FSW WORLDWIDE

[iSaidGoodDay]

America forces you to get a Masters for STEM H1B (bachelors H1Bs are very rare) while in Canada a graduate certificate can be enough to get a PR and many times a bachelors is not required for it (Ontario graduate certificate for example). The bar is lower for a PR. The bar even in a sweat shop is high compared to a Canadian PR. A sweat shop consultant is still an engineer even if he is a bad engineer is what I am trying to say.

Fwiw, most PRs are way subpar in quality compared to H1Bs. There is a horrible echochamber here where people who scored CLB9 or even lower assume they are somehow better - most of them have never worked in the US or with H1Bs. As long as CRS isn't rewarding for exceptional pays, outstanding academics, etc - we know the bar is extremely low.

I did french ffs to get my PR, it was lame and unskilled - my next plan to land here through C11 pathway. The latter would've been far more respectable. 90% of us here are the former language->PR route folks. We realistically aren't better than a H1B. American culture shapes and challenge these professionals - they collect world class talent, make it compete based on some of the world's highest productivity standards, and helps you grow with uncertainty. There's a reason why comps are way higher in the US, has less to do with "corporations", more to do with the extremely poor labour productivity in Canada.

 

[seadrag0n]

Fwiw, most PRs are way subpar in quality compared to H1Bs. There is a horrible echochamber here where people who scored CLB9 or even lower assume they are somehow better - most of them have never worked in the US or with H1Bs. As long as CRS isn't rewarding for exceptional pays, outstanding academics, etc - we know the bar is extremely low.

I did french ffs to get my PR, it was lame and unskilled - my next plan to land here through C11 pathway. The latter would've been far more respectable. 90% of us here are the former language->PR route folks. We realistically aren't better than a H1B. American culture shapes and challenge these professionals - they collect world class talent, make it compete based on some of the world's highest productivity standards, and helps you grow with uncertainty. There's a reason why comps are way higher in the US, has less to do with "corporations", more to do with the extremely poor labour productivity in Canada.

H1B workers are so great, they can't even qualify for the low bar Canadian PR.

 

[GandiBaat]

The H1B visa is literally a lottery and a significant number of them go to tech consulting sweat shops, which are filled with subpar tech workers from India. The idea that everyone under a H1B, is highly skilled, is a myth.

FYI, US considers H1Bs as "specialty occupation" and NOT really "highly skilled" occupations. You are confusing it with O-1 visa perhaps.

Reference : https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations

H-1B Specialty Occupations

The occupation requires: Theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge; and Attainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States. The position must also meet one of the following criteria to qualify as a specialty occupation: Bachelor’s or higher degree or its equivalent is normally the minimum entry requirement for the particular position The degree requirement is common to the industry in parallel positions among similar organizations or, in the alternative, the job is so complex or unique that it can be performed only by an individual with a degree The employer normally requires a degree or its equivalent for the position The nature of the specific duties is so specialized and complex that the knowledge required to perform the duties is usually associated with the attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree.* For you to qualify to perform services in a specialty occupation you must meet one of the following criteria: Hold a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university Hold a foreign degree that is the equivalent to a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university Hold an unrestricted state license, registration, or certification that authorizes you to fully practice the specialty occupation and be immediately engaged in that specialty in the state of intended employment Have education, specialized training, and/or progressively responsible experience that is equivalent to the completion of a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree in the specialty occupation, and have recognition of expertise in the specialty through progressively responsible positions directly related to the specialty.**

Notice "Highly" and "Skilled" does not ever feature in this description. They just want to see "speciality" occupation.

 

[tumblewit]

FYI, US considers H1Bs as "specialty occupation" and NOT really "highly skilled" occupations. You are confusing it with O-1 visa perhaps.

Reference : https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations

H-1B Specialty Occupations

The occupation requires: Theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge; and Attainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States. The position must also meet one of the following criteria to qualify as a specialty occupation: Bachelor’s or higher degree or its equivalent is normally the minimum entry requirement for the particular position The degree requirement is common to the industry in parallel positions among similar organizations or, in the alternative, the job is so complex or unique that it can be performed only by an individual with a degree The employer normally requires a degree or its equivalent for the position The nature of the specific duties is so specialized and complex that the knowledge required to perform the duties is usually associated with the attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree.* For you to qualify to perform services in a specialty occupation you must meet one of the following criteria: Hold a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university Hold a foreign degree that is the equivalent to a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university Hold an unrestricted state license, registration, or certification that authorizes you to fully practice the specialty occupation and be immediately engaged in that specialty in the state of intended employment Have education, specialized training, and/or progressively responsible experience that is equivalent to the completion of a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree in the specialty occupation, and have recognition of expertise in the specialty through progressively responsible positions directly related to the specialty.**

Notice "Highly" and "Skilled" does not ever feature in this description. They just want to see "speciality" occupation.

