+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

Cassiano

Hero Member
Dec 4, 2017
289
78
Hello everyone,

It's incredible ! ... Exactly as I predicted in my initial message, there were indeed many people who came to try to dissuade us IN ALL WAYS from expressing ourselves, and to work together to advance our cause and plan concrete and useful actions.

They do that either with the soft method: By trying to reassure us, and tell us that we must not stress, that everything will be fine as in the world of telletubies, and that we must have blind trust in IRCC who is looking for to find a solution quickly - while this is false, it is simply a question of totally hypotetic speculation ... For example, union of federal employees is very powerful, and will not allow a return to work anytime soon, only work from home (the last note to IRCC employees whose link has already been shared here confirms this), not to mention the other indicators I have already cited which confirm that the situation is serious and will likely last for years to come (and other years still if we do nothing) -, or they do it with the hard method: By telling us that we are not allowed to have human feelings like worrying or having legitimate concerns, or to express ourselves or to consider act any action, which will be useless anyway according to them ... Also those who look down on us, who imply that we are potential cheaters, and who tell us that it is already a privilege to be here, to consider ourselves happy with our situation and to do with it, and to be silent ... Other people who benefit from the deconfinement plans of their provinces, and who can go in person to the service canada office , the post office, and even at the Cinema! ... But who continue to invoke the pandemic to scare us and indefinitely justify the blockage ... (Because it suits them in their interior, we must not lie to ourselves)

Let’s no longer fall into their traps! ... As far as I am concerned, I would no longer respond to the provocations of these negative people, who try to discourage us with counterproductive remarks and not useful for us ... And who are quite simply OFF SUBJECT. Let's be smarter than them, I suggest not to answer them anymore.

The freedoms of speech, expression, and assembly are guaranteed by the supreme law of the country, the charter (or constitution). End of the story. Nothing more to add. We should not dwell on these procedural flaws as the lawyers say.

Back on topic .

I originally created this post to see the possibilities of benefiting from the experience of people trying to move the spousal sponsorship issue forward. Gather as much information as possible on their way of doing things, of federating, and of lobbying ... I collected some useful information:

The first thing I noticed is that these people have created a keyword, a hasstag to get together #prioritizefamilysponsorship , and that they don't hesitate to put it absolutely everywhere to have a maximum of visibility. An example that can be seen here, in an IRCC facebook post that has absolutely nothing to do with sponsorship, all comments include the unifying hasstag. See here:

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/33/5bb5.jpg


What do you think of the relevance of making one? And if agree, which one do you suggest?


Now I will list what can be done in order. This is what I found, do not hesitate to say your opinions and proposals:

- Contact your federal deputies. You have to contact the one in our riding at the federal level. You have here a complete overview of ALL the deputies with their respective contact details (You have to click on the face of the deputies who concern us, then go to the `` contact '' tab to have their phone number and email address)

* Lists of deputies in English: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/search
* The same list in French: https://www.noscommunes.ca/Members/fr/recherche

In this regard, can someone write us a standard form that everyone can use, and of which only the private details of the person sending the email (name, address, telephone, etc.) should be changed?

- Call IRCC customer service to get news (They will certainly just recite a standard text to make you wait, but the more we call, the more it could possibly alert them ... For having already worked in customer support, I know that ALL calls should be logged by the agent in customer file management software. They should write a box for each call based on my experience (reason for call)
Telephone: 1-888-242-2100 (in Canada only)
Automated telephone service (available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week)
If you have a touch-tone telephone you can listen to pre-recorded information about our programs, and check the status of your application.
Client Support Center agents - Monday to Friday, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., your local time, except for statutory holidays. Services are available in French and English.

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/contact-ircc/client-support-centre.html

- Finally, the most important thing and which will have the most visibility and effectiveness in my opinion, is to hold simultaneous demonstrations in front of IRCC offices on the same day ... It will certainly attract the press, and maybe will force IRCC to at least listen and know that we exist ... The number is not important as we have seen in the case of spouses sponsors: A few demonstrators were enough. The power of the media is phenomenal, it should not be underestimated.
I think that ideally we should try to organize this before the first snowfall in the big cities where there is a local IRCC office ... The climate may discourage people from going out.

I am curious to know how the people concerned with spousal sponsorship managed to organize themselves to schedule the demonstrations, and what support or social networks they used effectively? ... Who followed the case and who can we tell more?

Thanks everyone.

, Piotr
you all should go to IRCC
in this blog, you are loosing your time
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
Testing should be scrapped anyway, specially in pandemic.
Just check the documents, make sure people are eligible, and give them oath or even scrap the oath and just give them citizenship.
That's easy. CommonSense. Seriously.

