IMG in Canada : How are you surviving?
- Thread starter One chance
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The Federal government will change in less than 2 years. Things are going to be very different..
Either way, you miss the point. This is a country of immigrants, unless one is First Nations or Metis. To tell people not to bother to come is unCanadian. We should welcome people as our national value - to come and help us solve the systemic problems that bedevil us.
The party of the day is the flavor of the day, narrow, populist, and parochial. The country's values are indelible and permanent. To see them undermined in this chat is distressing and needs correction.
Besides, as someone who has studied the political science of this country, I do not think your statement is certain. There is a difficult to displace balance that keeps the liberals in power. How you account for Quebec and BC in your hypothesis is everything. The political outcome of Canada is not just Ontario. As someone living in NS let me be the first to tell you that Ontario is not Canada, it is a part, not the whole... Do you see the conservatives making gains on NDP, the block or the liberals in Quebec or BC? Real question... Or do you get your political nous from the bus stop?
Thank you for your insight. Can you describe your journey as an IMG and the steps you took, where you got residency, how long it took and where are you practicing today and it what field (family, specialist). Do you have your own practice, work in a health clinic or hospital? This will help others in their path to practice in Canada, and you will give them hope.
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I'll summarize what my wife did without giving out too many details. She was a GP, not a specialist; it will be different for specialists.
The Practice Ready Assessment Program has been referred to in this chat before. It is how an IMG can get to work under supervision in Canada immediately with no other requirements. To be eligible for it (and it may still be a pilot in a lot of places with very limited number of slots), the IMG must have done an undergraduate program at a recognized medical school (recognized by IMC) with at least a 2-year internship. Most IMGs do a 1-year internship. For this reason, my wife was not eligible for this program.
This left her with only 2 paths: go into residency, or go back to the last 2 years of undergraduate under a program whose name I forget; maybe it was called clinical observership or something. Both these require the IMG to sit and pass the MCCQI and the NARC exams. For residency, the IMG uses the CARMS process to try and win a slot in a residency program. My wife sat the exams and applied for both programs. The first time she tried, she did not succeed; in her second year, she did for both, and (obviously) chose residency. The difference that made the second application better was that she spent a whole year volunteering as a medical observer in medical clinics and as an interpreter for refugee services; she needed a letter from the provincial health authority to volunteer in these clinics under supervision. The simple act of volunteering, and references, made the difference in her application. It will not be an easy thing for a family or person who needs an income to spend a whole year volunteering. There is a lot of risk and uncertainty with an IMG working to get into these programs - not everyone can absorb the financial risk involved. Students can access really good credit and loans, but people not yet in school cannot, and therefore there is a lot of financial peril involved in the process!!
I hope this is helpful. I'll not disclose anything further as I don't want to dox my own partner or create any unforeseen issues for her.
Good luck!
If you are referring to me I help people immigrate all the time. My only objection is to parent and grandparent immigration given our lack of healthcare resources and our ageing population.Most other countries do not allow parent immigration with access to public healthcare. That isn’t anti-immigrant. If you work in healthcare you would know that the last things Canada can handle is more seniors. I actually defend the need for immigration regularly. It is actually very difficult to get licensed as an IMG. Certainly not impossible but if you want to make sure you practice medicine nobody with knowledge of our healthcare system would recommend coming to a Canada unless you come from a country where you won’t have to repeat your residency. Many people complain as IMGs because they had not realized how difficult it would be to secure a residency. If people want to ensure they practice medicine isn’t it better to know what countries will ensure you can practice? In some specialities there are never available residency spots after the first match. I also usually point out that there is a better chance of securing a residency if you speak French, if you want to become a GP, pathologist, psychiatrist, public health, etc. since these are specialties not favoured by Canadian medical students.
Canada will always need immigration at relatively high levels. We will probably need to cut back on the number of temporary permit holders and especially international students attending colleges with low standard of education that cater to primarily international students. We have an ageing population with low fertility rate so we need immigration.
