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RQ versus Physical Presence Questionnaires, including CIT 0205

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,279
3,040
It is way too soon to be drawing conclusions about this process.

There are October applicants who have not received AOR yet. Reported test invites are few for all routine applicants who applied in October.

Unfortunately, things like the PPQ-QAE do tend to go off the rails and the risk of a disaster is substantial. BUT it is way, way too early to say that is what is happening.

Have some patience. And share reports. We will see how this goes.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,279
3,040
Hi, I also received this quality exercise letter. A question I have, do you really need to ask CBSA for your exit record? I found on government Canada website about "when not to ask for your travel history from CBSA and one of the cases is when you are applying for Canadian citizenship??? Anybody help me clarify this? Thanks!
Read the requests you received carefully and follow the instructions.

While I do not know the precise requests you received, the odds are high that you are NOT being asked to submit a travel history or record of movement from either Canada or the U.S.

IRCC can access both of these (with the applicant's consent) without the applicant having to obtain and submit them. Thus, if in your application you checked the box giving IRCC consent to access your CBSA travel history, they have access to the CBSA travel history. No need for you to submit that.

The typical PPQ-QAE package, and probably the one you received, asks the applicant to submit "Entry/Exit Record issued by the authorities of you country of citizenship and/or all countries of current or past (permanent or temporary) residence status other than Canada." For emphasis: "other than Canada."




Hi! My husband received this letter as well. In the required documents section, they are asking for:

-Confirmation of employment: letter describing each position held, date of hiring and WORK SCHEDULE.

With regards to WORK SCHEDULE, does this mean to indicate hours of work like 8am - 4pm OR are they asking for his TIMESHEET??

Because if they are asking for timesheet and the company can’t provide it, i’ll just have them write it on the letter with the reason why.

I am no expert and, moreover, I doubt anyone yet knows just what IRCC is expecting applicants to provide.

But my sense is that a letter from the employer verifying the applicant's employment, description of position or work done, start date and end date (as applicable), and a general description of the work schedule ('worked weekends and Mondays, eight hour shifts;' 'worked ten hour shifts four days per week;' or 'worked three to five days per week, usually 25 to 35 hours per week;' or whatever generally describes the schedule) should suffice. Indeed, I suspect many in this situation are going to have some difficulty getting letters from previous employers. So the main thing is to probably provide something from the employer which verifies the employment, roughly affirms the applicant was regularly showing up at work at a location in Canada, with relevant dates. That should be plenty so long as there are no glaring gaps in any of the other information and documentation.
 

Bardia_ffff

Newbie
Dec 19, 2017
5
0
Hi Guys,
hope all is going well. I need some help & advise on my file. I have recently been privileged to randomly select for this beautiful Quality assurance check. Which I have a hard time to believe it is random!!!!!!!. I have crossed the borders between canada & US many times for work & I think that's a reason. Anyhow, I have some trouble with the documents collection. they have asked me to collect :

1-Entry/Exist records :
During my eligibility period, I have traveled & visited following countries. Iran, UAE, Turkey & USA. I could them from USA & IRANIAN authorities but unable to collect it from turkey or UAE for one visit to these countries only. isn't the stamp records on my passport enough? what have you done for these records if you visited any country as a tourist?

2-Provincial territorial health claim: I was living in Quebec & Ontario during my eligibility period. I could ask from Ontario but for Quebec they do not have this form on their website & when I called them they told me that this might take months & months because it is out of their standard procedure ... so can I submit my documents without the records from Quebec, any way they have other tools to check me presence in Canada through my T4 report or employment records

3-Rental Agreement copy: I could provide the copy of all my previous rental agreement except the first one. I don't simply find it & since I have moved to Ontario from Quebec I don't have any access to that landlord. But I have the copy of my previous hydro bills confirming that address is it ok if I submit them instead?