Otherwise people will be stuck waiting months and years without PR Cards, Citizenships, Visas. etc
Might as well tell people to just not bother coming here, shut immigration programs if you (IRCC) cannot handle the load/demands. Why continue to accept piles and piles of files when you cannot process them at all
It’s a choice we all made to emigrate here. It’s not as if they aren’t working on making the process better. If anyone has an urgent need for having citizenship ASAP, there’s a process online for it. A colleague followed through, had her oath and now is on her new job that required it. And no, citizenship shouldn’t just be handed out ...thanks Even the countries we all came from have processes.
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
Hello everyone,

It's incredible ! ... Exactly as I predicted in my initial message, there were indeed many people who came to try to dissuade us IN ALL WAYS from expressing ourselves, and to work together to advance our cause and plan concrete and useful actions.

They do that either with the soft method: By trying to reassure us, and tell us that we must not stress, that everything will be fine as in the world of telletubies, and that we must have blind trust in IRCC who is looking for to find a solution quickly - while this is false, it is simply a question of totally hypotetic speculation ... For example, union of federal employees is very powerful, and will not allow a return to work anytime soon, only work from home (the last note to IRCC employees whose link has already been shared here confirms this), not to mention the other indicators I have already cited which confirm that the situation is serious and will likely last for years to come (and other years still if we do nothing) -, or they do it with the hard method: By telling us that we are not allowed to have human feelings like worrying or having legitimate concerns, or to express ourselves or to consider act any action, which will be useless anyway according to them ... Also those who look down on us, who imply that we are potential cheaters, and who tell us that it is already a privilege to be here, to consider ourselves happy with our situation and to do with it, and to be silent ... Other people who benefit from the deconfinement plans of their provinces, and who can go in person to the service canada office , the post office, and even at the Cinema! ... But who continue to invoke the pandemic to scare us and indefinitely justify the blockage ... (Because it suits them in their interior, we must not lie to ourselves)

Let’s no longer fall into their traps! ... As far as I am concerned, I would no longer respond to the provocations of these negative people, who try to discourage us with counterproductive remarks and not useful for us ... And who are quite simply OFF SUBJECT. Let's be smarter than them, I suggest not to answer them anymore.

The freedoms of speech, expression, and assembly are guaranteed by the supreme law of the country, the charter (or constitution). End of the story. Nothing more to add. We should not dwell on these procedural flaws as the lawyers say.

Back on topic .

I originally created this post to see the possibilities of benefiting from the experience of people trying to move the spousal sponsorship issue forward. Gather as much information as possible on their way of doing things, of federating, and of lobbying ... I collected some useful information:

The first thing I noticed is that these people have created a keyword, a hasstag to get together #prioritizefamilysponsorship , and that they don't hesitate to put it absolutely everywhere to have a maximum of visibility. An example that can be seen here, in an IRCC facebook post that has absolutely nothing to do with sponsorship, all comments include the unifying hasstag. See here:

https://zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=20/33/5bb5.jpg


What do you think of the relevance of making one? And if agree, which one do you suggest?


Now I will list what can be done in order. This is what I found, do not hesitate to say your opinions and proposals:

- Contact your federal deputies. You have to contact the one in our riding at the federal level. You have here a complete overview of ALL the deputies with their respective contact details (You have to click on the face of the deputies who concern us, then go to the `` contact '' tab to have their phone number and email address)

* Lists of deputies in English: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/search
* The same list in French: https://www.noscommunes.ca/Members/fr/recherche

In this regard, can someone write us a standard form that everyone can use, and of which only the private details of the person sending the email (name, address, telephone, etc.) should be changed?

- Call IRCC customer service to get news (They will certainly just recite a standard text to make you wait, but the more we call, the more it could possibly alert them ... For having already worked in customer support, I know that ALL calls should be logged by the agent in customer file management software. They should write a box for each call based on my experience (reason for call)
Telephone: 1-888-242-2100 (in Canada only)
Automated telephone service (available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week)
If you have a touch-tone telephone you can listen to pre-recorded information about our programs, and check the status of your application.
Client Support Center agents - Monday to Friday, 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., your local time, except for statutory holidays. Services are available in French and English.

Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/contact-ircc/client-support-centre.html

- Finally, the most important thing and which will have the most visibility and effectiveness in my opinion, is to hold simultaneous demonstrations in front of IRCC offices on the same day ... It will certainly attract the press, and maybe will force IRCC to at least listen and know that we exist ... The number is not important as we have seen in the case of spouses sponsors: A few demonstrators were enough. The power of the media is phenomenal, it should not be underestimated.
I think that ideally we should try to organize this before the first snowfall in the big cities where there is a local IRCC office ... The climate may discourage people from going out.

I am curious to know how the people concerned with spousal sponsorship managed to organize themselves to schedule the demonstrations, and what support or social networks they used effectively? ... Who followed the case and who can we tell more?

Thanks everyone.

, Piotr
Sorry to burst your bubble but if you were IRCC boss in this covid-period and you had to address 3 important issues in order of priority and economic importance, which would you focus on first?: study permit, family reunification or citizenship? Which would be more important to tackle head on first (note all have serious backlogs).
 