The competition for that visa is so high that at this point they probably only call it a 'lottery' to attract people. Internally there has to be some ranking system. Top graduates I know in US did not have to apply for the lottery more than once.

 

[Impatient Dankaroo]

The competition for that visa is so high that at this point they probably only call it a 'lottery' to attract people. Internally there has to be some ranking system. Top graduates I know in US did not have to apply for the lottery more than once.

Usually all the ivy leaguers get to stay. And anyone in big finance

 

[iSaidGoodDay]

H1B workers are so great, they can't even qualify for the low bar Canadian PR.

I don't think we can say that scoring high on languages makes you more skilled at anything. Hence, my take that most of us are marginally better than lambdas. IELTS or TEF don't define skills, yet they are the only thing that largely control(or controlled) PR. It is good to see very supportive stats from 2022 on better performance of PRs, but that itself isn't sufficient for us to compare ourselves with H1Bs.

 

[GandiBaat]

The competition for that visa is so high that at this point they probably only call it a 'lottery' to attract people. Internally there has to be some ranking system. Top graduates I know in US did not have to apply for the lottery more than once.

Why will USCIS go through so much trouble to do it "internally"? Do you think bureaucrats are policy makers? They are executors and will not put any further effort than needed. If US government WANTS that policy, they will add conditions to H1B. Remember, USCIS will have to also defend their decisions if they are challenged in court. If such details leak out or found out, it will be much bigger trouble for them.

 

[GandiBaat]

Usually all the ivy leaguers get to stay. And anyone in big finance

I have seen enough people from USC stay in US that I do not think there is any kind of merit involved in visa decisions anywhere. USC gives admission to anyone with a pulse and big enough money bag.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

This is a huge myth. Most of these kids are not fooled. They know exactly what’s happening in Canada. They just want to get into Canada by whatever means possible. They know that they won’t qualify for PR so they use diploma mills to enter Canada. I’m sure most of them don’t give a crap about getting a good education either. I have never seen this form of desperation from any other nationality apart from Indians. We are a special breed. I left India years ago so I’m not aware of the economic situation in India but I’m amazed at the fact that despite the news claiming that India has grown significantly, the of Indians are looking

America forces you to get a Masters for STEM H1B (bachelors H1Bs are very rare) while in Canada a graduate certificate can be enough to get a PR and many times a bachelors is not required for it (Ontario graduate certificate for example). The bar is lower for a PR. The bar even in a sweat shop is high compared to a Canadian PR. A sweat shop consultant is still an engineer even if he is a bad engineer is what I am trying to say.

I have no idea where you got this info about all H1B workers being masters graduates. Indian consulting firms like TCS and Infosys send thousands of tech workers to the US every year. Many of them who have subpar language and technical skills. My own brother has worked with them and he’s claimed that a lot of them have garbage communication skills and have difficulty forming emails. They’re literally offered as cheap labour alternatives for American workers. It’s only the FAANG companies who recruit the cream of the crop from India and other countries.

 

[Lord_Tony]

I have no idea where you got this info about all H1B workers being masters graduates. Indian consulting firms like TCS and Infosys send thousands of tech workers to the US every year. Many of them who have subpar language and technical skills. My own brother has worked with them and he’s claimed that a lot of them have garbage communication skills and have difficulty forming emails. They’re literally offered as cheap labour alternatives for American workers. It’s only the FAANG companies who recruit the cream of the crop from India and other countries.

I know a few of the others in this forum have previously corrected you when you were attacking Indians. I take no pleasure in writing against your poor opinion of Indians. As a non Indian working in the Technology consulting field for almost 20 years with 2 BIG4 firm experience, what I can tell you is most US origin technology workers are Sub-par too, the exceptions are most FAANG employees and few others in the cutting edge fields .
Only reason this US origin sub-par workers survive are 1) no need for Visas and employer documentation/legal fees, 2) superior language skills 3)They join within 15 days whereas visa folks are driven by the legal USCIS timelines. So you shouldn't be surprised that sub-par quality Indians are replacing Americans. Those Indians are replacing Americans who are equally inferior I would call it a fair swap. At-least Asians and Africans think and have some IQ and EQ which those Americans don't have, only thing they can do is make racist rants in those forums in FB, Twitter, Quora, Reddit.
The bigger problem you should be concerned is the Tech workers coming to Canada, who are even worse than those in the USA doing low end work. Then after getting Canadian citizenship get TN visa go and replace more Americans.