4-Records of employment: I could collect the records from 2015 to now. I'm missing the records between 2012 to 2015. and this is only due to the fact that my employer been sold to other entities & our accounting do not have any more access to previous software .. anyway, they still can check my T4 & see that I WAS WORKING... Do I still need to provide any other paper?.

thanks for your feedback & help

I do hope that no one will have such a terrific experience in their process

regards,
 

GEN. GUDU

Star Member
May 2, 2011
106
8
I have received physical presence questionnaires and my question is that they have written my relevant period five years from the date of my application. But on first page they have written relevant period start from the time you become permanent resident. So as per them relevant period start from Oct 2012 but I become permanent resident on sep 2013.
What to consider bcz I have to provide the details of relevant period.
Provide the answer and proof from sep 2013 when I become PR or full 5 years
 

molin

Full Member
May 2, 2013
28
8
My husband received this as well. It’s asking for the ff:

1. Statement of social assistance
2. Statement of disability assistance

I have already asked the provincial government, the federal government and CRA and no one seems to know where to get it as they keep on giving me each others phone #’s. Please help!
 

molin

Full Member
May 2, 2013
28
8
Read the requests you received carefully and follow the instructions.

While I do not know the precise requests you received, the odds are high that you are NOT being asked to submit a travel history or record of movement from either Canada or the U.S.

IRCC can access both of these (with the applicant's consent) without the applicant having to obtain and submit them. Thus, if in your application you checked the box giving IRCC consent to access your CBSA travel history, they have access to the CBSA travel history. No need for you to submit that.

The typical PPQ-QAE package, and probably the one you received, asks the applicant to submit "Entry/Exit Record issued by the authorities of you country of citizenship and/or all countries of current or past (permanent or temporary) residence status other than Canada." For emphasis: "other than Canada."







I am no expert and, moreover, I doubt anyone yet knows just what IRCC is expecting applicants to provide.

But my sense is that a letter from the employer verifying the applicant's employment, description of position or work done, start date and end date (as applicable), and a general description of the work schedule ('worked weekends and Mondays, eight hour shifts;' 'worked ten hour shifts four days per week;' or 'worked three to five days per week, usually 25 to 35 hours per week;' or whatever generally describes the schedule) should suffice. Indeed, I suspect many in this situation are going to have some difficulty getting letters from previous employers. So the main thing is to probably provide something from the employer which verifies the employment, roughly affirms the applicant was regularly showing up at work at a location in Canada, with relevant dates. That should be plenty so long as there are no glaring gaps in any of the other information and documentation.
Read the requests you received carefully and follow the instructions.

While I do not know the precise requests you received, the odds are high that you are NOT being asked to submit a travel history or record of movement from either Canada or the U.S.

IRCC can access both of these (with the applicant's consent) without the applicant having to obtain and submit them. Thus, if in your application you checked the box giving IRCC consent to access your CBSA travel history, they have access to the CBSA travel history. No need for you to submit that.

The typical PPQ-QAE package, and probably the one you received, asks the applicant to submit "Entry/Exit Record issued by the authorities of you country of citizenship and/or all countries of current or past (permanent or temporary) residence status other than Canada." For emphasis: "other than Canada."







I am no expert and, moreover, I doubt anyone yet knows just what IRCC is expecting applicants to provide.

But my sense is that a letter from the employer verifying the applicant's employment, description of position or work done, start date and end date (as applicable), and a general description of the work schedule ('worked weekends and Mondays, eight hour shifts;' 'worked ten hour shifts four days per week;' or 'worked three to five days per week, usually 25 to 35 hours per week;' or whatever generally describes the schedule) should suffice. Indeed, I suspect many in this situation are going to have some difficulty getting letters from previous employers. So the main thing is to probably provide something from the employer which verifies the employment, roughly affirms the applicant was regularly showing up at work at a location in Canada, with relevant dates. That should be plenty so long as there are no glaring gaps in any of the other information and documentation.
Thanks for responding back. That’s what I figured as well. Furthermore
my husband was asked for this as well. It’s asking for the ff:

1. Statement of social assistance
2. Statement of disability assistance

I have already asked the provincial government, the federal government and CRA and no one seems to know where to get it as they keep on giving me each others phone #’s. Please help!
 

Marooned2

Star Member
May 18, 2017
104
41
Hi Guys,
hope all is going well. I need some help & advise on my file. I have recently been privileged to randomly select for this beautiful Quality assurance check. Which I have a hard time to believe it is random!!!!!!!. I have crossed the borders between canada & US many times for work & I think that's a reason. Anyhow, I have some trouble with the documents collection. they have asked me to collect :

1-Entry/Exist records :
During my eligibility period, I have traveled & visited following countries. Iran, UAE, Turkey & USA. I could them from USA & IRANIAN authorities but unable to collect it from turkey or UAE for one visit to these countries only. isn't the stamp records on my passport enough? what have you done for these records if you visited any country as a tourist?