Last edited:

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
So you are advocating that the concept of having exams should be eliminated? Whether proctored or not, any exam is controlled. So why are they controlled?
What is the purpose of an exam? In what way is a non proctored, open book exam controlled?
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
What is the purpose of an exam? In what way is a non proctored, open book exam controlled?
So in order words you want Canada to hand you citizenship without stressing you eh?! Perhaps educational institution should follow Suit too. Great ...go and wait for that time when you will have open book exam for d testing.
 

duckduckgoose

Star Member
Jul 4, 2020
59
29
Would they really force a federal election during an pandemic? I mean at least wait until next year maybe?

PS: I personally don't understand why this thread is turning into arguing again, if people want to protest outside of IRCC offices then all the best to them, as its peaceful and respectful you can pretty much protest anything in Canada. We had people protesting face masks.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
So in order words you want Canada to hand you citizenship without stressing you eh?! Perhaps educational institution should follow Suit too. Great ...go and wait for that time when you will have open book exam for d testing.
I am just asking questions, you are making assumptions instead of answering them. The open book exams I have given (including for Grad level course - yes it already happens!) have been far tougher than closed book. Any monkey can memorize. Open book requires ingesting knowledge and concepts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tazbed

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
It’s a choice we all made to emigrate here. It’s not as if they aren’t working on making the process better. If anyone has an urgent need for having citizenship ASAP, there’s a process online for it. A colleague followed through, had her oath and now is on her new job that required it. And no, citizenship shouldn’t just be handed out ...thanks Even the countries we all came from have processes.
Yes and now its our choice to speak up. There is a process to change processes in this country. It's not some tin pot dictatorship where the subjects bow before the all powerful rulers. Our taxes pay for government's salaries.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
Would they really force a federal election during an pandemic? I mean at least wait until next year maybe?

PS: I personally don't understand why this thread is turning into arguing again, if people want to protest outside of IRCC offices then all the best to them, as its peaceful and respectful you can pretty much protest anything in Canada. We had people protesting face masks.
Conservatives don't care about pandemic if it means a chance to have an election and grab power, but love it if it means immigrants get screwed.
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
Yes and now its our choice to speak up. There is a process to change processes in this country. It's not some tin pot dictatorship where the subjects bow before the all powerful rulers. Our taxes pay for government's salaries.
So follow the process. Process changes still require time, recognizIng the impact Covid had on all processes. So yea bottom line, you still got to do the waiting/patience game we all hate eh!
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
So follow the process. Process changes still require time, recognizIng the impact Covid had on all processes. So yea bottom line, you still got to do the waiting/patience game we all hate eh!
Can do a lot of stuff while waiting. Written to MP, called IRCC, signed petition. I see no harm in doing so. If it doesn't work, so what? No harm in trying.
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
I am just asking questions, you are making assumptions instead of answering them. The open book exams I have given (including for Grad level course - yes it already happens!) have been far tougher than closed book. Any monkey can memorize. Open book requires ingesting knowledge and concepts.
I asked a question which you responded to by asking another. There was a comment about cheating and people focusing on it. And I asked: why are exams taken in controlled environments? Whether proctored or in-person, exams are controlled to prevent cheating while testing your knowledge. The open book you are referring to isn’t applied broadly so I doubt even IRCC would consider such. Reasonable expectation is to pass a test as required today. If that changes by moro and d format, then we take on d new process. Trying to ignore covid-impact on the citizenship process is just setting oneself up for frustrations. No need for that really just wait patiently as they try to put their house in order.
 

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
Can do a lot of stuff while waiting. Written to MP, called IRCC, signed petition. I see no harm in doing so. If it doesn't work, so what? No harm in trying.
Sure do your bit, wait and recognize all processes have been impacted by covid.
 

fr72

Hero Member
Jan 6, 2017
376
253
I asked a question which you responded to by asking another. There was a comment about cheating and people focusing on it. And I asked: why are exams taken in controlled environments? Whether proctored or in-person, exams are controlled to prevent cheating while testing your knowledge. The open book you are referring to isn’t applied broadly so I doubt even IRCC would consider such. Reasonable expectation is to pass a test as required today. If that changes by moro and d format, then we take on d new process. Trying to ignore covid-impact on the citizenship process is just setting oneself up for frustrations. No need for that really just wait patiently as they try to put their house in order.
If everyone keeps quiet and never complains, IRCC will have no motivation to even begin putting their house in order.

I don't believe in inaction and passivity. If everyone had kept quiet after Harper's C-24, then we would still have 2 tier citizenship today. Thank goodness for people who spoke up then!
 
  • Like
Reactions: tazbed

Ladymarie

Star Member
Jul 1, 2020
89
16
If everyone keeps quiet and never complains, IRCC will have no motivation to even begin putting their house in order.

I don't believe in inaction and passivity. If everyone had kept quiet after Harper's C-24, then we would still have 2 tier citizenship today. Thank goodness for people who spoke up then!
You think they aren’t doing anything right now and are just passively waiting for our noises before they start reasoning and implementing? Geez!! Do your bit, go and protest if you want but recognize you are still in for a long wait for new measures/processes to be implemented.