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AndyUK

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Oct 15, 2022
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Hi, pls answer me... I have 2 savings account. One has enough to show POF. Do I still need to show the other one? There's not much money inside and it's not loan account. Just daily expenses account.
Two different immigration lawyers gave me two different answers to this question :D
If you look at IRCC guidelines it says that you should list ALL accounts. And that's what one of the lawyers told me.
The other one said that as long as you can show PoF and other accounts don't impact it (i.e. they're not loans and the sums held in them are not significant) then you don't have to provide the documents.

Are both accounts in the same bank? If yes, then I would provide details of both of them. If not then it's up to you but it's probably better to provide both, especially if you can get the letter/statements relatively easily.
 

GandiBaat

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It's actually a bit strange that in Canada it's easier to get a PR than LMIA. Then, what's the point of LMIA?
PR is bounded. LMIA is unbounded. You can only get these many PRs as per the immigration level of the country (though some folks say it is VERY high right now). LMIA provides an unbounded number of workers in Canadian job market, so the bar will be higher.
 

navinball

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Feb 26, 2018
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PR is bounded. LMIA is unbounded. You can only get these many PRs as per the immigration level of the country (though some folks say it is VERY high right now). LMIA provides an unbounded number of workers in Canadian job market, so the bar will be higher.
Wrong. LMIA is hard because you have to show you are not displacing Canadians or PRs for that job.
 
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ivicts

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PR is bounded. LMIA is unbounded. You can only get these many PRs as per the immigration level of the country (though some folks say it is VERY high right now). LMIA provides an unbounded number of workers in Canadian job market, so the bar will be higher.
Yes but PR offers more benefits than LMIA so it makes sense if getting PR is harder. PR allows to change employers, stay indefinitely in Canada, and receive social benefits. Also, LMIA is meant to protect PR and Canadian citizens from foreigners that can take their jobs. However, those foreigners shortcut this process and become a new PR instead. Seems like a loophole in Canadian immigration... I sometimes feel like the one who is disadvantaged by Canada's immigration program is Canadian-born citizens themselves.
 

iSaidGoodDay

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IRCC has already issued probably ~35K ITA this 3 months alone, at this rate assuming an equal number of ITA for the rest of the year, they will issue ~140K ITA this year. I am not sure how will the math check out.
Also, the CRS actually dropped to 75 during COVID because IRCC was desperate. I am not sure it will not be repeated.
The 481 CRS cutoff might also be the draw that #StopTheFrench because outland applicants can get an ITA without any French at CRS 481, so people will be less likely to learn French and CRS will spiral downwards.
It's actually a bit strange that in Canada it's easier to get a PR than LMIA. Then, what's the point of LMIA?
I agree. LMIA is for people who are talented enough to be paid more than the avg Canada salaries. Most people who are getting PRs are unlikely to ever qualify for a LMIA - that does feel a bit poor. But then again, program rollout at large enterprises and govts aren't fully iterative. These decisions are waterfall in nature, there are costs to be paid for each bad decision.
 
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GandiBaat

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Wrong. LMIA is hard because you have to show you are not displacing Canadians or PRs for that job.
Its one and the same time. Even PRs will ultimately add more people to labour market. The government plans for a certain number to ensure it is inline with economy's requirements (in thoery). TR does not has same planning so a mechanism like LMIA is needed to get an opinion of market.
 

iSaidGoodDay

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I sometimes feel like the one who is disadvantaged by Canada's immigration program is Canadian-born citizens themselves.
Both, yes and no. When it comes to housing, yes. When it comes to a job, no.

If you were born in Canada and know the culture well, someone displacing your from your job is not on PR immigrants. In the world of globalization and the horrible talent pool of Canada, this is going to continue. Today PR, tomorrow AI, incompetent labour won't survive competition regardless.

About housing - immigrants not only do better, but they also hoard multiple properties. Can you blame us for "Not having the life" excuse? This is fine if we do the housing thing in Middle east or South Asia, but in a country suffering from housing crisis - probably not the best thing to do. But at the end, I find myself unable to answer this question "Okay, I'll not hoard any property, but who's going to feed my family if I don't create this safety net?".
 

GandiBaat

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Yes but PR offers more benefits than LMIA so it makes sense if getting PR is harder. PR allows to change employers, stay indefinitely in Canada, and receive social benefits. Also, LMIA is meant to protect PR and Canadian citizens from foreigners that can take their jobs. However, those foreigners shortcut this process and become a new PR instead. Seems like a loophole in Canadian immigration... I sometimes feel like the one who is disadvantaged by Canada's immigration program is Canadian-born citizens themselves.
If Canadian agencies are performing efficiently, they can add an unbounded number of workers in labour market.
PR has a planning and a number behind it. They can not add more than that.