2-Provincial territorial health claim: I was living in Quebec & Ontario during my eligibility period. I could ask from Ontario but for Quebec they do not have this form on their website & when I called them they told me that this might take months & months because it is out of their standard procedure ... so can I submit my documents without the records from Quebec, any way they have other tools to check me presence in Canada through my T4 report or employment records

3-Rental Agreement copy: I could provide the copy of all my previous rental agreement except the first one. I don't simply find it & since I have moved to Ontario from Quebec I don't have any access to that landlord. But I have the copy of my previous hydro bills confirming that address is it ok if I submit them instead?

4-Records of employment: I could collect the records from 2015 to now. I'm missing the records between 2012 to 2015. and this is only due to the fact that my employer been sold to other entities & our accounting do not have any more access to previous software .. anyway, they still can check my T4 & see that I WAS WORKING... Do I still need to provide any other paper?.

thanks for your feedback & help

I do hope that no one will have such a terrific experience in their process

regards,
The Quebec health claim will take maximum 20 days, won't take months. For other items try to gather as much docs as you can and explain why you cannot provide the rest. For me that Quebec health claim report took the longest, rest took only few days to gather for me, but I had no excuse not to get it. What could I say, I'm too lazy to wait a month?

Unfortunately this thing is not government's fault, the fault lies on people who try to cheat the system. I personally know a friend who left Canada right after PR and came back to apply for citizenship not being present even a single month in Canada after PR. People like them made things hard for us but what can I tell him, it won't look good complaining to him.
 

omerhaha

Star Member
Dec 15, 2017
101
21
The Quebec health claim will take maximum 20 days, won't take months. For other items try to gather as much docs as you can and explain why you cannot provide the rest. For me that Quebec health claim report took the longest, rest took only few days to gather for me, but I had no excuse not to get it. What could I say, I'm too lazy to wait a month?

Unfortunately this thing is not government's fault, the fault lies on people who try to cheat the system. I personally know a friend who left Canada right after PR and came back to apply for citizenship not being present even a single month in Canada after PR. People like them made things hard for us but what can I tell him, it won't look good complaining to him.
Really , did your friend get his citizenship
 

kl_king

Full Member
Oct 20, 2017
26
15
It would be especially helpful for those affected to report being scheduled for the test and interview, if and when that happens of course.
A few people seem to be complaining of not having an update on this yet. I imagine that for many of the people who have been asked for all of this paperwork, myself included, the process of collecting the required forms takes some time. I am intending to submit my initial response to the IRCC today. This is lacking the Entry/Exit records from my home country, which is taking too long to receive and jeopardizing the 60 days to respond requirement. We shall see if that causes further delay.

I would be hugely surprised if there were not at least some delay from this process; it takes time for the applicants to collect this data, and time for review. I would imagine that the IRCC is stating that they are trying to keep the timeline within that published on their website, which is 12 months, rather longer than some lucky people get based on the trackers.
 
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quasar81

Hero Member
Feb 27, 2014
464
52
I would imagine that the IRCC is stating that they are trying to keep the timeline within that published on their website, which is 12 months, rather longer than some lucky people get based on the trackers.
Actually, I believe real world trackers more than IRCC's self-declared good for nothing 12 months(which means nothing in their own world).

Trackers here are reflection of what is really going on, not what IRCC says is going on in their wonder world because they cant even get their call center straight.

truth is that folks who get these random CIT 0205 have been randomly 'scrwd', and have atleast 60 days(actually much much more) days added to their timelines as compared to the lucky one not randomly picked......
 

kl_king

Full Member
Oct 20, 2017
26
15
Actually, I believe real world trackers more than IRCC's self-declared good for nothing 12 months(which means nothing in their own world).

Trackers here are reflection of what is really going on, not what IRCC says is going on in their wonder world because they cant even get their call center straight.

truth is that folks who get these random CIT 0205 have been randomly 'scrwd', and have atleast 60 days(actually much much more) days added to their timelines as compared to the lucky one not randomly picked......
I wasn't particularly saying that the IRCC's tracker is all that accurate. My assumption is just that, if they can process the CIT 0205 applications within their published 12 months they will be happy. This will be regardless of whether every other application is process in 6 or 8. They set the goalposts for what is "not a delay."
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,279
3,040
A few people seem to be complaining of not having an update on this yet. I imagine that for many of the people who have been asked for all of this paperwork, myself included, the process of collecting the required forms takes some time. I am intending to submit my initial response to the IRCC today. This is lacking the Entry/Exit records from my home country, which is taking too long to receive and jeopardizing the 60 days to respond requirement. We shall see if that causes further delay.