The amount of practice ready assessment program spots are extremely small and when BC tried to increase the number of spots they couldn’t find enough GPs willing to act as supervisors. Although technically open to more than GPs it is usually only GPs. GPs are already very busy and stressed plus they feel undervalued and underpaid (which is true) so many are not willing to dedicate extra time and take on the increased liability. There are still GPs who want to give back or want to try to find someone to take over their practice but many have grown disenchanted and are anxious to stop practicing as soon as possible. Your wife may have gotten lucky. We no nothing about your backgrounds, where you settled in Canada and whether you have friends and family already in Canada especially in areas of SK or BC where these programs exist. There are tons of stories of IMGs applying for 5 years in a row and not getting selected. Many also have to work during business hours and have a family and children so don’t have the time or luxury of volunteering. Not all physicians want to take on volunteers either. Where you are located and whether you have connections will likely have a big impact on if you can find volunteer opportunities. People can certainly try and I have actually recommended that people aiming to enter the ready to practice assessment move to SK or BC and even live in these underserved communities (especially for BC) before applying for these programs. Still remember a Brazilian GP wanting to live in Toronto with their spouse to do his licensing exams while applying to get selected for the program in SK. Told him to move to SK not Toronto if he wanted the best chance to get selected. Most people are not willing to move to SK or live in smaller communities in SK. If they are married their spouses may not be able to find a job in their field in these areas so there are multiple potential challenges. Many applying for the practice ready assessment programs are applying from Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal not from SK for example.
After reading some more of your posts it appear that you live in NS. NS typically tries to ensure that many of their residency spots and spots in their medical school go to NS resident or at least Maritime residents. Out of desperation NS is really trying to secure doctors especially GPs because they have a hard time attracting doctors while their population that is older than other regions in Canada. Their pay rate compared to other populations is lower which one of the issues. Attracting GPs to more rural regions is always an issue especially if they are married because many spouses need to be in larger centre for their career. With more remote work the ability to attract MDs to more remote locations may get easier. There also has been an influx of new residents since Covid who moved to try and secure less expensive housing. Most newcomers and IMGs don’t settle in the Maritimes so if your Family settled in NS and applied for a residency in NS it would be easier. It still wasn’t enough for your first attempt but the medical community is relatively small in NS so if you volunteered there is a good chance that someone you met would know someone in charge of the residency program which could lead to a higher to a top ranking by the residency program. People in the Maritimes are also very nice and kind and also desperate for more GPs so they may be more flexible when it comes to things like volunteering as an observer. The longer your family remained in NS the more proof you will permanently settle in NS. Many newcomers move over the first few years if they are going to relocate to another city or province. As I have mentioned in many of my posts most of the leftover residency spots are in locations that are not favoured by Canadian medical students. Many of the leftover spots are in provinces that typically not as desirable for Canadian med students like SK, MB and Maritimes plus in more remote locations versus larger cities. Provinces are hoping to retain the doctors they train so if you have proof of being established in a certain region of Canada your chances of being able to secure a residency in the region will likely go up. I would push to see if you could get an in person interview and would stress that you plan on living in the region longterm and that you have already live there for x number of years. Many spouses of physicians have their own career goals so many want to or need to live in larger cities. I have also encountered many IMGs who are only interested in residencies and jobs in larger cities or in commutable distance from larger cities. That also needs to be a consideration when looking at moving to Canada as an IMG. Most newcomers in general want to live in the GTA or metro Vancouver although you can probably add Montreal (would need to know French), Calgary and Ottawa these days. One of the the issues with immigration is that most newcomers are settling in a few areas and not spreading out throughout Canada. Many are determined to live in certain areas like Richmond, Surrey, Brampton and Richmond hill. That pushes up the cost of living in these areas, allows people to avoid integrating in the general Canadian population, makes is possible to avoid learning English or French, creates a lot more competition for jobs and many newcomers are taken advance of by members of their own m diaspora while under the impression they are the ones who will protect them. As you may have seen in my posts I always encourage people to not secure longterm housing until you find employment and to apply throughout Canada and apply to smaller communities not the city you insist on settling in because you may able to find better opportunities in small/mid-sized cities and may have a better chance of securing a job in your field because there is competition than in larger cities. Same goes for IMGs. Much better chance of securing residencies and even volunteer opportunities if in smaller communities. If you are contacted the local Government in a small community indicating that you would like to move there permanently and set up a GP practice the local government will likely help you try and secure a residency in the area if one is still available and help you in any way possible. The longterm small community life is not for everyone but if that is what you want and what works for your family that may help you be able to practice medicine in Canada.