This is why LMIA is there to ensure that TRs in unbounded number does not displace the Canadian workers.

PR will eventually stop once it reaches it limit in that year. They do not process more applications that year.
 
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GandiBaat

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I sometimes feel like the one who is disadvantaged by Canada's immigration program is Canadian-born citizens themselves.
It depends upon which Canadian citizens you are talking about.
The old citizens having land/real estate are very happy with the current situation. They get more value for their land. They get more workers for the services. Their investments in property like condos are giving them rich returns in form of rent. Their benefits get supported by tax generated by increased population. They are indeed happy as hell. There is a reason why Quebec is not revolting like Kashmir or more aptly Tamil Nadu in India does. Canadian immigration system brings money to their old native population.

The one getting short end of the stick is the younger people. Those who are searching for jobs. Those who want to buy their first home. Those who are planning to start a family but do not have a permanent home. Those are having problems and woes.

In Victoria, BC, there are two major neighbourhoods. One is called Oak Bay with old people. They do not want immigrants to live in their neighbourhood. They do not want any change to their neighbourhood's zoning laws. They do however will NEVER turn up for any proposal that says "lets lower the immigration". There is a reason why survey after survey, Canada never says "This immigration is too much". No one is hiding the numbers. The number of young Canadians is not enough to influence these or over all polls.
 
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ivicts

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Both, yes and no. When it comes to housing, yes. When it comes to a job, no.

If you were born in Canada and know the culture well, someone displacing your from your job is not on PR immigrants. In the world of globalization and the horrible talent pool of Canada, this is going to continue. Today PR, tomorrow AI, incompetent labour won't survive competition regardless.

About housing - immigrants not only do better, but they also hoard multiple properties. Can you blame us for "Not having the life" excuse? This is fine if we do the housing thing in Middle east or South Asia, but in a country suffering from housing crisis - probably not the best thing to do. But at the end, I find myself unable to answer this question "Okay, I'll not hoard any property, but who's going to feed my family if I don't create this safety net?".
But what's the benefit of citizenship if someone from outside with slightly better skills can just come and displace you? Are Canadian citizens should at least preferred over foreigners?
 

ivicts

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If Canadian agencies are performing efficiently, they can add an unbounded number of workers in labour market.
PR has a planning and a number behind it. They can not add more than that.

This is why LMIA is there to ensure that TRs in unbounded number does not displace the Canadian workers.

PR will eventually stop once it reaches it limit in that year. They do not process more applications that year.
Getting an LMIA is notoriously difficult, so I am not sure if we can get unbounded numbers of LMIA..
 

GandiBaat

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Getting an LMIA is notoriously difficult, so I am not sure if we can get unbounded numbers of LMIA..
It is now, partially due to backlog of COVID and partially due to high demand for it.
All government services are bad these days including essential ones like health care and passport.
 

iSaidGoodDay

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But what's the benefit of citizenship if someone from outside with slightly better skills can just come and displace you? Are Canadian citizens should at least preferred over foreigners?
The thing is, competition is good and healthy. I think you are severely underestimating the value of ecosystem. I am a scout for a well known VC right now, and the pitches are nothing more than a cheap, unscalable knock off of a Silicon valley product. I'd love to see if this could change. We have very few examples like Vidyard, Klue, etc that are worth talking about and even they aren't as great. Add more resistance to talent and this number would go down further. There's PE money even in this economy and our LPs are up again for June, July - but there are barely any worthy takers.

People who do fodder jobs or have a fodder lifestyle aren't what make a country great.

You are saying that citizens should be above PRs, but isn't that already the case? I mean, look at this case of a friend who's moving to Canada in a few months:
1. No job, rarely any relevant job post in his field
2. No one ready to rent out their place to someone with no rental history
3. No idea of how long it would take for them to get a daycare
4. Paying extremely high Airbnb for months and months
5. Fighting low morale and depleting savings
6. Dumb "Canadian exp" excuse

Even if you got 4/6 of those issues, migrating is already hard. If someone can be replaced by such a disadvantaged immigrant, they got no excuse.
 

wonderbly

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Aug 26, 2020
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Two different immigration lawyers gave me two different answers to this question :D
If you look at IRCC guidelines it says that you should list ALL accounts. And that's what one of the lawyers told me.
The other one said that as long as you can show PoF and other accounts don't impact it (i.e. they're not loans and the sums held in them are not significant) then you don't have to provide the documents.

Are both accounts in the same bank? If yes, then I would provide details of both of them. If not then it's up to you but it's probably better to provide both, especially if you can get the letter/statements relatively easily.
This is risky business. IRCC officers are not the most diligent. Chances are the officer will see the inadequate account first and conclude they don't have enough funds = rejection.

What I have learned is this: DO NOT GIVE IRCC MORE INFORMATION THAN IS NECESSARY.