyone with how long the process takes; I've done the PR request, I've done a PR renewal, and I'm in the citizenship process. I'd do anything I felt had a real chance of speeding it up. Requesting these notes does not and I think it's important for people to know that. If you still want to request them, knock yourself out but you're wasting your time and effort as well as someone else's.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Do you honestly believe this is true? Then why not send a hundred emails a day asking for an update on my case? Why not request notes fifty times a day? Why not call every single day and ask for an update, and as soon as I get an answer, call again the next day? I am free to do all of those things and apparently it has no impact on anyone of any sort according to the people in this thread.

As for why I care, there are two reasons.

First, he government is like any other business. They have a budget and resources to allocate. If they have to allocate budget to hire people to deal with these requests, that's budget they can't use for other things like hiring more case evaluation officers. And yes, this is true even if the notes department is not the same as the immigration department. The person answering that request is being paid for by tax dollars, so don't tell me it doesn't affect me.

Second, there are people who would get real value from the answer to a FOI request that have to wait so that citizenship applicants can get an answer that does nothing for them. Let's say, for example, you had your application denied. Definitely a moment where you really would want to see those notes and get an idea what happened so you can plan your next steps. Sorry, there's a thousand impatient people who've requested their in process notes in front of you.

I get as frustrated as anyone with how long the process takes; I've done the PR request, I've done a PR renewal, and I'm in the citizenship process. I'd do anything I felt had a real chance of speeding it up. Requesting these notes does not and I think it's important for people to know that. If you still want to request them, knock yourself out but you're wasting your time and effort as well as someone else's.

OH WELL.....

Do you honestly believe this is true? Then why not send a hundred emails a day asking for an update on my case? Why not request notes fifty times a day? Why not call every single day and ask for an update, and as soon as I get an answer, call again the next day? I am free to do all of those things and apparently it has no impact on anyone of any sort according to the people in this thread.

Applying for notes 50 times a day is dumb and nobody ever suggested that on the forum. In fact, you're the first person to bring that idea up. No one in their right mind will apply for notes 50 times a day or call multiple times every day. Calling IRCC is different - Calls are NOT handled by the ATIP department. Not sure why you brought that up because it is unrelated to the topic we were discussing here (ATIP requests). We were talking about "sane" requests, like applying for GCMS notes once in a couple of months - not sure why you are suggesting alternatives that are insane.

First, he government is like any other business. They have a budget and resources to allocate. If they have to allocate budget to hire people to deal with these requests, that's budget they can't use for other things like hiring more case evaluation officers. And yes, this is true even if the notes department is not the same as the immigration department. The person answering that request is being paid for by tax dollars, so don't tell me it doesn't affect me.

The budget will be allocated for the ATIP department either way. ATIP departments, like I ALREADY MENTIONED, are a part of the hierarchy of most federal government organizations. How do you know IRCC hires less officers to process immigration applications because they had to allocate more budget to the ATIP department? The claim about your tax dollars being used to pay officers in the ATIP department and you are affected because others are applying GCMS notes is beyond ridiculous and laughable. If you have a problem with that, go talk to your MP or try and change the legislature surrounding the rules of who can apply for GCMS notes and when. It is like saying people shouldn't drive more because roads are getting more wear and tear and would require more maintenance so you are concerned about "your" tax dollars there.

I get as frustrated as anyone with how long the process takes; I've done the PR request, I've done a PR renewal, and I'm in the citizenship process. I'd do anything I felt had a real chance of speeding it up. Requesting these notes does not and I think it's important for people to know that. If you still want to request them, knock yourself out but you're wasting your time and effort as well as someone else's.

For the millionth time, NOBODY IS REQUESTING NOTES WITH THE EXPECTATION THAT IT WILL SPEED THE APPLICATION UP. You keep repeating this even though you've been responded to multiple times before that speeding up is NOT why people request notes. Also, for the millionth time, if you do not want to order notes, don't. Nobody is asking you to order them. What is not acceptable is you telling (more like ordering) others not to order notes because you don't approve the reasons behind ordering notes. If others want to order notes, it is their business and their business alone.