 

[Lord_Tony]

This is a huge myth. Most of these kids are not fooled. They know exactly what’s happening in Canada. They just want to get into Canada by whatever means possible. They know that they won’t qualify for PR so they use diploma mills to enter Canada. I’m sure most of them don’t give a crap about getting a good education either. I have never seen this form of desperation from any other nationality apart from Indians. Canadian diploma mills have latched onto that fact. We are a special breed. I left India years ago so I’m not aware of the economic situation in India but I’m amazed at the fact that despite the news claiming that India has grown significantly, the youth of India are looking to get out by any means necessary. That’s what Modi should be focusing on. Finding out the cause of this desperation.

I can tell you most South East Asians including Filipinos, Most Africans and lot of the Arabic immigrants are not any different from the Indians you have seen.

 

[Lord_Tony]

The H1B visa is literally a lottery and a significant number of them go to tech consulting sweat shops, which are filled with subpar tech workers from India. The idea that everyone under a H1B, is highly skilled, is a myth.

Yes the outsourcing market screwed the H1B and the L1A/B visas for more than 2 decades now. I heard one of my Pakistani subordinate's who is eager to get a L1B but I don't support his case, he daily grumbles that a lot of 25 year old Indians who get green cards using some loophole in the L1A visa whereas I don't let him migrate.

 

[abhiram.kumar]

I know a few of the others in this forum have previously corrected you when you were attacking Indians. I take no pleasure in writing against your poor opinion of Indians. As a non Indian working in the Technology consulting field for almost 20 years with 2 BIG4 firm experience, what I can tell you is most US origin technology workers are Sub-par too, the exceptions are FAANG and few others in the cutting edge fields . Only reason the others survive are1) no need for Visas and employer documentation/legal fee, 2) superior language skills. So you shouldn't be surprised that sub-par quality Indians are replacing them. Those Indians are replacing Americans who are equally inferior I would call it a fair swap. At-least Asians and Africans think and have some IQ and EQ which those Americans don't have, only thing they can do is make racist rants in those forums in FB, Twitter, Quora, Reddit. The bigger problem you should be concerned is are the Tech workers coming to Canada are even worse than those in the USA doing low end work, after getting Canadian citizenship get TN visa to go and replace more Americans.

You and the others misunderstood my previous statements then. My statements about a specific group of Indians are real facts and not something I pulled out of my butt. You can read about them in news articles online if you don’t believe me. The reality is that the truth hurts and may be offensive to a lot of people. I was just reiterating the point that contrary to what certain nationalistic Indians might try to say, we Indians are the same as every other nationality. We aren’t better nor worse than other groups.

It’s the same for H1B workers as well. There are highly skilled ones who work at FAANG companies and there are subpar ones who work for the sweatshops. You can read all about the sweatshops online. I’m not making things up. Don’t take my word for it. What I find ironical is that you guys are desperate to move to countries like America and then you literally shit on the people who built the country and invited you to work in their country. Calling American technology workers as inferior when they’re the ones who built the organisations you work for, takes the cake. Now, whether the tech workers coming into Canada are subpar is none of my concern and I don’t even believe it’s the truth. It’s just a statement coming out of your mouth.

 

[Lord_Tony]

You and the others misunderstood my previous statements then. My statements about a specific group of Indians are real facts and not something I pulled out of my butt. You can read about them in news articles online if you don’t believe me. The reality is that the truth hurts and may be offensive to a lot of people. I was just reiterating the point that contrary to what certain nationalistic Indians might try to say, we Indians are the same as every other nationality. We aren’t better nor worse than other groups.

It’s the same for H1B workers as well. There are highly skilled ones who work at FAANG companies and there are subpar ones who work for the sweatshops. You can read all about the sweatshops online. I’m not making things up. Don’t take my word for it. What I find ironical is that you guys are desperate to move to countries like America and then you literally shit on the people who built the country and invited you to work in their country. Calling American technology workers as inferior when they’re the ones who built the organisations you work for, takes the cake. Now, whether the tech workers coming into Canada are subpar is none of my concern and I don’t even believe it’s the truth. It’s just a statement coming out of your mouth.