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Immigration in general is not altruistic. Canada needs immigrants to grow especially now because of our ageing population and our low fertility rate and people are coming to Canada because they believe they will have a better life in Canada. Telling an IMG to consider immigrating to a country where you are very likely to practice medicine and without years of delays while there are no guarantees if they come to Canada and it could take years benefits the IMG. Many IMGs don’t have a reason they must be in Canada compared to another country. Most would like to live in a country where they can secure citizenship vs certain countries like in the Middle East where your residency status will always be ties to employment with no chance at securing citizenship. Telling a doctor from India to move to consider moving to the UK vs Canada if they definitely want to keep practicing benefits them because most IMGs can secure a job offer for a position in the UK relatively easily. Most can actually secure a job offer from their home country. Coming to Canada only to leave years later because you haven’t secured a residency does not benefit the IMG or Canada. Some do go to the US and then try to secure a job in Canada if they can. Many specialists actually have problems securing full-time employment and have to leave Canada because they can’t find a job. The wait lists in Canada (except for GPs) has more to do with shortages of non-physician healthcare workers and budget issues.
Not that hard to displace Liberals from power. We have a long history of alternating from Liberal governments to Conservative governments. Like most democracies in the world the longer a party is in power (and its leader) the more they face criticism and the more the accumulate policies that people disagree with. In Canada you can often start off with a majority government, then move to a minority government and eventually you lose the election to another party that often wins with a majority government. Ontario has a huge number of seats and used to have an even large proportion so Ontario does have a significant impact on the outcome of elections. The only way that the conservatives will win is by winning seats in Ontario which is why they are very focused on the suburban GTA area. Quebec also has a significant impact on elections and can change the outcomes of elections. There have been a very large number of prime ministers from Quebec especially in the past 50 years because having a leader from Quebec can lead to securing spots in Quebec and can underline that Quebec is important. Also the reason why some very important cabinets spots are typically from Quebec. For example the Liberals came to power because they were able to secure quite a lot of seats in Quebec. The conservatives/ Pierre Pollievre are trying to secure some seats in Quebec but that is unlikely to happen. The NDP has a very low number of spots and this is probably the first time they have had significant impact on the government because Trudeau needed to try to pass his agenda and wants to avoid calling an election for as long as possible. The NDP know that they are not likely to keep this amount of power and input on policies they currently have if an election is called so they are unlikely to push Trudeau to call an election even if their version of pharmacare isn’t presented as an option. The Liberals are likely to lose seats to other non-PC parties in Quebec. The PCs are likely to pick up more spots in Ontario that were previously Liberal. Actually many of the suburban areas where 1st generation immigrants make up a large proportion of the voting public are turning conservative while Toronto proper is likely to stay Liberal. The Maritimes have such a low number of seats so they don’t have a big impact on election results. Trudeau’s government has become more like the NDP and is progressive when it comes to their social policies but has not been fiscally responsible. Many of the blue Liberals that made up a large proportion of who supports the Liberal government has becomes disillusioned with the Trudeau government but don’t want to vote for PP. The NDP is not a huge player in federal politics especially in most ridings so most will only consider voting Liberal or Conservative. Many may vote against Trudeau and not for PP. Some may not vote not liking any leader although I wouldn’t recommend it. After almost a decade in power it is very common to lose an election because you have picked up too much baggage as a leader. The fact that a lot longterm politicians who held important portfolios announced they would not be running in the next election shows that many Liberals expect that the Liberals will lose the next election. This also allowed more inexperienced caucus members to take on cabinet positions. There is also pressure for Trudeau to step down as the leader of the Liberals. If he loses the next election he would likely step down that night. Behind the scenes people are campaigning to be nominated the next leadership race and people are being recruited to run for the next liberal leadership. Sadly I think PP has a very good chance at securing the the government and it being a majority government. Many living in Canada blame Trudeau for everything and don’t understand that things like inflation are not Trudeau’s fault and he doesn’t control the interest rates. The populist movements that have spread across the world and especially the presence of Trump in the US has pushed many to become much more brazen and empowered when it comes to there conservative views and pushed many conspiracy theories. Forums and news organizations like Fox News have also spread a ton of misinformation and sadly many don’t seek out the truth or look for trustworthy sources. Given the higher cost of living many are facing hard times so it is easy to blame the current government and think that a change in government will change worldwide issues. Sadly that is not the case but many don’t ask for detailed policy information when the party that is not in power campaigns. The conservatives will say that they will be able to fix the housing crisis, for example, but they will not have a detailed longterm realistic plan. They will also be sure to blame Trudeau and neglect to mention that the housing crisis started under Harper.
Housing crises did not exist during the previous Liberal years under Chrétien and Martin?
No if anything housing prices had been flat for or recovering from the previous home price crash.