I would be hugely surprised if there were not at least some delay from this process; it takes time for the applicants to collect this data, and time for review. I would imagine that the IRCC is stating that they are trying to keep the timeline within that published on their website, which is 12 months, rather longer than some lucky people get based on the trackers.
I concur with your observations.

I am reluctant to guess much about the actual process yet. But I agree there is reason to think that IRCC's probable intention is to keep these PPQ-QAE applications in the routine processing queue, the applicants to be processed in due course along with other applications. But as you note, accomplishing that seems highly unlikely . . . given the time it is going to take applicants to submit even relatively complete responses . . . and given that all that additional information is likely to involve some sort of additional evaluation.

Actually, I believe real world trackers more than IRCC's self-declared good for nothing 12 months(which means nothing in their own world).

Trackers here are reflection of what is really going on, not what IRCC says is going on in their wonder world because they cant even get their call center straight.
Not really.

It is likely that IRCC has received more than 100,000 applications (a conservative estimate, given that at least 40,000 were made in October alone) since the implementation of the 3/5 rule.

While statistically relevant information can sometimes be extrapolated from relatively small samples, that is dependent on how representative the sample is and there is virtually NO evidence that the trackers are based on a representative sample. Indeed, the contrary is readily apparent. Moreover, the sample size itself is smaller than relatively small. It is minute.

If the scores of posts in this forum are much of an example, a high percentage of the reports populating the tracker information derive from individuals who excessively follow their so-called progress. I mean, look at how many are focused on when their application gets IP status, which is utterly useless information for applicants. Some of those represented in the trackers go so far as to make ATIP requests within the first three or four months after applying, which for most is outrageously a waste. And one can hardly keep tabs on the scores who are foolishly telephoning the IRCC help centre. Not exactly bright stars in the sky of prospective citizens.

This is not to totally dismiss personal reports about what is happening in individual applications. Such reports do illuminate what is POSSIBLE (since they indicate what has happened for some individuals) and when there are numerous concurrent reports that can indicate a very ROUGH estimation of what is more likely to happen . . . but way too many put way too much emphasis on the latter, when the odds of that not happening are also very substantial.

It is a bit staggering how many seem to think that what is likely to happen is what will happen. And it is utterly crazy how many will declare what will happen for another applicant based on what happened to them. That is not reality. That is the kind of thinking casinos and bookies exploit to make a lot of money.



In any event, the report that a PPQ-QAE applicant has been scheduled for the test is an important report. If credible, it indicates that IRCC is indeed making an effort to process these applicants in the mainstream routine track. But one report, particularly a second-hand report, is not nearly a reliable source, SO it is imperative to wait to see further reports before even thinking of drawing inferences.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,279
3,040
It should also be noted, IRCC timeline information is also uninformative. This has gotten worse over the years. It was bad enough when CIC moved to reporting a timeline based on how long it took for 80% of "routine" applications to be processed, which typically has had little correlation to how long it has taken the median (half) to be processed, although if prior statistics (when available) are an indication, the 80% timeline was roughly twice as long as the median (50%) timeline (and this rough correlation was true for other types of applications as well, such as the spousal sponsored PR visa application).

What the current timeline information is based on is vague, indefinite, and suggests obfuscation more than illumination. (In the context of some types of application, information based on which applications are actually being worked on, based on date, is informative so long as one recognizes that it could go differently for the individual and those types of applications tend to involve wide variations in timeline from time to time . . . PR card applications for example, for which most applicants who apply at the same time are processed in roughly the same amount of time, but that timeline can vary dramatically for those who apply at a different times.)

Which is to recognize, in contrast, that the anecdotal reports are somewhat informative as they do reflect some real time accounting of what actually happens. BUT again, that barely offers a vague range of what is possible. And very little information about what is likely for any given applicant. And definitely does NOT indicate what will happen to a given applicant. Still, it is good to have an idea about the range of what is possible. Unfortunately, for qualified applicants who are not subject to a non-routine procedure (like the PPQ-QAE or even FP request), the range in timeline between AOR and scheduled test is anytime between two months and twelve months, with some sense that recently it has been within six to eight months . . . BUT given the 100,000 plus applications now in process under the new law, it is totally up-in-the-air whether these recent reports reflect how it will go going forward.