I know very well what you are talking about IT outsourcers, including those in India. We have enough of this problem in the Philippines also. The the term used for Indian IT companies - sweat shops is gross, whoever framed the term unfortunately doesn't know that experience is the same in majority of the IT companies across the world including USA is like that long hours and very ordinary pay and sublime quality of technology work.

On the second topic you are entitled to your opinion, I can very well understand the attitude of some Asians who people respect westerners more. I see that daily in my own family who think Americans are superiors than Filipinos or other Asians and try to preach to others to looks down at ourselves/cultures and praise and look-up at westerners. This behavior is often involuntary and I don't feel it will change. My dad was a mechanic for Americans in the Philippines and still will bend over to please any white man/woman. My uncle moved to USA in the early 80's, even today defends racist behavior of Texans to me, tells me it is their land it is their right right to abuse us...
I trying to move to Australia/Canada doesn't mean I should shut my mouth and not try to call out the inferior / incorrect things in the respective countries or people. All these are a countries have freedom of expression. I needn't tolerate racist behavior or poor quality work done by westerners. I'm not a slave owned by western masters and tow the racist lines of the citizens of the respective countries.

You are wrong on one item though on who built America. It is not the subpar US origin IT workers who built it, It is their hard working forefathers who built it. Most of their forefathers are immigrants themselves. The ones still fueling the growth of USA are the innovators and those who work in R&D, cutting edge STEM etc... not those doing low end jobs in IT which get replaced by H1B/L1A/B immigrants. Yes majority of the American innovators 84% supposedly are those born there. However remember
1) Immigrants even though only 16% of the innovators are even more productive than the American inventors
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-28/us-immigrants-generate-36-of-nation-s-innovation-paper-shows#xj4y7vzkg
yes there will more Jews and Chinese there but still they are immigrants like us.
2) America has a real problem with losing productivity. This is not only in IT but also in every other area. My wife is an agriculturalist she daily talks about American agriculture productivity.
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/07/1126967875/quiet-quitting-productivity-workers-ennui-working-jobs

I don't believe I will change your attitude towards India or Indians but mate I wanted to state some facts here.

 

[GandiBaat]

I know very well what you are talking about IT outsourcers, including those in India. We have enough of this problem in the Philippines also. The the term used for Indian IT companies - sweat shops is gross, whoever framed the term unfortunately doesn't know that experience is the same in majority of the IT companies across the world including USA is like that long hours and very ordinary pay and sublime quality of technology work.

On the second topic you are entitled to your opinion, I can very well understand the attitude of some Asians who people respect westerners more. I see that daily in my own family who think Americans are superiors than Filipinos or other Asians and try to preach to others to looks down at ourselves/cultures and praise and look-up at westerners. This behavior is often involuntary and I don't feel it will change. My dad was a mechanic for Americans in the Philippines and still will bend over to please any white man/woman. My uncle moved to USA in the early 80's, even today defends racist behavior of Texans to me, tells me it is their land it is their right right to abuse us...
I trying to move to Australia/Canada doesn't mean I should shut my mouth and not try to call out the inferior / incorrect things in the respective countries or people. All these are a countries have freedom of expression. I needn't tolerate racist behavior or poor quality work done by westerners. I'm not a slave owned by western masters and tow the racist lines of the citizens of the respective countries.

You are wrong on one item though on who built America. It is not the subpar US origin IT workers who built it, It is their hard working forefathers who built it. Most of their forefathers are immigrants themselves. The ones still fueling the growth of USA are the innovators and those who work in R&D, cutting edge STEM etc... not those doing low end jobs in IT which get replaced by H1B/L1A/B immigrants. Yes majority of the American innovators 84% supposedly are those born there. However remember
1) Immigrants even though only 16% of the innovators are even more productive than the American inventors
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-28/us-immigrants-generate-36-of-nation-s-innovation-paper-shows#xj4y7vzkg
yes there will more Jews and Chinese there but still they are immigrants like us.
2) America has a real problem with losing productivity. This is not only in IT but in every other area. My wife is an Agriculturalist they daily talks about American agriculture productivity.
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/07/1126967875/quiet-quitting-productivity-workers-ennui-working-jobs

I don't believe I will change your attitude towards India or Indians but mate I wanted to state some facts here.

I don't think there is any point to telling him...

He can not tell the difference between "Speciality Profession" and "Highly Skilled".

H1B does not really evaluate skills, it DOES test if the job requires a specialist and if the person applying is a specialist. It also seeks labour condition application. Thats it!